Best Ick Solution
- Thread starter MikeyT615
- Start date
Personally, I always use the salt method (though I haven't had an ich outbreak in a few years...), and it's always worked just fine for me. Never did and damage to plants of salt-sensitive fish. I'd go with 7 teaspoons for your tank.
That tank as a whole isn't going to last long though... it's very overstocked...
That tank as a whole isn't going to last long though... it's very overstocked...
I also used the salt method. You can use ordinary table salt or aquarium salt for freshwater (be sure it isn't for marine tanks).
And as to the overstocking part...
If every fish in there was only an inch long, you would be overstocked. Since the average fish you listed is around 3" long, the population you have would overstock a 29 gallon.
And as to the overstocking part...
If every fish in there was only an inch long, you would be overstocked. Since the average fish you listed is around 3" long, the population you have would overstock a 29 gallon.
? about salt treatment
Turbine (or anyone that knows),
How long after using salt should I see results? I just used 11 teaspoons of salt for my 55g tank (as directed on salt box...1 tsp/5g). I also raised the temp to 80 F.
Now, 24 hrs later, it looks like the ich has doubled on my fish. Do you think I should add more salt or just be patient and wait? I don't want to wait too long before this gets out of hand. I bought some Rid Ich (malachite green and formalin) at the LFS yesterday. I will use it if the salt doesn't work. Do you know if I can mix the two?
Also, I'm running the filter with activated carbon. This shouldn't have any effect with salt should it (I know it will with other meds)?
I know ich has a life cycle that it follows...but I didn't know if the darned buggers would immediately fall off of the fish after including the salt.
Turbine (or anyone that knows),
How long after using salt should I see results? I just used 11 teaspoons of salt for my 55g tank (as directed on salt box...1 tsp/5g). I also raised the temp to 80 F.
Now, 24 hrs later, it looks like the ich has doubled on my fish. Do you think I should add more salt or just be patient and wait? I don't want to wait too long before this gets out of hand. I bought some Rid Ich (malachite green and formalin) at the LFS yesterday. I will use it if the salt doesn't work. Do you know if I can mix the two?
Also, I'm running the filter with activated carbon. This shouldn't have any effect with salt should it (I know it will with other meds)?
I know ich has a life cycle that it follows...but I didn't know if the darned buggers would immediately fall off of the fish after including the salt.
comment and question on ick
my 10 gal goldfish tank has had ick for 2 weeks now. Ive used
both treatments, salt and the ick clear. It appears to be fading somewhat, but they still cant shake it. The blood vessels in ones tail is horrific, but the white dots are fading. The ick clear seemed to work better for mine for some reason. I thought i put them in to much salt because they started jerking so i took them out. Salt seemed to mess them up for some reason. NOW, to my question, already started tank over completly and let sit for 2 days and added the fish back, will it go away or am i looking at a whole new cycle starting?
my 10 gal goldfish tank has had ick for 2 weeks now. Ive used
both treatments, salt and the ick clear. It appears to be fading somewhat, but they still cant shake it. The blood vessels in ones tail is horrific, but the white dots are fading. The ick clear seemed to work better for mine for some reason. I thought i put them in to much salt because they started jerking so i took them out. Salt seemed to mess them up for some reason. NOW, to my question, already started tank over completly and let sit for 2 days and added the fish back, will it go away or am i looking at a whole new cycle starting?
Bama-
I used 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, although I have read to use as much as 3 teaspoons (1 Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons) per gallon. I also raised my temperature to 85 degrees. This speeds up the life cycle and may also help to kill the free-swimming tomites. If you do raise the temperature, keep an eye out for signs of oxygen deficiency (fish gasping at the surface--except bettas or gouramis, they do this anyway). You might need to add an airstone. Salt can be used in conjunction with other medications, although I prefer not to use meds if at all possible. Carbon won't remove salt, only water changes will. Carbon will remove medications, however, so it should be removed before using this treatment option.
The cysts will usually disappear within a few days, not immediately. Some cysts were probably just forming and were too small to see. That is why there seems to be more of them. As I already said, increasing the temperature will speed up this cycle time. The number of cysts may seem to increase before it decreases.
