Beginner needing some advice...
- Thread starter Artemis_Psyche
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Hello; Just checked the additional posts and want to follow up a bit. I agree that water from a community tank will not help in a Q-tank untill it is aged ( I believe cycled is the commonly used term on these posts). If I recall correctly, you already have some fish in the 5gal that are doing well except for compatability issues. I guess keeping the fish you have in the 5 gal untill the new tank(s) is/are established is a way to go.
I also like the idea of having filter media with a load of beneficial bacteria that can be quickly moved to a newly set up tank to quickly cycle it. Another post on this site suggested cutting sponge filter media into layer cake slices so that a section can be quickly moved to a new tank. I used to keep a layer of glass marbles in my filters below the replacable filter media and can see how they can be used the same way. I am not sure how to fit marbles into my current power filter, but will work at it a bit and see what I can come up with. Perhaps a bag sewn from plastic window screen material will work.
Keeping new fish from a questionable source in a Q-tank for up to six weeks sounds very safe. I do tend to hold them longer if I am unsure of the source. I will probably go to the two to three week period for all new fish as well. I have often done two weeks in the past.
One other thought. I smell my tanks. Over the years that is a habit I have developed. I cannot post how a healthy tank should smell however. Taking readings with a test kit is a way to get numbers that can be shared in these posts.
I also like the idea of having filter media with a load of beneficial bacteria that can be quickly moved to a newly set up tank to quickly cycle it. Another post on this site suggested cutting sponge filter media into layer cake slices so that a section can be quickly moved to a new tank. I used to keep a layer of glass marbles in my filters below the replacable filter media and can see how they can be used the same way. I am not sure how to fit marbles into my current power filter, but will work at it a bit and see what I can come up with. Perhaps a bag sewn from plastic window screen material will work.
Keeping new fish from a questionable source in a Q-tank for up to six weeks sounds very safe. I do tend to hold them longer if I am unsure of the source. I will probably go to the two to three week period for all new fish as well. I have often done two weeks in the past.
One other thought. I smell my tanks. Over the years that is a habit I have developed. I cannot post how a healthy tank should smell however. Taking readings with a test kit is a way to get numbers that can be shared in these posts.
Wow so many comments! Aakaakaak I checked the Canadian version of the walmart site and I can't get anything of the sorts up like the US version. I looked at the test kit that was on the link, to be honest I've never seen anything like that at our walmart. I will go brave the Christmas crowds again today to have a closer look, but I did go there last night to buy a new 20 gallon tank and didn't see anything. I would order the kit off of the US site, but last time I ordered anything from a store in the US without having them put gift on the package I got charged $40 for "brokerage fees" for a $10 pair of shoes lol; which has slightly tainted my ordering from large companies. The Dawson Creek walmart is 45 mins away and the highways are pretty crap right now from snowing for the last week so not sure if I really want to brave that in my car. As for the Friendly Pets, I have been going there for my fish ect, but they are extremely overembellishing on their website; I had never actually been on it until today lol. The 76 tanks they have (if there are that many which I seriously doubt) are not 76 tanks to fish, but 76 tanks total made up of fish, reptiles, plants, show tanks and arachnids. The large selection of saltwater fish they have, two tanks. Same with their large selection of plants lol. There is no reptile room that I've ever seen unless it's in imagination land lol. They have a couple reptiles but they're in the same room as the fish lol. I actually asked them about buying an adjustable heaters yesterday when I was in there and they figured they had bought the ones for their own shop tanks from walmart lol. They try but they're definitely no petland unfortunatly. I even tried to explain the serpae agresssion to them yesterday and they could wrap their heads around it since their all "community fish". Oh well, small town pet store lol, I guess I should be thankfully that we even have one, although if anyone is interested in a business oppertunity a petland or petsmart would do amazing up here! Anywho, I did buy a new 20 gallon as I said earlier, I needed to vent my pent up feelings toward my serpaes and shopping seemed like the logical choice lol, before they had an unfortunate accident with my toilet. Not sure about setting it up though, I did read about the fishless setting it up, but not sure if I would be able to find ammonia in town? If I set it up would the zebra daions and a betta be hardy enough to survive it? I really don't want to buy sacrificial goldfish since knowing my luck they would all survive and I really don't want goldfish in my tanks... What kinda media are you talking about Mike? Can you dumb it down for me? Are we talking like this stuff? Aquarium Biological Filter Media
This may sound like the dumbest thing ever, but could I change out my filter in my power filter and hang it by some thread in the new 20 gallon tank to get things rolling? I read one site that said putting gravel and decorations from the established tank into the new one can help? But I bought a different color gravel and decorations for the new tank so I didn't really want to do the gravel idea unless there is some easy way to seperate blue gravel from brown gravel lol? By the way the name is very smart!
