BiUbe Biohazard

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

Hello all, and thank you in advance for any help you might have to offer!

I purchased a 9 gallon BiUbe in January. I would like to keep goldfish in the tank, but so far, no one has survived. Goldfish One in January got Ich. (When I went back to the pet store, I noticed all the goldfish in the tank were about to meet the same fate.) I treated the tank, but to no avail. Goldfish Two in February met the same Ichy fate as did Goldfish Three (purchased from a different store).

I have now "started over." I took everything out of the tank and boiled it. I wiped the tank out with hot water and set it all back up.

Now, onto Goldfish Four: This one appears to either be constipated or have a swim bladder issue. It stays near the bottom of the tank, but then slowly turns upside down, floats slowly up, then swims back down and appears to be fine for a small time period. I've researched on the Internet, and I'm trying to get it to munch on a pea. I'm changing the diet to non-pellets as well. It spends a lot of time hiding.

Water: I had a PH problem, but I got PH 7.0, and now the PH is "down" to about 8.0 for 8.3. I had a water hardness issue, so I added more salt. (Note that these changes have been gradual.)

Advise? I've had goldfish before when I was a child, and I never had a problem. I live in the same local, although I know there could be a change in water. I've kept tropical fish before, but now that I can't keep goldfish alive, I'm demoting myself to "newb."

Should I just get a Betta and call it quits? Am I just having bad luck with goldfish? Anyone else have a BiUbe? I wanted to get a fish tank to de-stress a bit, but I have been stressed since I got it having to deal with fishy diseases. Please advise!

Thank you!

SeaMonkeyMiner · Mar 12, 2006

First thing first gold fish should not be kept in a 9 gallon tank. they are way to messy. That is why you cant keep them alive.

it is better to have a stable high pH then constantly trying to change the pH of the water.Water has naturalbuffers that make the pH stay the same.

Not sure what the salt was for? pH?

I would go with a guppies or a betta in your 9 gallon tank

BTW welcome to the tank

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

Thanks for the quick reply! =)

SeaMonkeyMiner said:

I have been reading a lot more about goldfish now, and I was afraid that might be the problem. =P

My PH is "naturally" around 8.3. The people at the petstore said it needed to be around 7.0 to maintain life. Is 8.3 too high?

The salt is actually for water hardness, and the people at the pet store stated that it would help to discourage Ich.

I believe I will go with a Betta now. I believe they're a "hardier" fish as well.

I read on one site that this swim bladder issue could be painful for the fish... ? I am concerned about the little one. It is just a poor tiny little goldfish.

Thanks! =D (Plus, thanks again for your input!)

SeaMonkeyMiner · Mar 12, 2006

8.3 does sound a little high but that just means you would have great water for african cichlids.(But not in the 9 gallon unless you do small shellies but that is later on down the road) But the problem is that every time you add new water then the ph is going to go up and you are going to have to add more chemicals. Less chemicals in the tank the better. My water is around 7.8 and Ive keep all sorts of different fish. Most fish will "adapt" to the higher ph.

salt does discourage ich in one of its life stage.

Im sure swim bladder is painful. What disease isnt.

homebunnyj · Mar 12, 2006

Well, a 9gal might be a bit cramped as a permanent home for a goldie, seeing how big they grow and that they are virtually waste machines. But, notwithstanding that, I suspect that your tank was cycling (growing the bacteria necessary to break down ammonia into less harmful substances) and you did not realize that ammonia and nitrite were building up, thus causing your fish to weaken and succumb to illness? During this process, frequent water changes are necessary to keep these toxic substances to a tolerable level. Whenever a fish died, if it was more than something like six or eight hours (I'm not sure of exactly how long... input from more experienced members, please?) then the bacteria that were in there died and you started over from scratch.
Sincer you just cleaned out the tank and put the fish in, you had no bacteria to break down the ammonia, so your fish is basically being poisoned by his own waste until the bacteria grow. This takes a while. Do a partial water change (I'd do about 40%, anyone else have a suggestion?) now. You need to go get some water test kits for ammonia & nitrite at least for now , preferably nitrate too, since these substances are most important to detect in determining whether your fish's environment is toxic or not. If you can't, at least take a water sample to be tested, and make the fish store employee tell you the water parameters instead of just saying it's 'fine'. Post up the figures and members can offer some constructive advice.
As long as ammonia readings are above zero, or nitrite readings are, frequent partial water changes will be necessary to reduce stress on your fish.
What do you consider to be a ph 'problem'? What was your water hardness 'issue', and how much salt did you add? Salinity is a separate issue from hardness. Sounds like you're overthinking the whole thing.
Don't give up, it's far from hopeless. Read the stickies in the freshwater beginner section, and in the goldfish section. They're very helpful.

