Canister filters ?

[Rotaripsnoc]

My wife purchased a 60 gal tank for me for Valentines day, it's finally here. Apart from hoods and a stand however we are lacking on components for it. I've read a lot of negative comment about out of tank canister filters, problems with cracks, from Eheim, and general poor construction on Fluval \ terrible customer service.

So I decided to check the forums here, and there are not really any mention of canister filters in the equipment section. I never had a problem with canisters on salty tanks, but this will be a freshwater tank, other than more material for bio filtration are there any pro \ con that would suggest a canister unit ?

I have seen a lot of positive comments for penguin filters here, does anyone have a recommendation for the filter system, over the side vs canister.

The tank, once cycled will be a community tank, with Jack ( undyed jellybean parrot ) probably a few other parrots in the future, maybe a few Discus in time, though I understand they need a much softer water then what we have now.

As always thanks for your time and input.

 

[MTRX]

i don't have answer for you, but rather what is a canister filter??

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

@MTRX

Essentially a canister filter is a bucket where water is drawn from the tank via pump. There are 2 different kinds of canisters, one will draw the water through a substrate, sand, rock, or plastic bio balls first, to break up larger particles and provide a lot of room for nitrite > nitrate bacteria to live, before being passed through a series of filters \ chemical filters\ that allow the water to return to the tank. The other kind works in reverse, series of filters > substrate material > tank. Like this http://www.fluvalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/306-cutaway-with-flow-copy.jpg

Pro:

• Canister filters usually provide a high volume of quality filtration, mechanical, bio and chemical.
• In my experience only require minor water changes ever couple of weeks.
• Changing out filters and half the substrate is infrequent.
• They sit outside the tank, allowing heater elements to be placed outside the tank.
• They do not clutter the back or side of the tank as much as over the side filters.

Con:

• They are usually gallon size or larger.
• If they develop a leak they will remove a lot of water very quickly,
• Impellers seem to require more attention.
• Hoses to and from the tank have to be cleaned monthly and can be difficult to clean due to length.
• I've read horror stories about most of the current canisters quality of construction, backed by terrible customer service.
• They tend to be fussy to prime, and until you learn how it can take a while to get the hang of.
• usually 2x + the cost of a hanging filter.

For both the Fluval and Eheim models, out of 100 + reviews 10 % or so of users on Amazon tend to have the same problem, where as virtually no one on petsmart \ petco report issues.

Usually I only focus on 1 star ratings to make purchasing decisions, however that's why I posted here the mixed data, I was hoping for real life stories.

 

[FreshyFresh]

The sky is the limit when it comes to filtration.

You could do two hang-on-back filters on the 60gal, or one HOB and 2 suction cup or corner (air powered) bubbler filters.

Like you say though, a canister is probably best once you exceed 50gal. There's some impressive looking Chinese import canisters on eBay for $50-75. Like said above, what scares me with canisters is, if the tank is on a main floor and something goes awry, quite a bit of water could siphon out of the tank through the hoses and all throughout your home.

I've got a cheaper, standard HOB filter on my 29gal, supplemented by a cheap suction cup sponge filter @ one rear corner and a clear, plastic box bubbler filter in the other. I had a air pump with two air outlets, so why not. These could potentially siphon water out of your tank too, but I've got check valves on each line to prevent this. I don't *think* check valves are an option for canister filter lines.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

I've been looking at the Fluval 306, most of the negative reports are of it having a few flimsy parts, I've found a few video reviews and while it may have a few delicate areas it seems like it's solid enough, unless you're exceptionally rough on equipment.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I have heard Fluvals are a good brand, as well as Eheim, but have not used either. I did have an old Marineland Magnum canister filter which kept the water very clean. After the first time cleaning it, it lived inside a shallow pan so the water lost when unhooking the hoses was contained. I'm sure, if a cheap brand like that did well, those good brands must be great. The new Fluvals have a good looking system from pictures I've found online. And supposedly don't have that pesky leaking issue when disconnecting hoses for cleaning.

I think in the last several years, the quality and performance of both HOB and canisters have improved greatly from what they used to be. I've never had an issue with a HOB filter. You should be able to find one that you can really customize the media, if you want to go that route.

 

[Lotus]

I'd highly recommend getting a canister and a HOB (hang-on back) filter for a tank that size. One of each seems to help keep the tank clean/healthy, and you always have one working if you have one fail for some reason.

