Beginner needing some advice...

Dec 10, 2010
67
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Fort St. John, BC Canada
#1
Hi All! I'm new to this site and fairly new to the world of aquariums as well. I am looking for some info on what to do with my fish as I think I have screwed up royally, so I will give you some background info... We started out with one male betta one of those half gallon jobbers that they sell that they say are "suitable" for bettas. We bought this back in August and soon I started reasearching our little project and realized how stressed skittles the betta was going to be with the water changes and upgraded him to a 5 gallon tank shortly after. About September/October we then (I'm sure like any tank newbie), thought he was lonely, so my boyfriend and I went off to the local pet store to find him some tank buddies. Hearing that all tetras go well together, and that with a betta we should avoid flowing fins at the risk of him thinking it was another male betta and killing it, we bought some four neon tetras, and two penguin tetras. About a week later three of the four neons were dead, so we went back to the pet store... As we are from a small town in northern BC with only one pet store they were all out of neon tetras, so we bought three zebra danios and one serpae tetra. Soon the fin nipping began, so I went back to the internet to figure out what I had done wrong. Reading that serpae tetras can be agressive when they are the only one I bought another serpae as a buddy for the one existing in the tank. The other day our male betta for some reason kicked the bucket after a water change, not really sure why since the poor guy had been through waaayy worse than that. Perhaps it was his time? Anyways now we are down to two zebra danios, one neon tetra, two penguin tetras, and two serpae tetras. Thinking that our tank looked empty without skittles the betta, I bought four neons after reading that they are unhappy if they are not in schools of at least 6. All of them died within two days from their back fins being ate off by someone. So I am back down to the one original neon tetra. I am now trying to make all the fish "happy" and am not sure what the best way to do this is. I realize that the tank is slighly overcrowded(?) since there are seven fish in a five gallon tank so not room to give the neon the community that it wants so I am willing to buy another larger tank. I have also read that the serpaes can nip at the neons so buying another tank would seperate them. Any suggestions on who can peacefully live with who, and how to make them happy? I am not willing to get rid of any fish, just trying to make them all peacefully coexist. I also don't want to lose any of my existing fish to the initial start up of a new tank. Help?
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
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0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#2
Long story short - I would suggest a minimum of 20 gallons to reduce, remove the aggression from your serapae tetras. You'll probably want to adjust your numbers to reduce the agression.

One site you can use to help keep an eye on your fish numbers is AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor. It's not perfect, but it can give you a general idea of what may or may not work. Remember that fish have individual personalities and may act differently than one another.

Could you tell us how many of what fish are still alive? It was a little confusing of what all is left. We could probably give you a better answer if we knew what you wanted to get in the future as well.

Edit: Oh! And welcome to MFT!
 

Dec 10, 2010
67
0
0
Fort St. John, BC Canada
#3
Sorry I tend to babble alot so it can get confusing! Right now I have...

2x Serpae tetras
2x Zebra danios
2x Penguin tetras
1x Neon tetra

That's quite the site! Thanks! I'm not sure what I'm looking for, I just enjoy to watch the fish when I have time, and right now everyone is hiding in the back of the tank so I don't get to see much for personalities of the fish.
 

Dec 10, 2010
67
0
0
Fort St. John, BC Canada
#4
I guess if they were in schools I would see more of their personalities? I put my current fish in the site you suggested and got about ten warnings about how they should all be in schools of at least five fish and how the penguins and serpaes are too agressive for the neon? So I was thinking of buying two new tanks of 10-20 gallons and putting the penguins and serpaes in a tank and the zebras and the neons in another tank?
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#5
Yep, that sounds about right. Penguins and Serpaes in a 20. Zebras and neons in a 20. As a note, I hear everyone say that keeping neons in groups of at least 10 looks amazing, particularly in a well planted tank with room for them to move.

You do have other options though. If you got rid (I.E. take back to the store, not flush or kill) of your last neon you could get a larger single tank and have room to look into a more diverse tank. There's no law forcing you to keep all your fish now that you have a few tools available for making more educated decisions. Unless it's the principle of the thing. Then by all means enjoy your two 20s.
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#7
The tank has been up since late August Dylan. It's highly unlikely that he's still having problems with the nitrogen cycle. He is, however, colossally overstocked for a five gallon tank.

However, he may end up with cycling deaths if he isn't familiar with it for his new bigger tanks.
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#9
yep, there's something wrong....from nipped fins when serpae tetras go into a feeding frenzy in a 5-gallon tank. She mentioned some of the tails were all bit off.

Edit: The first three neons probably did die to bad water conditions though....rereading things.
 

