hello, first post. i have a 90g split up between some friends and i and we want a nice looking community tank with lots of fish. we have some cichlids already but they get along just fine with everything else. i need help getting more fish that are peaceful and i need a couple of fish that grow big but will not harm tetras and other small fish to please my roomies. any suggestions? this is a link to my favorite community tank iv seen. YouTube - My planted 90 gallon freshwater
Community Tank Fish
- Thread starter Squiggles9059
- Start date
First your stocking plan is a hot mess....
Angel, guppy, platty, gourami, blue danio all ok together
Yellow cichlid is likely a yellow lab, blue is likely a kenyi both african need to be with african cichlids
Jack dempsys and Firemouths are south american and need to be kept only with south american cichlids
Bala shark is not ok with any species on this list and needs to be in a huge tank in a group of 5+
So... you need to pick a plan, african cichlids, south american chichlids, or general tropical then rehome the fish that don't work with that group (petstores often offer credit for returned fish)
Once you have chosen a direction to go let us know we will offer stocking suggestions.
Cant believe a fish store sold you all those fish for the same tank.... Didn't they tell you that they don't really mix?
Angel, guppy, platty, gourami, blue danio all ok together
Yellow cichlid is likely a yellow lab, blue is likely a kenyi both african need to be with african cichlids
Jack dempsys and Firemouths are south american and need to be kept only with south american cichlids
Bala shark is not ok with any species on this list and needs to be in a huge tank in a group of 5+
So... you need to pick a plan, african cichlids, south american chichlids, or general tropical then rehome the fish that don't work with that group (petstores often offer credit for returned fish)
Once you have chosen a direction to go let us know we will offer stocking suggestions.
Cant believe a fish store sold you all those fish for the same tank.... Didn't they tell you that they don't really mix?
So here are the pros and cons of each of the three groups of fish you have in that tank.
1 South american/Central American (Jack Demp, Firemouth)
-Grow big
-very aggressive
-interact with the folks outside the tank
-will fight each other, can be fed live food, 90g tank you can get away with 5-8 south american fish, the smallest will be as big as your hand
-will rip up and destroy plants and decor
-will rearrange your gravel daily
-pair up lay eggs have hundreds of babies and are supper duper extra aggressive when this goes on
African (the blue and the yellow)
-get to around 3-4" generally
-nippy and do fight but they don't' bash each other into things
-Like to be somewhat crowded
-variety of really bright colors
-will eat your plants
-will move some gravel
-hold their babies in their mouths, don't pair up
-you can house some species of aggressive barbs with these guys too
-you can house 30 or so in that sized tank
General tropica (angels, guppy, platty, tetra, etc)
-not too aggressive (some extremely passive)
-most won't molest plants or dechor
-can keep a variety of species in one tank
-some lay eggs, some bear live young
-got lots of options with this one
-they tend to stay smaller (the smallest of the 3 groups discussed here) no big fish will work with them (because they will be eaten) these are the types of fish in that video
Also that tank in the video belongs to a breeder or a fish store, it is overstocked with babies (per description) and they are being re-homed, if you had that tank like that long term it would be a hot mess... Almost as much of a mess as the tank disaster you have now.
Sorry not being mean, just telling you what is up before the carnage begins.
1 South american/Central American (Jack Demp, Firemouth)
-Grow big
-very aggressive
-interact with the folks outside the tank
-will fight each other, can be fed live food, 90g tank you can get away with 5-8 south american fish, the smallest will be as big as your hand
-will rip up and destroy plants and decor
-will rearrange your gravel daily
-pair up lay eggs have hundreds of babies and are supper duper extra aggressive when this goes on
African (the blue and the yellow)
-get to around 3-4" generally
-nippy and do fight but they don't' bash each other into things
-Like to be somewhat crowded
-variety of really bright colors
-will eat your plants
-will move some gravel
-hold their babies in their mouths, don't pair up
-you can house some species of aggressive barbs with these guys too
-you can house 30 or so in that sized tank
General tropica (angels, guppy, platty, tetra, etc)
-not too aggressive (some extremely passive)
-most won't molest plants or dechor
-can keep a variety of species in one tank
-some lay eggs, some bear live young
-got lots of options with this one
-they tend to stay smaller (the smallest of the 3 groups discussed here) no big fish will work with them (because they will be eaten) these are the types of fish in that video
Also that tank in the video belongs to a breeder or a fish store, it is overstocked with babies (per description) and they are being re-homed, if you had that tank like that long term it would be a hot mess... Almost as much of a mess as the tank disaster you have now.
