BV's 75 gal. - Journal

Hamburgler

Hamburgler

Large Fish
#21
Jan 8, 2007
186
0
0
corrupt lfs
#21
Looks great! Far from overstocked, if you want to see "overstocked" look on MFK for 'Japanese' style bare bottom tanks. A tank can be overstocked with perfectly healthy fish. In the end we are all criminals...there is no way to perfectly reproduce the space and setting found in nature.

I love the aquascaping, i have no patience for that type of thing. My tanks are just loaded with rocks, driftwood and PVC not particularly nice looking but it gets the job done.

And like i said in the other thread...looks like a great setup for "disposable" common cichlids like that.
 

Helena21

Helena21

Superstar Fish
#22
Oct 7, 2005
1,850
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Essex, England
#22
OK i have to say something here.
"Far from overstocked" ??? are you serious? personally, i think this tank is over "fully stocked"....and the fish arent even fully grown yet.
When Triton is fully grown along with the other fish, im not sure the tank will be able to cope with all the waste and crap. I also think its abit mean to keep all those aggressive fish together in the same tank. I mean, apart from the con and Triton do the others actually come out from hiding?
Im really not trying to start an argument here, im just concerned for the fish, so please dont start bashing me.
and BV, the tank does look really nice lol :)
 

ram man

ram man

Superstar Fish
#23
Apr 16, 2005
1,441
4
38
33
Arizona
#23
BV's tank is a bit overstocked. I'm sure he can handle that part of it though with frequent water changes and good filters. What I would worry about is the aggression. All are male cichlids. I can see alot of aggression problems with this tank BV. Hamburgler, I really don't understand what you mean by "disposable".
 

Hamburgler

Hamburgler

Large Fish
#28
Jan 8, 2007
186
0
0
corrupt lfs
#28
I hate to further derail, but many "overstocked" tanks on MFK have massive filtration systems (wet/dry, sumps, auto water changers etc.), lots of money put into plumbing and equipment, and even food. The result is healthy fish with their needs met. Putting a fish in a glass box is cruel, period, whether you tried to replicate the natural environment or not.
 

Katie217

Katie217

Superstar Fish
#29
Jul 15, 2006
2,494
5
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Florida
#29
Hamburgler I think you're missing the point...
Even though the water is "pristine" in those over stocked tanks, those fish can hardly move around without bumping into eachother. While in the wild some of those fish would only see their same species to breed. Who cares about how much money they spent on filtration, its still not cool to be extremely overstocked like those tanks are.
 

Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#30
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
0
47
Florida
#30
Wow...lots of comments, so forgive me if I don't respond to each one individually. As always, I appreciate the feedback. For now, I really want to focus on addressing something Orion brought up.
Orion said:
Aren't most of these fish juveniles?
Click to expand...
Half of them are.
The only one I'd consider to be adult is the convict. The oscar is a sub-adult, and the salvini and firemouth are still very much juveniles.

And as Orion suggested, that's why it is far, far too early to make assumptions on long-term living arrangements. The whole point of this thread is to track the progress of these fish, or lack thereof, over a long period of time. And I've chosen to 'showcase' this setup in particular precisely because of the fact that it is risky. Tankmates are all considered aggressive to one degree or another, so actually having them work out long-term together will most certainly be a challenge. Of course it will probably require a fair bit of luck, but I'd like to think that I had some role contributing toward its 'success'---and that's where it gets tricky. My definition and your definition of 'success' in regards to this setup may differ a great deal.

As to why I've had a change of heart with regards to housing Triton alone...
Several reasons. First off, when he got sick I jumped the gun by telling myself (and announcing somewhere publicly, apparently) that I would from now on keep him alone. It applied quite fittingly to the situation at the time, but now that he's better and has a larger tank, that has changed. Not only that, but I could tell that he did not appear to be fully 'at ease' as he once used to be back when he had his tiger barb tankmates. Although I'm sure he would have eventually gotten accustomed to living alone, I decided to take him on a different path. Ever since he's had new tankmates, he appears to be much more content.