Here is a useful link:
http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html
chkn_hawk-
I'm not sure what you are saying here: Did you completely strip the tank down, clean the gravel, etc? If so, you will at least have a mini-cycle, possibly worse. And since you are re-introducing fish that are infected, you are re-infecting the tank. The best course of action is to treat the tank with the fish in it to wipe out the ich.
I used 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, although I have read to use as much as 3 teaspoons (1 Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons) per gallon. I also raised my temperature to 85 degrees. This speeds up the life cycle and may also help to kill the free-swimming tomites. If you do raise the temperature, keep an eye out for signs of oxygen deficiency (fish gasping at the surface--except bettas or gouramis, they do this anyway). You might need to add an airstone. Salt can be used in conjunction with other medications, although I prefer not to use meds if at all possible. Carbon won't remove salt, only water changes will. Carbon will remove medications, however, so it should be removed before using this treatment option.
The cysts will usually disappear within a few days, not immediately. Some cysts were probably just forming and were too small to see. That is why there seems to be more of them. As I already said, increasing the temperature will speed up this cycle time. The number of cysts may seem to increase before it decreases.
Here is a useful link:
http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html
chkn_hawk-
I'm not sure what you are saying here: Did you completely strip the tank down, clean the gravel, etc? If so, you will at least have a mini-cycle, possibly worse. And since you are re-introducing fish that are infected, you are re-infecting the tank. The best course of action is to treat the tank with the fish in it to wipe out the ich.
new treatment
Fish have been laying at the bottom of the tank for 3 days now and wont even budge. Food or anything. Started treating them with ick away with that m. green stuff. just started tying it and they didnt even move. Willmas eyes are completly covered, and the very tip of the tail. Fred is better as far as how he looks, but not moving from the bottom. Im not sure what do for them anymore.
Fish have been laying at the bottom of the tank for 3 days now and wont even budge. Food or anything. Started treating them with ick away with that m. green stuff. just started tying it and they didnt even move. Willmas eyes are completly covered, and the very tip of the tail. Fred is better as far as how he looks, but not moving from the bottom. Im not sure what do for them anymore.
chkn_hawk23, how many goldies do you have in that 10g, and how big are they?
What's your water change schedule like, what are your ammonia and nitrite levels? If the fish are weak stressed, no amount of meds is going to cure them.
Ich that bad generally has a cause (usually high ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates).
What's your water change schedule like, what are your ammonia and nitrite levels? If the fish are weak stressed, no amount of meds is going to cure them.
Ich that bad generally has a cause (usually high ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates).
Good catch, Josh. I missed that.
As JWright said (and is also mentioned in the link I posted above), ich infestation is usually brought on by something wrong with the aquarium that stresses the fish. It's the same as with people and common diseases. Whenever we are unduly stressed, our immune system becomes weaker, and we get sick.
Some of the things that can cause an outbreak include high ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, or swings in temperature or pH.
As JWright said (and is also mentioned in the link I posted above), ich infestation is usually brought on by something wrong with the aquarium that stresses the fish. It's the same as with people and common diseases. Whenever we are unduly stressed, our immune system becomes weaker, and we get sick.
Some of the things that can cause an outbreak include high ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, or swings in temperature or pH.
humm
ok, i have 2 fancy goldfish in my 10 gallon. 1 medium black mollie and 1 big fancy? I change water every 2 weeks. Everything the same on the 5 test strips i use, nitrite, nitrate, hardness, alkalinity, and ph test stips. every reading is almost always the same. I completly striped the tank, steralizing gravel, tank, access. filter and everything. Set back up the tank and let cycle for a few days. and then move the fish back home from the quar. tank. now they are layin on bottom for days and wont move. its hard to raise temp. because i dont have a heater. i thought they were getting better in the quar. tank and i put them back in there home and now they seem even worse. almost all the white spots are gone, but film is covering my black mollies eyes. they have been sick for close to 3 weeks. there nitrates and nitrites are safe, as far as ammonia im not sure, i dont have the test strips for it, but i do have a 5-15 filter and an undergravel filter on it. i dont you if you can understand my randomness in these messages or not, but my water is usually always clean and i do my water changes right on schedual, always. but they just seem really stressed now. im going to print the articles you suggested and research them tonight at home. thankyou eveyone for being patient with me and helping me understand. thanks.