Sorry not being mean, just telling you what is up before the carnage begins.
Unfortunately I think your current stocking is setting your tank up for disaster. Bala sharks get extremely large and need to be maintained in groups of 5 or better, not to mention a larger specimen could make an easy meal out of your livebearers and danios. Gouramis, depending on the type, also can get large and very territorial. Guppies and platys should be kept in groups with an appropriate M/F ratio. Danios also should be kept in shoals of 5 or more and prefer cooler water temps than what your angel would thrive in.
I'm assuming your cichlids are juveniles at the moment, and that you likely got the 2 yellow, one blue from a tank of mixed Africans? This presents a problem because you don't know the specific species and as such don't know their care requirements or adult size. We can safely assume that they are aggressive and territorial as Africans tend to be (particularly compared to suitable community fish), as are the Dempseys - the JDs are aggressive and territorial enough on their own but they are going to terrorize your tank (or what's left of it) if they start to breed. Firemouths tend to be much milder in temperament than the JDs or Africans, as are angels, but they are still cichlids and still territorial so when these fish begin to reach their adult size I honestly don't think even a 90 gal is going to be enough to allow them to establish their own territories.
Aside from all the personality/size clashing going on in the tank already, Africans require extremely different tank conditions from what the rest of your fish will need to stay healthy. In fact I would argue that they are pretty much polar opposite from the ideal conditions for your angel - rock structures vs. planted tank, high pH/hardness vs. more acidic, soft water, etc.
In a 90 gal you could have EITHER a beautiful community, OR a very nice cichlid tank (whether you want to focus on the JD or the Africans) but unfortunately you cannot have it all. So whichever you decide the majority of your fish will need to be rehomed, and I strongly encourage you to ask lots of questions and do lots of research in order to create an appropriate environment for the fish you end up with.
I'm assuming your cichlids are juveniles at the moment, and that you likely got the 2 yellow, one blue from a tank of mixed Africans? This presents a problem because you don't know the specific species and as such don't know their care requirements or adult size. We can safely assume that they are aggressive and territorial as Africans tend to be (particularly compared to suitable community fish), as are the Dempseys - the JDs are aggressive and territorial enough on their own but they are going to terrorize your tank (or what's left of it) if they start to breed. Firemouths tend to be much milder in temperament than the JDs or Africans, as are angels, but they are still cichlids and still territorial so when these fish begin to reach their adult size I honestly don't think even a 90 gal is going to be enough to allow them to establish their own territories.
Aside from all the personality/size clashing going on in the tank already, Africans require extremely different tank conditions from what the rest of your fish will need to stay healthy. In fact I would argue that they are pretty much polar opposite from the ideal conditions for your angel - rock structures vs. planted tank, high pH/hardness vs. more acidic, soft water, etc.
In a 90 gal you could have EITHER a beautiful community, OR a very nice cichlid tank (whether you want to focus on the JD or the Africans) but unfortunately you cannot have it all. So whichever you decide the majority of your fish will need to be rehomed, and I strongly encourage you to ask lots of questions and do lots of research in order to create an appropriate environment for the fish you end up with.
Yeah, my guess is that he got the fish at petco or similar. That being said what i see at chain stores for africans are
Kenyi (blue with black stripes)
Yellow labs (solid yellow black fins)
Red Zebras (orange solid color)
Bumble bess (look like bumble bees)
Acei (light blue yellow fins)
Anywho everything on that list is going to be on the aggressive side of africans except for the yellow labs. Africans will do fine in any PH but they will peck the fins off every fish in that tank
Firemouths are not at all like angels in temperament, they are large aggressive south American cichlids (well aggressive is relative her, they are in the middle of the SA range for aggressive but compared to what he has in that tank they are super aggressive). They are a good fit with jacks, severums, green terrors, texas blues etc.