This may sound like the dumbest thing ever, but could I change out my filter in my power filter and hang it by some thread in the new 20 gallon tank to get things rolling? I read one site that said putting gravel and decorations from the established tank into the new one can help? But I bought a different color gravel and decorations for the new tank so I didn't really want to do the gravel idea unless there is some easy way to seperate blue gravel from brown gravel lol? By the way the name is very smart!
I have a confession... This morning I woke to the two serpaes cornering the other fish in the 5 gallon and taking turns biting at them. I finally lost it and threw the little bleeps into the 20 gallon tank that I had set up last night. I think all the fish in my 5 gallon tank secretly cheered. The two serpaes are now chasing each other around the 20 gallon trying to bite each others fins. I officially give up on serpaes. So much for trying to cycle the new tank without fish.
Hello; You are some distance from a good fish store. I am as well. Here is a method I have used many times over the years. This assumes that the tank does not need to be cleaned. I set up a new tank by first filling it with water to see if it is water tight. If it holds water for a day, I then drain (siphon; do not try to move a tank with water in it.) as much out as possible. (This dillutes any contaminants that may have gotten into the tank over time. You can also give it a rinse if you want.) I then set it on the stand where it is going to stay and level the tank and stand before adding more water. Try to pick a place that will not be damaged by water as the water will spill eventually. (I also put some thing under the stand legs to prevent the legs from pressing into the floor. I have used furniture coasters and empty cat food cans.) Rinse the new gravel and put it in the tank. Fill the tank with water and set up the heater, light and filter. If you do not have the chemicals handy to treat the tap water for chlorine, you can let the tank sit empty of fish for a week with the filter running. This will allow the water company stuff to dissipate. (I keep tap water in containers sitting around for a week or two to use for water changes. I leave the tops open to the air and in warmer weather put a little plug of foam rubber or a cloth held on by a rubber band over the openings to keep the mosquitoes out. I havent used the chemical chlorine treatments in years.) If you can get the chemicals, treat the water as directed BEFORE adding it to a tank with fish.
I almost always have some floating live plants on hand and add some a day or two after filling with water. Plants are not necessary, but I like them and feel that a tank is better off with live plants. After a week or so and assuming that you have not gotten access to a test kit and the ammonia mentioned, there is a way to add fish. The water should look pretty good by then and be fairly clear. If not, it may not be wise to proceed.
Based on what I have read on this forum, you can at this point put some of the water from the established five gallon and perhaps hang the filter medium in some way. (If it is dirty the folks on this forum suggest rinsing it in tank water, not tap water. This does make sense.) You could also put some of the gravel from the five gallon in a porous bag of some sort. Perhaps a bag made from the plastic screen door material, I have used this stuff before. Or just some ornament from the five gallon. I think the idea is to have something from the old tank with beneficial bacteria on it when you add fish.
I will add a single fish such as a zebra (Zebras are hearty and can tolerate a range of water conditions and temperatures. Also you have some zebras.) I like to put the fish in a bag with water from the tank it is in and float the bag in the new tank for enough time that the temperatures are the same or within a couple of degrees. I then open the bag and let a little of the new tank water in. I watch the fish very closely for a while and if all is ok, I add some more. With the mix around 50/50 and the fish doing ok., let it lose and keep an eye on it for a day or two. After that I slowly add a few more fish each day or so.