But you don't have to take my word for it! Check out the vids...
YouTube - Oscar - Con - Sal - FM
YouTube - Krill Time

BV
 

Hamburgler

Hamburgler

Large Fish
#31
Jan 8, 2007
186
0
0
corrupt lfs
#31
Katie217 said:
Hamburgler I think you're missing the point...
Even though the water is "pristine" in those over stocked tanks, those fish can hardly move around without bumping into eachother. While in the wild some of those fish would only see their same species to breed. Who cares about how much money they spent on filtration, its still not cool to be extremely overstocked like those tanks are.
Click to expand...
True, but....in the wild they also wouldn't run into glass walls, or encounter plastic plants, or a completely gravel bottom........and so on. A fish tank will never recreate a natural setting. Clearly this boils down to opinon. :)
 

Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#33
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
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Florida
#33
Thanks, Hamburgler!

Tell you what, let's put an end to the bioload debate for my particular setup. Browse over the following thread:
Oscarfish.com :: View topic - Nitrate Show and Tell

You'll see my latest 75 gal. tank nitrAte test results on the 2nd page. Tomorrow it will have been 6 days since my last water change. Probably a bit overdue, but I wanted to wait until the day before I left for Thanksgiving. Anyway, as soon as you see the liquid in that vial turning red (yes, red...not 'dark' orange) on a consistent basis, then you can say "I told ya' so" or whatever. Until then, let's consider this bioload issue specifically as it relates to my tank to be case-closed. Sound fair enough?

As for the compatibility debate...
Well, my friends, that's exactly what this thread is for. Mostly it is dependent on the fish and their individual personalities. These are likely to change as they mature, and that aspect of things is out of my control. Fish will govern their own territories, but I can control how territories are laid out. Moreover, I can certainly control when a fish is removed from the tank because it is getting picked-on. This goes back to my definition of 'success' for this setup. Yours might be different. To each his own.
If/when fish are permanently injured and/or die as a result of aggression because of my failure to intervene in time to prevent it, then you can say "I told ya' so" or whatever. Until then, let's consider this compatibility issue specifically as it relates to my tank to be case-closed. Sound fair enough?

BV
 

Katie217

Katie217

Superstar Fish
#34
Jul 15, 2006
2,494
5
0
Florida
#34
BV those videos were great! Dont get me wrong, the tank is awesome! And all the fish look great.

I have a suggestion though...
From watching that video, the Firemouth seemed almost like a "pointless" fish to have. He never came out, and looked stressed during the duration of the videos. Which makes me think, why not take him out? You dont see him and neither do the other fish.
 

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Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#37
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
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Florida
#37
Yes, I absolutely agree.

-----------------------------------
EDIT...didn't see that latest exchange between Katie and Avalon ^^^.
When I said "I absolutely agree," I was referring to Katie's comments with reference to the firemouth hiding and not making much of an appearance in the vids I posted. Okay, back to what I wrote earlier...
-----------------------------------

Based on what you've seen in the vids thus far, it does not appear that the firemouth will be a suitable long-term occupant in this tank with his current tankmates. However, he has been out feeding. He came out yesterday as I was uploading a portion of one of my videos (when my memory card was full). He has already come out to scavenge several times today as well.

More importantly, he serves as a target which helps to divide the convict's attention between him and the salvini. See, as far as the oscar goes, the firemouth and salvini are now largely ignored. Sure, Triton will still chase after them, but it's mostly half-heartedly. The convict, on the other hand, is now doing to the firemouth and salvini what Triton initially did to him. Now that he has passed Triton's 'test,' it's time for the firemouth and salivini to pass his test. In that regard, I'd say that the salvini has largely passed. The firemouth, on the other hand...well...that's still up in the air. He's obviously not thriving with flying colors, but I also do not feel that he's 'done for' yet either.

BV
 

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Orion

Orion

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
#38
Feb 10, 2003
5,803
3
38
Kentucky
www.thefishcave.net
#38
Thanks for clearing that up for me BV. Somewhere along the way I had got the idea that you said something along the lines of this is how they interact and how they will always interact, just not in those exact words.
 

Big Vine

Big Vine

Elite Fish
#39
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
0
47
Florida
#39
No problem, Orion.
I'm glad you brought it to my attention so I could clear things up. I'm certainly not in any position to predict the outcome of this setup to any degree of certainty. I can hypothesize about it, sure, but I would never claim to know the eventual dynamics of the tank based on the way the fish happen to be interacting today. Forgive me if I gave that impression. I certainly did not mean to. ;)

BV
 

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