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

SeaMonkeyMiner said:

Right now, I am putting in a declorinator, the salt, and the PH stuff. I've been letting the water sit for about 24 hours before a change with the chemicals in there too. I thought this might discourage PH shifts. Now with the tank already having the PH stuff in there, should I discontinue or just keep it up?

Also, there is this "Stress Zyme" that the pet store stated contained live bacteria which would help the biological filtration... thoughts? My water has been very cloudy since this addition.

I'd hate to have to euthanize a fish. =P

Thanks again for the quick advice. =)

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

Thanks!

homebunnyj said:

Well, with Goldfish One, I believe the fish was sick before I brought it home. I was unfamiliar with Ich. When I went back, I spotted it at the store(pardon the pun). Now I am <i>very</i> familiar with it...

I didn't know all the bacteria died that quickly! I did frequent water changes of 25% a day. I've done no water changes with Goldfish Four that I purchased on Friday.

There's actually a pet store semi-near my job, so I have been taking the water to get it tested once or twice per week. There is one woman there that seems very knowledgeable, but as for the others...

At the pet store, they advised a PH of 7.0 which implied 8.3 was a problem. They also stated that water hardness was a problem and adding salt would help. As for how much salt, I believe two tablespoons.

I'm sure you're right there. I tend to over analyze.

Thanks! =)

pigs_fly · Mar 12, 2006

Dragon, first off, welcome! You have found a HUGE blessing here at the "tank", at least it has been for me. The members are amazing and really care about you and your aquatic friends

Second, DONT GIVE UP!!! just search through my threads and you will see that pretty much anyone can make it back from the bottom of the tank

Third, I agree with what homebunnyj advised to you. Get your water parameters checked out, and if you take a sample to the petstore, be sure to get the figures from them - because what's "fine" for them may not really be fine...Invest in some test kits of your own if you can, preferably the test tube kind, as opposed to the dip sticks. Having your own kit will save you precious time as well as money in the future. Let us know what the readings for your water are.

Also, like homebunnyj mentioned, try posting a thread in the goldfish forum to see if more specialized members can give you more pointers too.

And I'm just a newbe myself, but one thing I have learned is that water parameters are the key and dont forget to cycle your water

Goodluck!!

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

pigs_fly said:

Thanks! I can tell by reading a lot of the posts that the people here are great! =)

Good analogy!

I have the latest reading that I will try to post later, if I can find the paper... the one woman wrote everything down for me. Right now, I would be unable to afford the water testing stuff. This tank has been a major money drain for me with all the stuff I've been talked into buying!

Thanks!

Lotus · Mar 12, 2006

Welcome

It looks like everyone is giving you good advice.

On the money thing, really all you need to have are dechlorinator, fish food and water tests. You don't need all the other additives like stresszyme, pH adjusters or salt. Hopefully that will save you some cash

Big Vine · Mar 12, 2006

Dragon, welcome to the forum!

You've clearly shown your willingness to learn by accepting the constructive feedback that you've been given thus far. Keep it up. *thumbsups

Dragon said:

Read through the stickies in the forums, and just browse the forums in general. Participate on the forum, and you will soon have a firm grasp of the "must-have" items, along with all the other...let's say, more 'optional'...equipment choices that you have been "talked into buying."

That's one of the beauties of this forum...the majority of members are here to help you succeed, rather than try to sell you something you don't need!

EDIT: I just saw Lotus's post---listen to her! She really knows her stuff. *thumbsup2

See ya' around.
Big Vine

wonghee76 · Mar 12, 2006

helo..

i m real far away from all of u....i m from asia

i wish to said something about

1.salt and Hardness,

salt with 1g per liter of water act an additive for aquarium as addtional treatment
salt with 3g per liter of water act to reduce nitrite toxicity and additional treatment for physical damage
salt with 10g per liter of water act as a supportive treatment for coldwater fish with ulcer desease
salt with 20-30g per liter of water act to remove leeches from pond faish and short use as short bath for 15-30 minutes only.

the above dosage were from Andrew et al, 1988. The Manual of fish health.Tetra.USA

salt will only contribute to the salinity built up of the water. 3g per liter water were equal to sae water salinity. As an additive for aquarium 1g per liter of water were suficient.

there were a few type of hardness, they are the total hardness, carbonate hardness, calsium hardness and so on. the main purpose of ur having 4-8dkH of hardness in our water is to block the pH level so that our pH level were more consistant and our fishes will less stress on this.

2. about the ich cycle,
there were certain stage of the live cycle where v can kill the ich.
but lets look at the stages by stages
Trophont Phase:
This is the phase when you discover your fish have “ich”. The parasite burrows through the slime layer and becomes encased in a hard shell which is often called a "cyst." It is these cysts that have the distinctive "grains of salt" appearance. The parasite at this stage is immune to medication, being protected by the skin of the fish and the hard shell of the cyst.The adult parasite moves slowly in a tumbling manner.
Size: 0.5 to 1.0 mm (oval to round)
Tomont Phase:
When the parasite matures it breaks out of the skin, still encased, and falls away leaving a tiny open wound in the skin of the fish. The cyst falls to the bottom of the tank or into the cracks and crevices of an object such as a rock or plant. Inside its casing the tomont divides. At this stage, the parasite is immune to treatment.