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Dec 10, 2010
67
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0
Fort St. John, BC Canada
#10
Hi Dylan, I have a Aquatech 5-15 power filter, the heater I'm not exactly sure what it is, it's just a small walmart self regulating heater. I would like to buy an adjustable heater but *sigh* they sell nothing of the sort up here, but the heater seems to be between 76-79 F whenever I check it, which is usually about 5 times a day. As for the ammonia, nitrates ect not too sure. I was going to brave our foot of snow today to try and find something hopefully at the pet store! If not I suppose it will be more ordering online lol. Thanks for all the help both of you, I really appreciate it! Aakaakaak our pet store reaaalllyyy sucks so I kinda feel like sending the poor neon back to the place would be a death sentance, lots of the animals they sell are sick so I worry that it might catch something going back there(?). I'm actually kind of wondering if I shouldn't use the 5 gallon tank as a holding tank for new fish just to make sure that the new fish I buy don't have anything. Or is that a stupid idea? I'd hate for my old fish to get sick somehow from the new ones... So the serpae aggression... Is that just because I have so many fish in one tank? I have noticed that the fins of the penguins are slightly chewed as well. Wondering if all that would go away once I put them in a 20 gallon tank and upped their numbers to 6 to destress them? I would like to fix the overcrowding situation as soon as possible so I think I will go buy at least one 20 gallon tank later today. I know you both mentioned the nitrogen cycle for the old tank. That would be a concern as well for the new 20 gallon tank right? Is there any way to avoid fish death with the setting up of the new tank? Since I am doing 50% water changes per week in the 5 gallon, would it help if during water changes for the old tank I put that old established water into the new 20 gallon? Thanks again! My fish and I thank you!!
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
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0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#11
Hello; The idea of using the 5 gallon tank to quarantine new fish is a good one. I have been doing this for years. It is very distressing to have a tank of healthy fish and introduce disease from a newly purchased fish. I keep new fish in quarantine for at least a week and sometimes longer. My quarantine tank (Q tank)does not have any gravel or sand. I do add some structure if a new fish likes a hiding place ( a generic clay flower pot or some slate from a broken blackboard) and some floating plants. I have a heater , light and some sort of basic filtration (sponge filter or bubble up hang on filter.). I keep some ramshorn snails in as well. I keep the Q tank on the bottom shelf of the stand of one of my tanks. I do drain some water from the community tank above into the Q tank during water changes. I first drain(siphon) water to be discarded from the Q tank into a bucket (During the winter I allow the water to cool down before pouring it out of the bucket so as not to lose the heat I have already paid for.) ( I also use the discard water in my potted plants.) I then siphon water from the community tank into the Q tank to fill it back up. This keeps the water similar to the community tank and as there are few fish, often none, in it over time the water quality seems to be ok. I guess because it is under stocked and the biological processes are at work. At any rate new fish have always done well.
Serpae tetras are very striking and will hang together in a group, but to my eye not exactly in a school. I have kept serpae tetras and zebras together for years. The zebras are too quick for the serpaes and do fine. Zebras do school (in my opinion) and a shoal of them moving together is quite pleasing. I find that zebras can be kept with many more other fish than serapes. Zebras are fast movers and appear to enjoy chasing other fish, but don’t cause damage like the serpae. Four or five zebras will cavort with each other and mostly ignore other fish. Serpaes are fin nippers and will harass other fish, especially slow moving fish with trailing fins. I now have four serapes with some cherry barbs and tiger barbs and cory catfish.
 

lauraf

Superstar Fish
Jan 1, 2010
2,181
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Vancouver, British Columbia
#14
Make sure the test kit is a liquid one - where you add drops of stuff to the vials of test water. The strip test kits are notoriously unreliable. A lot of people on this site like the API tests - here in BC you may also see the Sera brand, which is what I use. You can spring for a huge master test kit if you want, but for now, the three tests you really need are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
 

Dec 10, 2010
67
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0
Fort St. John, BC Canada
#16
So went to the pet store... No dice. All they have are the test strip kits. So I asked them what they use to test their water, and they said they use the liquid test kits. (???) Not sure why they themselves would use the liquid but then not sell it at all?? Long story short they are going to test my water for me on Monday and I apparently will be doing some more online shopping. Sigh... Love northern Canada... :(
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#17
Go to your wal-mart, located here:
96A St & 89th Ave, Fort St John, BC

If you're closer to Dawson go to that Wal-Mart.

Either one should have a liquid test kit. The online store shows two kits. This is the generic version of the API one many of us use:
Walmart.com: Freshwater Master Test Kit: Fish


Edit: OOPS! I got my new people mixed up! TSS and SS are only for brand new tanks with no beneficial bacteria yet.
Also, I would suggest looking for a small bottle of Tetra Safe Start of Seachem Stability to make your cycle process simple. (I'd suggest TSS over SS if you had a choice.)
 

Last edited:
Aug 13, 2010
870
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Sicklerville, NJ
#18
You are Welcome! My name is Mike, my kids Dylan and Andrew make up my screen name Dylandrewsdad...LOL

The water from your tank contains almost no beneficial bacteria, so that water would do you n0 good in the QT tank. Also you should be doing 50% water changes daily until your NitrAtes come down to 0. I QT fish at least 6 weeks if do not know the source (not my LFS) My LFS will not sell fish if there could be any issue, I go about 2-3 weeks if I buy from my LFS (About 90% of my fish come from him!) I always have extra filter media in my filters so when it is time to set up a QT, hospital or nursery tank, I just take some media out and put in a filter on hang it on the tank and POW! Instant cycle!

It sound like you are doing all the right things! Good luck and keep us informed as to what is going on please.

Mike
(AKA Dylandrewsdad)
 

aakaakaak

Superstar Fish
Sep 9, 2010
1,324
0
0
Chesapeake, Virginia
#19
Also, are you going to "Friendly Pets"? The only products I see on their site are New Life Spectrum and Fluval. Considering the pics I've seen I'm going to guess they have a little more than that. I can see in the one pic of their fish room they have a freezer, so you should be able to get frozen bloodworms or whatnot should your tank needs expand. 76 tanks isn't of epic proportions, but it's definitely nothing to sneeze at.