You must have decent tap water as the fish in the five gallon have done well. Good luck. If you get access to the chemicals and a test kit, I imagine someone on the forum will guide you thru their favorite proceedures.
I almost always have some floating live plants on hand and add some a day or two after filling with water. Plants are not necessary, but I like them and feel that a tank is better off with live plants. After a week or so and assuming that you have not gotten access to a test kit and the ammonia mentioned, there is a way to add fish. The water should look pretty good by then and be fairly clear. If not, it may not be wise to proceed.
Based on what I have read on this forum, you can at this point put some of the water from the established five gallon and perhaps hang the filter medium in some way. (If it is dirty the folks on this forum suggest rinsing it in tank water, not tap water. This does make sense.) You could also put some of the gravel from the five gallon in a porous bag of some sort. Perhaps a bag made from the plastic screen door material, I have used this stuff before. Or just some ornament from the five gallon. I think the idea is to have something from the old tank with beneficial bacteria on it when you add fish.
I will add a single fish such as a zebra (Zebras are hearty and can tolerate a range of water conditions and temperatures. Also you have some zebras.) I like to put the fish in a bag with water from the tank it is in and float the bag in the new tank for enough time that the temperatures are the same or within a couple of degrees. I then open the bag and let a little of the new tank water in. I watch the fish very closely for a while and if all is ok, I add some more. With the mix around 50/50 and the fish doing ok., let it lose and keep an eye on it for a day or two. After that I slowly add a few more fish each day or so.
You must have decent tap water as the fish in the five gallon have done well. Good luck. If you get access to the chemicals and a test kit, I imagine someone on the forum will guide you thru their favorite proceedures.
Yes that is the media I am talking about. But I have heard of people using even clean, unused sponges (no soap or anything of course!)
Because there is virtually no beneficial bacteria in the water itself, adding cycled water to help start a cycle in a new tank will do nothing. No if you have deco or even gravel substrate will help.
Because there is virtually no beneficial bacteria in the water itself, adding cycled water to help start a cycle in a new tank will do nothing. No if you have deco or even gravel substrate will help.
+1 Internets to skjl.
Danios are very cheap and very hearty. But that doesn't really matter much right now. You've put your Serpae Jr. Piranhas in the 20. That's probably your safest move right now.
Yanking the filter media out of the small tank and putting it behind the new filter media in the 20g is pretty much an instant cycle. A very large chunk of the beneficial bacteria gets stored in your filter. You may go through a mini-cycle, but it should be alright.
I'm not sure how it works at Friendly Pets, but most of the smaller stores have big suppliers they order from. Most of the time, if you ask for something they can order it for you. If you were willing to pay them retail for a test kit they get wholesale they've made a guaranteed sale. The one I have down the street will go as far as ordering just about any fish or plant or aquarium part on the market as long as they know I'm going to buy from them. (Currently I need to get a list of plants together for them to order.)
Edit: To add to the water thing. If you're doing a good water change and getting gunk out of the substrate there's plenty of beneficial bacteria rolling around in that. Dirty water change water does work.
Danios are very cheap and very hearty. But that doesn't really matter much right now. You've put your Serpae Jr. Piranhas in the 20. That's probably your safest move right now.
Yanking the filter media out of the small tank and putting it behind the new filter media in the 20g is pretty much an instant cycle. A very large chunk of the beneficial bacteria gets stored in your filter. You may go through a mini-cycle, but it should be alright.
I'm not sure how it works at Friendly Pets, but most of the smaller stores have big suppliers they order from. Most of the time, if you ask for something they can order it for you. If you were willing to pay them retail for a test kit they get wholesale they've made a guaranteed sale. The one I have down the street will go as far as ordering just about any fish or plant or aquarium part on the market as long as they know I'm going to buy from them. (Currently I need to get a list of plants together for them to order.)