ok, i have 2 fancy goldfish in my 10 gallon. 1 medium black mollie and 1 big fancy? I change water every 2 weeks. Everything the same on the 5 test strips i use, nitrite, nitrate, hardness, alkalinity, and ph test stips. every reading is almost always the same. I completly striped the tank, steralizing gravel, tank, access. filter and everything. Set back up the tank and let cycle for a few days. and then move the fish back home from the quar. tank. now they are layin on bottom for days and wont move. its hard to raise temp. because i dont have a heater. i thought they were getting better in the quar. tank and i put them back in there home and now they seem even worse. almost all the white spots are gone, but film is covering my black mollies eyes. they have been sick for close to 3 weeks. there nitrates and nitrites are safe, as far as ammonia im not sure, i dont have the test strips for it, but i do have a 5-15 filter and an undergravel filter on it. i dont you if you can understand my randomness in these messages or not, but my water is usually always clean and i do my water changes right on schedual, always. but they just seem really stressed now. im going to print the articles you suggested and research them tonight at home. thankyou eveyone for being patient with me and helping me understand. thanks.
The way you describe it, it sounds more like a bacterial or fungal infection than ich. Ich looks like white grains of salt stuck to the fish. The fish often scratch against ornaments or gravel (often called flashing).
If you tore down and sterilized your gravel, more than likely you also wiped out your nitrifying bacteria. Your ammonia level is probably through the roof, especially with 2 goldfish in a small tank.
Right now, I'm at a loss about what to suggest. It could be ammonia poisoning. It could be any number of other things. My gut tells me to try doing 50% water changes daily for a few days (make sure to use de-chlorinator) and see if they start to pick up. You might also want to get liquid test kits (at least ammonia for now). I know the strips are a lot easier, but they are less accurate.
If they seemed to be doing better in their quarentine tank, what is different about that tank than their normal home? Answering that might be key to understanding what is going on here.
I would also be glad to hear what others might suggest here.
If you tore down and sterilized your gravel, more than likely you also wiped out your nitrifying bacteria. Your ammonia level is probably through the roof, especially with 2 goldfish in a small tank.
Right now, I'm at a loss about what to suggest. It could be ammonia poisoning. It could be any number of other things. My gut tells me to try doing 50% water changes daily for a few days (make sure to use de-chlorinator) and see if they start to pick up. You might also want to get liquid test kits (at least ammonia for now). I know the strips are a lot easier, but they are less accurate.
If they seemed to be doing better in their quarentine tank, what is different about that tank than their normal home? Answering that might be key to understanding what is going on here.
I would also be glad to hear what others might suggest here.
Im starting to think the same thing, when i turned on there light this morning i saw long clear like tubes floating around and then they went away. i thought it was poop, but they havent been eating. It started out as ich anyway, but now im not sure what it is. i read the information from that web site last night and it made me feel better about using that green chemicle. im following the dosage for it now.
ill have to get the ammonia kit next week unfortunatly! Payday is a long ways away. but i will definatly take your advice on the kits.
there quar. tank was a 5 gallon and didnt have a filter, just an airstone. they moved around and actually came up to eat this morning and i was jumping for joy, so i repeated the green treatment. That seemed to do it, or at least get them up off the bottom. im sorry to be such a bother about it. but thank you so much for you concern and comments. i think this might be the treatment that heals them, or at least i hope. but thankyou so much for the help. its greatly appriciated by fred and willma and myself.
ill have to get the ammonia kit next week unfortunatly! Payday is a long ways away. but i will definatly take your advice on the kits.
there quar. tank was a 5 gallon and didnt have a filter, just an airstone. they moved around and actually came up to eat this morning and i was jumping for joy, so i repeated the green treatment. That seemed to do it, or at least get them up off the bottom. im sorry to be such a bother about it. but thank you so much for you concern and comments. i think this might be the treatment that heals them, or at least i hope. but thankyou so much for the help. its greatly appriciated by fred and willma and myself.
i belive the enemy is now fungus. i was reading on one of the other threads and its fuzzy now, not the spot. im such an amature at this. I do have the fungus tablets, but would it be safe to use after i just got finished using that green stuff that close together? i just treated it yesterday and today. 50% water changes before dosing again. I hate to mess them up using so many different things.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), I haven't had to deal with very many diseases.