Yeah he has 3 different setups going on here, a south American, a general tropical, and an African community. Need to pick one.
Kenyi (blue with black stripes)
Yellow labs (solid yellow black fins)
Red Zebras (orange solid color)
Bumble bess (look like bumble bees)
Acei (light blue yellow fins)
Anywho everything on that list is going to be on the aggressive side of africans except for the yellow labs. Africans will do fine in any PH but they will peck the fins off every fish in that tank
Firemouths are not at all like angels in temperament, they are large aggressive south American cichlids (well aggressive is relative her, they are in the middle of the SA range for aggressive but compared to what he has in that tank they are super aggressive). They are a good fit with jacks, severums, green terrors, texas blues etc.
Yeah he has 3 different setups going on here, a south American, a general tropical, and an African community. Need to pick one.
thank you all so much. i dont feel bad at all for your comments we have high self esteem. i have very little knowledge on species and just started using aqadvisor.com. i will move all of my cichlids to a twenty gallon and ten. then i want a general tropical community tank with lots of activity. where should i go from here?
Yeah drive em to Michigan. LOL. I will met you at MSU or UofM for the hand off 
I would suggest moving what you have for tropical to the 10-20's that you haev then doing cichlids in the large tank. Either keeping the South americans or Africans.
The post wasn't to make you feel bad, more to illustrate the severity of what you are doing. Frequently we have folks here who tell us they are taking a wait and see approach on a hot mess of a stocking situation.
With a tank that size you will probably really like the activity of cichlids, they have BIG personalities. You cold get away with a higher number of Africans then most other fish options.
You just recently purchased the fish correct? Where did you buy them? They have a return policy most places, particularly if they are still alive. Just bag them and take them back, tell the manager what you were sold and by whom. They will happily accept the return and give you store credit.
Or bring them to me. I don't have a SA tank up and at em at the moment but I can get them to one in about 10 minutes LOL
All of the big box stores take returns on livestock. I have returned fish to petco and petsmart personally both the dead variety and the live.
I would suggest moving what you have for tropical to the 10-20's that you haev then doing cichlids in the large tank. Either keeping the South americans or Africans.
The post wasn't to make you feel bad, more to illustrate the severity of what you are doing. Frequently we have folks here who tell us they are taking a wait and see approach on a hot mess of a stocking situation.
With a tank that size you will probably really like the activity of cichlids, they have BIG personalities. You cold get away with a higher number of Africans then most other fish options.
You just recently purchased the fish correct? Where did you buy them? They have a return policy most places, particularly if they are still alive. Just bag them and take them back, tell the manager what you were sold and by whom. They will happily accept the return and give you store credit.
Or bring them to me. I don't have a SA tank up and at em at the moment but I can get them to one in about 10 minutes
LOLAll of the big box stores take returns on livestock. I have returned fish to petco and petsmart personally both the dead variety and the live.
LMAO, Ann Arbor is a sweet town, I went to school there
You just bought the fish right? they have a return policy most likely 2 weeks if it is alive, I would return what you won't be keeping.
As a side note (Im very biased) I would do African Cichlids and return the rest, they are very hardy, very active and have big personalities. They also tolerate crowding to a degree.
You just bought the fish right? they have a return policy most likely 2 weeks if it is alive, I would return what you won't be keeping.
As a side note (Im very biased) I would do African Cichlids and return the rest, they are very hardy, very active and have big personalities. They also tolerate crowding to a degree.