We've had Magnum filters and Eheim filters, and Eheims are far superior, IMO. They seem to work really well and the filtration is excellent. I think we've had our Eheims for 5 or 6 years now. We've had to buy a replacement part here and there, but that's generally not a bad lifespan for a filter. Some of the less expensive brands maybe last 3 years, and it's not always easy to get parts. If things like impellers or hose attachments are reasonably easy to find, it's a good sign, IMO.

Canister filters, as long as they're running right, tend to be a lot quieter than HOB filters. That may be an issue if you're planning to put the tank in a bedroom or other spot where you want peace and quiet.

You definitely can run a 60 gallon tank with one or two HOB filters, if you'd rather go that route.

 

[djm761]

At this time I have 3 Fluval 405's. 3 406's and 5 FX5's setup with coarse media. And for water polishing I am using 5 Emperor 400's and 4 280's. I have never had a problem with any of these filters.

 

[FishDad]

My 129 gallon has three emporer 400 HOB filters. I'm very happy with them. Little maintenance, easy to clean. I am nervous about the threat of backing up and over flowing that can happen with canisters. With the marinland products it seems virtually impossible for that to happen. Also in case of power inturruption (which has happened while at work) the marinelans filters can self prime and restart.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Good point. Can canisters loose prime on a power outage?

My cheap Top-Fin 30 HOB and Penguin HOB. Start right back up after power outages. They only loose prime if you drop the water level below the suction strainer.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

I work in technology, and we always have a backup system in place for worst case scenarios, it never occurred to me to do the same for the tank filter.

I ordered a Fluval 306 this morning, however I'll also be purchasing a hob for the tank now too, just in case - thanks for the suggestion Lotus. The tank is occupying a wall in our dining room, which is not far from our bedroom, however noise isn't really a problem for us.

@ djm761 I'm glad to hear you use Fluval with no problems, it's been a while since I've had a large tank, or any tank setup for that matter, I appreciate your input

Thanks everyone for your input !

 

[FreshyFresh]

I work in technology, and we always have a backup system in place for worst case scenarios..

Same here. In my line of work, without forms of backup, things would get seriously hazardous.

Taking clues from fine members here, I've got 3 separate forms of filtration in my 29gal tank. The HOB is mech/chem/bio. The air powered units are mech/bio only. The main thing IMO is to always have a backup bio to rely on.

...and yet I still have issues. With the 29 that is!

 

[Lotus]

One thing to beware of if you do have a power outage, or the filter stops working for some reason, is that you'll need to rinse/change your filter media before you turn the filter back on. When the water flow stops, the bacteria on the media will start to turn anaerobic, which can kill your fish. It takes only a couple of hours for this to happen. So, if you have a brief power outage and things start right back up, you don't need to worry.

Filters can be finicky. Even those that started straight back up at one point in time may stop doing it at some point. Others may not. It's not necessarily even specific to one brand or one model.

 

[MTRX]

oh right. those big filters, seen a lot of them get stashed under the tank in the cabinets. I've heard them called a lot of different things, and seen a lot of different kinds. I still use cartridge(hang on filters on my stuff), if it's a tank over 30GALLONS i'll start using biowheels. 2 of those with the cartridges usually does a 60GALLON very nicely. I also do away with stand lids, and mount my stuff on the sides instead, gives a long current in my tank. little river style current that my live bearers love. they hit it like a river current, then get out of the current when they're done playing. guppies live current.
I've seen some do it yourself canister filters on youtube. perhaps if you don't trust any manufactured stuff, you could build your own??

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

[FreshyFresh]

One thing to beware of if you do have a power outage, or the filter stops working for some reason, is that you'll need to rinse/change your filter media before you turn the filter back on..

I was not aware of that.

Which media? The mechanical, biological or both?

 

[FishDad]

I was not aware of that either.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

I was not aware of that either.

Nor did I.

 

[Lotus]

All of the media will go anaerobic. It tends to be a bit worse in canisters because there's no access to the air. HOB filters at least have some oxygen exchange. Give it a sniff (if you dare). If it smells rotten/rotten eggs or other unusual grossness, you'll need to give it a good rinse.

As long as your tank has been up a while, and isn't horribly overstocked, you shouldn't have a problem with a cycle from rinsing the media.

 

[FishDad]

Good info, thanks Lotus

 

[exhumed07]

there are many types of filteration that you can use. there are diy and store bought. u can do like a saltwater setup for fresh water, algae turf scrubbers, tower filters, hob, canister, and spong filters. those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head. i prefer hob filters like the penguin biowheels. i think they are easy to maintain and work great. also like the sound of the cascading water. i am planning to experiment with a diy canister filter this summer though. and i am experienced with pvc building and am confident in keeping it water tight as that has seemed to be an issue i have heard before.