That being said, I think I may be on the road to understanding what is going on here. Here is my guess:
The ich came on first because of poor water conditions. Goldfish excrete an awful lot and their tank is too small for them. I'm not sure what your exact regimen is, but I'm pretty sure there has always been measurable ammonia in there. The ich pretty much cleared up, but because of water conditions and their weakened state, they got a secondary bacterial infection. This has now been complicated by a fungal infection (which is often a secondary infection to a bacterial one).
I think the best course of action would be to do your next 50% water change, except instead of dosing again with the ich stuff (by the way, what brand are you using?), to start with the fungus tablets (are they these?).
That might buy you a little time, but what your little guys really need is a bigger home. I understand the financial end of things, but I'm afraid that this will keep happenning in that small tank of theirs.
I'll also PM someone who might not have seen this thread and see if he has anything to add.
That being said, I think I may be on the road to understanding what is going on here. Here is my guess:
The ich came on first because of poor water conditions. Goldfish excrete an awful lot and their tank is too small for them. I'm not sure what your exact regimen is, but I'm pretty sure there has always been measurable ammonia in there. The ich pretty much cleared up, but because of water conditions and their weakened state, they got a secondary bacterial infection. This has now been complicated by a fungal infection (which is often a secondary infection to a bacterial one).
I think the best course of action would be to do your next 50% water change, except instead of dosing again with the ich stuff (by the way, what brand are you using?), to start with the fungus tablets (are they these?).
That might buy you a little time, but what your little guys really need is a bigger home. I understand the financial end of things, but I'm afraid that this will keep happenning in that small tank of theirs.
I'll also PM someone who might not have seen this thread and see if he has anything to add.
Hmmm.....haven’t followed this thread too closely as I thought it was about Ich - but it seems to have got complicated so I’ll get stuck in now......
The “rights and wrongs” of how you’re running your tank I’ll address in a bit, but first things first........
The water quality in your tank has caused a few diseases to get a hold of your fish and multiply. It sounds like they have all happened pretty simultaneously, but the Ich was the first to become visible. Second place goes to the bacterial infection that is still killing them, and third place goes to the fungal infection you have already noticed.
Malachite Green et al, is pretty good at clearing up the Ich and the fungus, but absolutely crap at dealing with bacterial infections, which is why your fish are still sick.
I quote the following link.....
“It is important to realise that in most cases, fungal infections of fish are secondary infections and unless the primary infection - quite often bacterial - is resolved then anti-fungal treatments such as malachite are unlikely to be successful”.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm
The Jungle labs meds and the Malachite Green will have done a sufficient enough job on the Ich and the fungus for you to stop using them at this point and give the fish a break. If you haven’t used the jungle Labs stuff yet then hold off on that while I explain why........
The malachite green will have sorted out the Ich and the worst of the fungus, but it’s the bacterial infection you need to deal with. As most Bacterial meds also treat for fungus at the same time, it’s pointless using two types, and they don’t all mix well. As you have to get an anti-bacterial med anyway, find one that says it does both bacterial and fungal, and only use that one. Giving the fish a 24 hour break between meds is always recommended (as is a 50% water change to get rid of the old meds). You’ll need to treat the whole tank and not just the affected fish as it’s your tank that’s the real problem here.
So - stop meds now - carbon out - 50% water change - wait 24 hrs then new combined anti-bac and fungal meds in. As this has been going on for 3 weeks already, I would suggest you do this pretty quick or you’ll (probably) lose the lot.
(Never run carbon in your filter with meds - the carbon takes the meds out).
OK - I’m going to post this up first then get onto the subject of your tank.......
The “rights and wrongs” of how you’re running your tank I’ll address in a bit, but first things first........
The water quality in your tank has caused a few diseases to get a hold of your fish and multiply. It sounds like they have all happened pretty simultaneously, but the Ich was the first to become visible. Second place goes to the bacterial infection that is still killing them, and third place goes to the fungal infection you have already noticed.
Malachite Green et al, is pretty good at clearing up the Ich and the fungus, but absolutely crap at dealing with bacterial infections, which is why your fish are still sick.