"Firemouths are not at all like angels in temperament, they are large aggressive south American cichlids (well aggressive is relative her, they are in the middle of the SA range for aggressive but compared to what he has in that tank they are super aggressive). They are a good fit with jacks, severums, green terrors, texas blues etc. "
I can't say I agree with you on that count, I have had myself, as well as seen, many set-ups with firemouths in community tanks. Speaking from experience I would never put them on the same scale as JD's or Green Terrors at all. Will they eat smaller fish if they can fit in their mouth? Yes, so will many fish - such as angels. Will they become very territorial if they form a breeding pair? Again, yes absolutely, but so will many fish. They *can* be suitable for community aquaria if you are aware of what you're putting in the tank with them - single cichlid to avoid issues arising from a spawning pair, and bigger bodied tetras and fish like swordtails (no bite-sized fish). Also, not that it really makes a difference in their care requirements but JD's and Firemouths are actually CA cichlids, SA cichlids are oscars, angels, apistos, discus, rams.. etc.
I can't say I agree with you on that count, I have had myself, as well as seen, many set-ups with firemouths in community tanks. Speaking from experience I would never put them on the same scale as JD's or Green Terrors at all. Will they eat smaller fish if they can fit in their mouth? Yes, so will many fish - such as angels. Will they become very territorial if they form a breeding pair? Again, yes absolutely, but so will many fish. They *can* be suitable for community aquaria if you are aware of what you're putting in the tank with them - single cichlid to avoid issues arising from a spawning pair, and bigger bodied tetras and fish like swordtails (no bite-sized fish). Also, not that it really makes a difference in their care requirements but JD's and Firemouths are actually CA cichlids, SA cichlids are oscars, angels, apistos, discus, rams.. etc.
Return the Guppy, 2 yellow cichlids, 1 blue cichlid, 2 jack dempsy.
Add 3-4 more blue danios.
The single angel and single firemouth should be okay with the remaining stock.
Bala Shark should be fine in a 90 G.
What type of Gourami do you have? Some of them don't play well with others of their size.
Your platy should be okay by itself, but would be much more presentable in your smaller tanks.
Before you look into adding anything else than this, let your tank settle for a while. You're all new fishkeepers and probably want to take it easy on the stocking for a while until you really understand how this whole thing works.
Add 3-4 more blue danios.
The single angel and single firemouth should be okay with the remaining stock.
Bala Shark should be fine in a 90 G.
What type of Gourami do you have? Some of them don't play well with others of their size.
Your platy should be okay by itself, but would be much more presentable in your smaller tanks.
Before you look into adding anything else than this, let your tank settle for a while. You're all new fishkeepers and probably want to take it easy on the stocking for a while until you really understand how this whole thing works.
...hey everyone! Long time no talk (with some)
If I might make a suggestion (forgive me if it's already been made) but, speaking as someone who's been 'new' to this hobby several times in my life and one who just recently overcrowded the crap out of a 'new' 30 gallon... I will forever make 2 stocking recommendations for anyone with a tank 30+ gallons.
The Convict Cichlid and Gold Barbs. These two, in my opinion, amongst the litany of hardy tetras that are out there, are the best. They are active, brave and EXCEEDINGLY hardy. They will eat as many times a day as you want to feed them (although ONCE is plenty in nearly all situations) and they are not picky eaters. I have even put a small piece of lunch meat and pieces of lettuce in there and they will both go after it.
I have an almost full grown convict cichlid in my south american tropical community 30 gallon (see my signature) and he is the best. Yellow eyes, small yellow reflective spots on the lower stomach, shades and hints of blue in his fins and of course, gray and black stripes. Other than some african cichlids and the blue rams (another personal fave but NOT for beginners..) he is the closest you can get to an amazing tropical and even salt-water feel. He's active, has toughed out some precarious water situations and has given me his all throughout my trials and errors in the fish keeping hobby. I know they like to form pairs but I have one. In all my experimentation and research, having one is usually ok in a community and no one seems to bother him and vice versa. He will chase some of the other fish around but never actually bumps, nips or bites them. He sometimes schools with my blue rams and loves hanging out with the gold barbs. He hides, seeks, plays and comes to the front of the tank whenever I enter the room. I will be a convict cichlid owner until the day I die. I love them.
