Cycling

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
0
0
Yelm, WA
#1
I have recently noticed a lot of “newbies to the forum” that apparently don’t understand what “cycle” means. I think there may be other members that could explain it better than I can, but I definitely can tell you what cycling is not: It is NOT filling a tank with water and letting it “age” for a while. Even most of the additives you pour in will not instantly cycle your tank - if they work at all. And - don’t take for granted an LFS (pet store) employee understands cycling or has a clue what you’re talking about. I have been there and done that! They simply gave me a blank look and “What do you want to do that for?” In fact one of the employees in Petsmart didn’t know they sold test kits and I had to find it myself. (They only had one in stock it turned out). There are several ways to cycle a tank - get media from an already cycled tank, use PURE ammonia, put a raw shrimp or piece of raw fish in, or do a fish in cycle. There is much already written about these methods if you will just use the search tool in this forum, BUT the main thing I want to point out is you need a test kit and that item is going to cost you about as much as the bare tank and so you may just as well bite the bullet and get it first. It is the most important piece of equipment you will own! Believe me - the test kit and water changes will save more fish than all the meds you can buy. :)
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#2
BUT the main thing I want to point out is you need a test kit and that item is going to cost you about as much as the bare tank and so you may just as well bite the bullet and get it first. It is the most important piece of equipment you will own! Believe me - the test kit and water changes will save more fish than all the meds you can buy. :)
I agree 200% with this part, Thyra! By the time you buy 2 or 3 fungus/internal parasite/fin-tail rot medications, you could have had the test kit. There is no substitute for proper water changes to keep any aquarium healthy, and the test kit can help you decide how much and how often to change out water.
 

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#4
what i have done for my tanks as well as for my friends when they get tanks is place a good used filter cratrage into the tank since the filter has loads of bacteria. put the fish in and within a week or so (i recomend 2 weeks) the tank is cycled. i have found that to be the easiest and most simple way to cycle a tank. if u do not have the option to do something like that the fishless or fish in cycle that can take up to 8 weeks is the option. when i first got into fish keeping my lfs was great at helping me and recomending things to do and still are. but they are a small family owned fish store thats been running in our area for 30 years. petsmart and petco and all of them i would take everything they say with a grain of salt. with my anti big box pet store comment out of the way lol i would recomend buying some bacteria to jump start the cycle. it will not cycle the tank but will at least get things started.

thats my input for a cycle

And thyra i think you did a very good job on that post. it realy hit the basics of what people need to start off with. i personally have found other ways that work for me for checking water quality and i no longer use test kits, though i don't recommend it, it's just something that works for me so i run with it, however i do keep test kits around just in case i happen to notice something with my fish. Also i have been keeping fish for about 10 years now and i've learned alot (not everything of course) but the most important thing i ever learned was about the cycling of a tank. when i was a kid we tried doing fish tanks and fish kept dying and my folks got tired of buying fish when they kept dying and also my brother and i got discouraged. If it was not for learning about the cycle when i decided to get a fish tank when i was 16 i have a feeling the same thing would have happened and probably given up. i truely belive for a beginner needs to learn about the cycle before they ever buy their first fish.
 

Last edited:

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#6
1 is just visual, clarity of the water, color of the fish, increased algea growth. my brichardi are realy good at telling me how the water is. 2 is by taking a good smell of the water. if it smells of dirt, sour, or just all around funky in even the slightest sense i do a water change. again it works for me and my fish are thick and healthy, breeding like rabbits, colorful, active, and it's been a long long time since i've had any desieses or other complications. now with ym saltwater when i had it i did all kinds of tests and weekly water changes and spent alot of time on that tank, my freshwater tanks though are pretty much on auto pilot and pay for themselves with the babies i sell.
 

#7
I'm looking at setting up my 34 litre tank later today and I may have some filter wool the tank my fish are currently in now -though it's not cycled I have to test the nitrate in it later today - that I'm moving this tank to after it's cycled, do I just put in the wool, wait a week or two and test the water for nitrate?
 