I quote the following link.....
“It is important to realise that in most cases, fungal infections of fish are secondary infections and unless the primary infection - quite often bacterial - is resolved then anti-fungal treatments such as malachite are unlikely to be successful”.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm
The Jungle labs meds and the Malachite Green will have done a sufficient enough job on the Ich and the fungus for you to stop using them at this point and give the fish a break. If you haven’t used the jungle Labs stuff yet then hold off on that while I explain why........
The malachite green will have sorted out the Ich and the worst of the fungus, but it’s the bacterial infection you need to deal with. As most Bacterial meds also treat for fungus at the same time, it’s pointless using two types, and they don’t all mix well. As you have to get an anti-bacterial med anyway, find one that says it does both bacterial and fungal, and only use that one. Giving the fish a 24 hour break between meds is always recommended (as is a 50% water change to get rid of the old meds). You’ll need to treat the whole tank and not just the affected fish as it’s your tank that’s the real problem here.
So - stop meds now - carbon out - 50% water change - wait 24 hrs then new combined anti-bac and fungal meds in. As this has been going on for 3 weeks already, I would suggest you do this pretty quick or you’ll (probably) lose the lot.
(Never run carbon in your filter with meds - the carbon takes the meds out).
OK - I’m going to post this up first then get onto the subject of your tank.......
Right - on to the reasons your fish are sick in the first place.
The “one inch of fish per gallon” rule only works for guppies and neons. Once you start getting fish over an inch long, the rule goes in the bin. If you don’t believe me, try fitting a 48 inch fish into a 48 gallon (4ft) tank.
So - as you have been repeatedly told (and denied) - you are over stocked. Typical symptoms of an over stocked tank are Ich - fungus - bacterial infections - and dying fish. Still don’t believe me? - take a look at your fish - they have Ich - fungus - bacterial infections - and they are dying. That 10 gal of yours wouldn’t be enough for the Pl*co on its own, let alone the others.
Next up is the heat range incompatibility. The Mollies need to be at at least 76F, so does the Pl*co - the rest should be ok at 70F to 80F, so 76F to 78F is your target temperature. This means you should be running a tropical set-up, not a cold water one. Without a heater you cannot reliably do that, so put one on your shopping list.
The next BIG problem you are about to encounter is cycling your tank. Cycling a tank with fish in it is always a tricky proposition, but as you are so overstocked in there it’s going to be even more of a nightmare. Other than trying to find some ‘Bio-Spira’ or used filter media from a cycled tank, all you can do is frequent water changes every time you get a reading for Ammonia or Nitrite that’s near the danger level. Easing up dramatically on the amount of food you put in the tank would help to keep waste levels down a bit, but remember your fish are weak as it is, so don’t starve them too much.
If you could take some of the fish back to the shop now, it would help both with the overstock and the new cycle, and also prevent a repetition of this episode. Alternatively, as some of your fish (inevitably) die during the oncoming cycle - simply don’t replace them.
BUT - whatever you decide - that Pl*co has to come out of such a small tank. It will grow to around a foot long (mine grow to 2 feet).
Right - I’m done. Don’t take any of the above as me being nasty - I went through the same thing when I started out, and everyone here told me I was horribly overstocked too. The important thing is to take the advice and learn from the experience - the worst thing you can do is to deny there is a problem at all, while your fish are dying around you.
Welcome to the tank.
The “one inch of fish per gallon” rule only works for guppies and neons. Once you start getting fish over an inch long, the rule goes in the bin. If you don’t believe me, try fitting a 48 inch fish into a 48 gallon (4ft) tank.
So - as you have been repeatedly told (and denied) - you are over stocked. Typical symptoms of an over stocked tank are Ich - fungus - bacterial infections - and dying fish. Still don’t believe me? - take a look at your fish - they have Ich - fungus - bacterial infections - and they are dying. That 10 gal of yours wouldn’t be enough for the Pl*co on its own, let alone the others.
Next up is the heat range incompatibility. The Mollies need to be at at least 76F, so does the Pl*co - the rest should be ok at 70F to 80F, so 76F to 78F is your target temperature. This means you should be running a tropical set-up, not a cold water one. Without a heater you cannot reliably do that, so put one on your shopping list.