Size: ~400 µm
Theront Phase:
When the tomont ruptures it bursts open to release hundreds of theronts into the water. This is the phase of the “ich” life cycle when the parasite is vulnerable to medication. Theronts have a life span of approximately two days (at water temperature of 250C) and will die if they have not successfully located a host fish.
Size: ~40 µm

hope u can understand that.

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

Lotus said:

Thanks, and I agree!

I hope to be able to get some water testing supplies once I am able. Test tubes and such are right up my alley so to speak. Right now, the free testing at the pet store is doing alright. I have the dechlorinator... I believe I even have two different kinds now... =P

I might go ahead and use up some of this stuff and gradually take it away. This little fish is still trying to live, but I am wondering if it's okay. I don't want it to suffer. =P

I should be able to pick up a Betta on Thursday or Friday. =) Hopefully then my tank can begin to house a living organism for over one week!

Thanks!

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

Big Vine said:

Thanks! =)

Yes! That is one of the main reasons I signed up; real advice from people who have experience!

Cya! =)

Dragon · Mar 12, 2006

wonghee76 said:

I've always wanted to visit Asia!

On the salt, I followed the instructions on the bottle. The instructions suggested "doubling up" on the salt if the fish were acting sick, so I just followed the directions. Fortunately, my salinity has been "fine" thus far.

I read an article that was entitled something like, "everything you ever wanted to know about Ich." I feel like an Ich expert now. =P I find now that I always boil the water to put in the bucket to prepare to go in the fish tank. I read somewhere that all stages of Ich dies at high temperatures. (Of course the water has time to get to room temperature before being added to the tank.) I don't know if this is wasting time boiling the water though. I thought we might just have really "ichy" water. =P

Thanks!

Dragon · Mar 13, 2006

I did a 25% water change today, and I am hoping this will help the new cloudiness issue. Since I added the pet store recommended Stress-Zyme stuff, the water has been very cloudy. I did not add any of that stuff in the partial water change "new" water, so we shall see how that goes. Maybe I should change the water daily 25% until the cloudiness clears?

The goldfish isn't doing any better. =P

I can pick up a Betta on Thursday, in theory. I could pick one up today or earlier, but he would have to stay in the bag for three hours plus the ride home (work). Does anyone have any advice on what to do with my little goldfish? Should I see how he does until Thursday or "Betta Intro" and take him out so the beneficial bacteria doesn't die?

Thanks a lot! =)

wonghee76 · Mar 13, 2006

hai...

u r always welcome to asia

*twirlysmi *SUNSMILE*

yup...u can boil the water to kill the ich at all stages but....u cant just boil the water with fish on it....it will kill ur fish

...hahahhaha...just use a heater to adjust the temperature increase slowly degree by degree untill 30 degree celcius will do. the heat is to fastern the life cycle of the ich. at 28-30 degree celcius...the life cycle is 4 days while it take month for cooler water. when we treat our fish that infected by ich, v need to treat until the life cycle end,,...tat is minimum of 4 days for 28 degree celsius. if u treat not long enough, the ich will come again after a few days....*SICK*

best regards
Hee

wonghee76 · Mar 13, 2006

hai...

is me again.....forget to mention, as far as i know, no water conditioner that surpose to cloud our water ...may b u should question ur pet shop about the cloudiness issues, may b the remedy had expired*crazysmil

bye

Hee

Dragon · Mar 14, 2006

I have been boiling the water a day before I change the water just in case there's any Ich in it. I don't know if anyone else does this to their water, but I thought it might be a good precaution.

I do not have a heater, but it looks like I may be investing in one since I am going to try a Betta. My goldfish died this morning. =( I've had Bettas before, but I did not have a heater, but I can see the positive aspects of having a heated tank.

I think this was my problem. My tank water must've been colder than I suspected. I thought the Ich would be gone in two weeks, but I probably should've waited a month. I am glad this goldfish apparently died from a problem with the swim bladder opposed to Ich. I made a 25% water change today since the fish died. From what I read, it doesn't sound like the swim bladder issue is catching...?

Thanks! =)

Dragon · Mar 14, 2006

wonghee76 said:

The tank cleared up today... weird; however, I will question the pet store.

Thanks again! =)

BiUbe Biohazard

Small Fish

Large Fish

Small Fish

Large Fish

Superstar Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Large Fish

Small Fish

Ultimate Fish

Elite Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish

Small Fish