Gold barbs I would recommend for all of the same reasons except they truly are the most passive and hardy individuals I can imagine. They NEVER bother anyone. They are always swimming around and don't even always have to school together. They will eat whatever you give them and they can take a wide range of water parameters. They add a really great splash of intense yellow/orange color and can get along with pretty much any other fish species. Plus, for the goldfish lover in a lot of you (not me personally) these little guys are probably the closest you can get to goldfish without the mess, hassle and (in my opinion) cheesyness.. (don't mean to offend.. sorry!)
The only other things I would recommend for new tank stocking options are tetras. You pretty much, in most cases, have to be a sadistic, cold hearted, neglectful aquarist to kill off tetras. They can be susceptable to Ich at times, but can get through almost anything if you put a MINIMUM of 3 together, but will do VERY well in groups of 5 or more.
If I might make a suggestion (forgive me if it's already been made) but, speaking as someone who's been 'new' to this hobby several times in my life and one who just recently overcrowded the crap out of a 'new' 30 gallon... I will forever make 2 stocking recommendations for anyone with a tank 30+ gallons.
The Convict Cichlid and Gold Barbs. These two, in my opinion, amongst the litany of hardy tetras that are out there, are the best. They are active, brave and EXCEEDINGLY hardy. They will eat as many times a day as you want to feed them (although ONCE is plenty in nearly all situations) and they are not picky eaters. I have even put a small piece of lunch meat and pieces of lettuce in there and they will both go after it.
I have an almost full grown convict cichlid in my south american tropical community 30 gallon (see my signature) and he is the best. Yellow eyes, small yellow reflective spots on the lower stomach, shades and hints of blue in his fins and of course, gray and black stripes. Other than some african cichlids and the blue rams (another personal fave but NOT for beginners..) he is the closest you can get to an amazing tropical and even salt-water feel. He's active, has toughed out some precarious water situations and has given me his all throughout my trials and errors in the fish keeping hobby. I know they like to form pairs but I have one. In all my experimentation and research, having one is usually ok in a community and no one seems to bother him and vice versa. He will chase some of the other fish around but never actually bumps, nips or bites them. He sometimes schools with my blue rams and loves hanging out with the gold barbs. He hides, seeks, plays and comes to the front of the tank whenever I enter the room. I will be a convict cichlid owner until the day I die. I love them.
Gold barbs I would recommend for all of the same reasons except they truly are the most passive and hardy individuals I can imagine. They NEVER bother anyone. They are always swimming around and don't even always have to school together. They will eat whatever you give them and they can take a wide range of water parameters. They add a really great splash of intense yellow/orange color and can get along with pretty much any other fish species. Plus, for the goldfish lover in a lot of you (not me personally) these little guys are probably the closest you can get to goldfish without the mess, hassle and (in my opinion) cheesyness.. (don't mean to offend.. sorry!)
The only other things I would recommend for new tank stocking options are tetras. You pretty much, in most cases, have to be a sadistic, cold hearted, neglectful aquarist to kill off tetras. They can be susceptable to Ich at times, but can get through almost anything if you put a MINIMUM of 3 together, but will do VERY well in groups of 5 or more.