The next BIG problem you are about to encounter is cycling your tank. Cycling a tank with fish in it is always a tricky proposition, but as you are so overstocked in there it’s going to be even more of a nightmare. Other than trying to find some ‘Bio-Spira’ or used filter media from a cycled tank, all you can do is frequent water changes every time you get a reading for Ammonia or Nitrite that’s near the danger level. Easing up dramatically on the amount of food you put in the tank would help to keep waste levels down a bit, but remember your fish are weak as it is, so don’t starve them too much.
If you could take some of the fish back to the shop now, it would help both with the overstock and the new cycle, and also prevent a repetition of this episode. Alternatively, as some of your fish (inevitably) die during the oncoming cycle - simply don’t replace them.
BUT - whatever you decide - that Pl*co has to come out of such a small tank. It will grow to around a foot long (mine grow to 2 feet).
Right - I’m done. Don’t take any of the above as me being nasty - I went through the same thing when I started out, and everyone here told me I was horribly overstocked too. The important thing is to take the advice and learn from the experience - the worst thing you can do is to deny there is a problem at all, while your fish are dying around you.
Welcome to the tank.
Thanks
ok, i belive your right. I have a 55 gal. on standby but dont have any filters or a hood or even lights yet. it came with an undergravel filter. Problem there, i got it for my 4 feeder goldfish, and then im going to move the 2 fancy to the 20 gal. But i dont think it will be big enough. Its at least a few more weeks before i can get it up and running, but i have better tanks for them already.
I didnt realize my water was that bad My poor fish. They were doing so much better today. I think they are going to make it. Im going to start the Jungle fungus tablets tonight. And the ick meds was the jungle ick tablets, and the second brand was ick away, not sure the maker. (purple and silver bottle).
One problem im only going to get 2 treatments in before i leave this weekend, father daughter camping trip. i hope the meds take hold before i leave. ive left special instructions for there care. YOU must be very fortunate to be disease free. This has been horrible. But i think ive learned alot. Thank you once again.
ok, i belive your right. I have a 55 gal. on standby but dont have any filters or a hood or even lights yet. it came with an undergravel filter. Problem there, i got it for my 4 feeder goldfish, and then im going to move the 2 fancy to the 20 gal. But i dont think it will be big enough. Its at least a few more weeks before i can get it up and running, but i have better tanks for them already.
I didnt realize my water was that bad
My poor fish. They were doing so much better today. I think they are going to make it. Im going to start the Jungle fungus tablets tonight. And the ick meds was the jungle ick tablets, and the second brand was ick away, not sure the maker. (purple and silver bottle). One problem im only going to get 2 treatments in before i leave this weekend, father daughter camping trip. i hope the meds take hold before i leave. ive left special instructions for there care. YOU must be very fortunate to be disease free. This has been horrible. But i think ive learned alot. Thank you once again.
One good dose of a combined anti-bacterial and anti-fungal med will do them for the weekend......but the med to use must be for both or the trouble wont go away. Jungle labs do a combi - or look for something called Heximita by eSHa.
Me disease free ? - lol - no unfortunately. I've been fighting HITH with one of my Oscars for 6 months with little progress, and the fins on some of the other oscars could be in better condition. Having just got some Heximita, I hope it does the trick. One of my Mbunas had popeye recently but recovered. Fish health is always an ongoing situation in a crowded community tank - that goes for you and for me. But the less crowded the tank, the healthier the fish.
Curiously though, I've got a couple of fish that have not been touched by anything else the others have had - so you can never tell what will happen.
Good news about having other tanks - just keep juggling things about and you'll settle down in the end (same as me)
Me disease free ? - lol - no unfortunately. I've been fighting HITH with one of my Oscars for 6 months with little progress, and the fins on some of the other oscars could be in better condition. Having just got some Heximita, I hope it does the trick. One of my Mbunas had popeye recently but recovered. Fish health is always an ongoing situation in a crowded community tank - that goes for you and for me. But the less crowded the tank, the healthier the fish.
Curiously though, I've got a couple of fish that have not been touched by anything else the others have had - so you can never tell what will happen.
Good news about having other tanks - just keep juggling things about and you'll settle down in the end (same as me)