Edit: To add to the water thing. If you're doing a good water change and getting gunk out of the substrate there's plenty of beneficial bacteria rolling around in that. Dirty water change water does work.
Cool Aakaakaak! I will ask them tomorrow and see if they will order me in one when I go in to have the water tested in my 5 gallon tank. I'm definitely seeing a need for having a water tester on hand, especially with the multiple tanks starting up. I think the sites are right when they say bettas are a gateway fish lol. I am sightly confused now though... Is dirty water good or bad to put in another tank trying to establish? I'm getting some conflicting opinions on that subject between you and Mike I think! Sorry Skjl I totally wrote that last post wrong. I live in a town with a walmart and a pet store within ten minutes of my house. It's just that for some specialty items, like I guess liquid test kits, they don't have them. The next nearest town (45 minutes away) has a walmart as well, and sometimes they have a different selection of goods, so sometimes if the weather is nice it pays to take a drive to the next nearest city to look for hard to find goods. Both the walmart and the local pet store have a wide range of Nutrafin products, so I have lots of access to water conditioners and medications. That would be pretty sweet though if my water was that clean that I didn't need to add anything to it!
'Dirty' water from a cycled tank will help establish a new one - particularly if you are getting the gunk that is stirred up when you move the substrate around. That plus a used filter and a couple scoopfuls of the established tank's substrate (someone mentioned putting it in some pantyhose, right?) and you will be well on your way.
Good stuff, thanks Laura! I will give that a go tomorrow! Maybe then I'll be able to add a couple more "jr piranhas in training" to the tank to settle down the grumps lol. They've been at each other all day still! Seems like giving the little jerks some room made them even more aggressive. Hopefully bumping up their numbers will settle them down since I'd like to add the penguin tetras eventually!
I bought some extra filter media to put in the old tank today Mike lol, hoping it'll be some help for the next 20 gallon that I set up! How long does it generally tank to be ready to go? Laura, thanks for the offer, that's super nice of you to take time out of your day to help me out in the boonies of northern BC! Good news though! The people that I talked to originally had no idea what they were talking about. I talked to the girl today while I was having the water in the 5 gallon tested, and she pointed out the liquid test kits that were in the back of the shelf... A duh... Apparently you have to ask every staff member in the place to finally get the right answer lol. So I bought the only kit that they had which was the Nutrafin mini master test kit that tests for pH, NH3/NH4, NO3 and NO2 (?). I also bought four new serpae tetras to introduce into the 20 gallon tank to round out the jr piranha club to 6. When I first put the bag in the water one of the original serpas started to nip at the frigging bag... Sigh. But he seems to be slightly making an attempt to shoal with the other 5 when he's not mad at them and chasing them all over the tank... So hopefully someday he will turn out to be a normal socially adjusted fish. Speaking of head case fish, does anyone else have any male bettas that try to challange their power filter? I have a new betta in the 5 gallon that seems to be making it his mission in life to dominate the power filter, think a background might be in order.
When I first got my Bolivian Ram it thought the airstone was a bubble breathing evil monster and would attack it relentlessly. That lasted for almost a week until she realized it was a fun bubble ride instead. Fish are funny sometimes, particularly when they're discovering their environment.
I remember hearing about someone's community betta that did his heroic best to defend his tankmates from algae wafers....or was that a GBR? I forget?
I remember hearing about someone's community betta that did his heroic best to defend his tankmates from algae wafers....or was that a GBR? I forget?
Hello; I had five serpaes in a tank with some cherry barbs and several zebras. They ruled the place until I added ten small tiger barbs around two years ago. Now the serpaes are a bit subdued. They hold their own nicely, but the tigers dominate the tank. Except for the zebras these fish have a lot of red on them. I moved them into a 55 this past summer and have room for more fish but will have to be careful about what I add. I am down to four serpaes and nine tigers and three cherry barb females. Probably some male cherry barbs for sure. The males are very colorful when they are in their breeding colors.