ummm convicts should be housed with other sa or ca cichlids but it seems you have a pretty nice one which can happen
on the topic of the fire mouth or sevrum for that matter as folks here like to suggest that as a community fish
i have kept both over the years (sold off my larger bodied fish a few years back) while you can get ones that do well in a community tank they SHOULD be housed with other aggressive species
not only are they aggressive they are also destroyers of aqua scape moving rocks lifting up plants etc etc etc
when we are talking to new fish keepers it is best to keep worst case scenerios in mind
convicts are too large for thirty gallon aquariums they are also on the aggressive side and should be kept with similar again are there fish out there who wont turn into murderous a holes yes is the convict a fish for a noobie? no
africans are fine and easy to keep (very hardy) but again not to be mixed with say platties etc they need african only tanks some species of catfish are ok with them but other then that
on the topic of the fire mouth or sevrum for that matter as folks here like to suggest that as a community fish
i have kept both over the years (sold off my larger bodied fish a few years back) while you can get ones that do well in a community tank they SHOULD be housed with other aggressive species
not only are they aggressive they are also destroyers of aqua scape moving rocks lifting up plants etc etc etc
when we are talking to new fish keepers it is best to keep worst case scenerios in mind
convicts are too large for thirty gallon aquariums they are also on the aggressive side and should be kept with similar again are there fish out there who wont turn into murderous a holes yes is the convict a fish for a noobie? no
africans are fine and easy to keep (very hardy) but again not to be mixed with say platties etc they need african only tanks some species of catfish are ok with them but other then that
Nanu, the problem with fishkeeping is that there is a lot of variation within individuals of any species. You seem convinced that firemouths are aggressive and aren't suitable for a community tank because of your personal experience. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for a larger community tank with the caveat that they should probably be kept singly and not with fish that can fit in their mouth, due to my personal experience. I won't convince you I am right and vice versa, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would support either of our arguments because of *their* personal experience.
If we are playing "worst case scenario", the problem is that you could do that for virtually any species and where would you draw the line? You shouldn't keep neons because they're finicky and die easily, you shouldn't keep livebearers or kribs or convicts because of their reproductive rate and what would you do with all the fry, you shouldn't keep angels because if they pair off they can cause havoc in your tank when breeding... See what I mean? There is no fish that's suitable for every fishkeeper and every situation, so if we're not recommending fish because someone somewhere had a bad experience with it then we might as well give up recommending anything.
If we are playing "worst case scenario", the problem is that you could do that for virtually any species and where would you draw the line? You shouldn't keep neons because they're finicky and die easily, you shouldn't keep livebearers or kribs or convicts because of their reproductive rate and what would you do with all the fry, you shouldn't keep angels because if they pair off they can cause havoc in your tank when breeding... See what I mean? There is no fish that's suitable for every fishkeeper and every situation, so if we're not recommending fish because someone somewhere had a bad experience with it then we might as well give up recommending anything.
SonofaGun while i have my own experiences to draw from I am also pretty involved with the Michigan Cichlid association as well as several pretty big time breeders, i have formulated my opinions on fish species over years of keeping fish and hanging around in the fish trade.
In the end the OP probably isn't returning much of his stock, and doesn't seem to be responding to the thread much anymore.
If you read what his desire was (a heavily stocked tank with lots of activity) it would lead you to believe that large fish aren't really what he is looking for.
My suggestions for more advanced fish keepers would be different but this guy obviously had no clue what he was getting into....
I doubt he is taking any of the advice he got here, but his best case scenario would be a heavy stocking order of hearty African cichlids or a heavy stocking of patties, tetras, etc. He isn't interested in fish that are going to grow up to be as big as your hand (read the thread)
As for my experience in the hobby or knowledge of fish well... take my advice or leave it, really not trying to impress you but when your firemouth grows up to eat your other fish up root your plans and move your gravel and plants all over your tank think of this advice again.
On the topic of the bala shark yeah the tank is more or less large enough for a group of three but between size and aggression issues that's about all you are going to get to house in that tank.
In the end the OP probably isn't returning much of his stock, and doesn't seem to be responding to the thread much anymore.
If you read what his desire was (a heavily stocked tank with lots of activity) it would lead you to believe that large fish aren't really what he is looking for.
My suggestions for more advanced fish keepers would be different but this guy obviously had no clue what he was getting into....
I doubt he is taking any of the advice he got here, but his best case scenario would be a heavy stocking order of hearty African cichlids or a heavy stocking of patties, tetras, etc. He isn't interested in fish that are going to grow up to be as big as your hand (read the thread)
As for my experience in the hobby or knowledge of fish well... take my advice or leave it, really not trying to impress you but when your firemouth grows up to eat your other fish up root your plans and move your gravel and plants all over your tank think of this advice again.
On the topic of the bala shark yeah the tank is more or less large enough for a group of three but between size and aggression issues that's about all you are going to get to house in that tank.