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#8
u want to test for nitrate and if u do the filter swap trick i mentioned the filter needs to come from a well established tank several months old or more. the bacteria live in the filter on ur deco and substrate. if you do this trick with a newer tank there will not be enough bacteria in the tank to keep up. starting out u want as much bacteria in the tank as u can get to keep things stabile. and if you do take a filter from a well establiched tank it's not a promise that it will instantly cycle the tank. but it WILL dramatically reduce the sevarity and durration of the cycle. i still recomend water changes every few days of 25-50% for a couple weeks and still moniter the ammonia and nitrites.
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#10
1 is just visual, clarity of the water, color of the fish, increased algea growth. my brichardi are realy good at telling me how the water is. 2 is by taking a good smell of the water. if it smells of dirt, sour, or just all around funky in even the slightest sense i do a water change. again it works for me and my fish are thick and healthy, breeding like rabbits, colorful, active, and it's been a long long time since i've had any desieses or other complications. now with ym saltwater when i had it i did all kinds of tests and weekly water changes and spent alot of time on that tank, my freshwater tanks though are pretty much on auto pilot and pay for themselves with the babies i sell.
Hello; Long before test kits became available as they exist now I learned to judge the state of a tank much like this. I still sniff my tanks and do a good visual.
Water testing has come a long way. In the 1970's while doing a directed field study on a couple of streams the methods were much more cumbersome. Some tests could be made on site and read immediately. For other tests I had to set the water chemically on site and then haul the water samples 2 1/2 hours to the lab to finish the readings.

It takes a while to educate a nose. Perhaps when a tank is tested with a kit or the maligned strips a fish keeper can sniff the water to get a sense of how that water quality actually smells. Over time an association should become apparent.
 

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
0
0
Yelm, WA
#11
The problem with the "sniff" test is by the time you can smell it, it is probably already too bad for the fish. Also if you swap filter media, etc. as OC states you have to feed the beneficial bacteria so you will still need to proceed with a cycling process like putting a couple of fish in, a raw shrimp, or pure ammonia -- then you need to be testing daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The tank does the cycling - your job, especially if you have a couple of fish in there - is to keep the ammonia and nitrite at zero by doing water changes and it is a daily job until the nitrate shows up.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#12
For ammonia:

The human nose cannot detect ammonia until it hits about 5ppm, which makes detecting it by scent alone unreliable. At that concentration, the gills of the fish are already being damaged.

Ammonia is colorless, so visually inspecting the water will not show its ammonia concentration either.

For Nitrite (deadlier than ammonia at the same concentrations):

Nitrite, dissolved in water, is tasteless, odorless and colorless. It cannot be detected by the taste, scent, or visually.

Although there are a lot of ways to keep an aquarium healthy, I personally don't think that advising someone on the 'Beginner' section of the forum to rely on the human senses to determine if the water of their aquarium is healthy for the fish they keep.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#13
Although there are a lot of ways to keep an aquarium healthy, I personally don't think that advising someone on the 'Beginner' section of the forum to rely on the human senses to determine if the water of their aquarium is healthy for the fish they keep.
Sentence cut off (likely user error on my part!): Should read:

Although there are a lot of ways to keep an aquarium healthy, I personally don't think that advising someone on the 'Beginner' section of the forum to rely on the human senses to determine if the water of their aquarium is healthy for the fish they keep is such a good idea.
 

#14
u want to test for nitrate and if u do the filter swap trick i mentioned the filter needs to come from a well established tank several months old or more. the bacteria live in the filter on ur deco and substrate. if you do this trick with a newer tank there will not be enough bacteria in the tank to keep up. starting out u want as much bacteria in the tank as u can get to keep things stabile. and if you do take a filter from a well establiched tank it's not a promise that it will instantly cycle the tank. but it WILL dramatically reduce the sevarity and durration of the cycle. i still recomend water changes every few days of 25-50% for a couple weeks and still moniter the ammonia and nitrites.
Alright thanks.

Simply moving filter media to a new tank and waiting a week or two will not 'cycle' the tank. You will need to feed the beneficial bacteria.
How do I feed it? Will putting in Stress Zyme+ which says it has millions of live bacteria in it, help the tank any? Once the tank has cycled, it will have a reading of 20 for nitrate? What level is it good enough to put the fish in?
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#16
Alright thanks.


How do I feed it? Will putting in Stress Zyme+ which says it has millions of live bacteria in it, help the tank any? Once the tank has cycled, it will have a reading of 20 for nitrate? What level is it good enough to put the fish in?
Hello; The beneficial bacteria (bb) will use any source of ammonia for nutrition. This can be waste from living things such as fish, snails and I suspect plants. Other suggested ways to get ammonia include adding it from a bottle of ammonia and allowing something to decay in the tank. Some have posted that they throw a piece of shrimp or some fish food in an empty tank and let it rot.
An issue with getting enough bb in a brand new setup is that it takes a while for the bb colonies to reproduce to sufficient numbers. This is likely why you were told that the tank was not cycled in a couple of weeks.

My take from what has been posted so far is that you did what many new to the hobby have done. That is you added too many fish too soon. On top of this new fish keepers often tend to feed too much food which adds to the excess ammonia and also other decay products.

If you once get a tank established then it will be much easier to set up a second as there will be a rich source of bb in the established tank. I have not had to set up a tank from scratch for a very long time.

I believe you already have some fish in the tank. It may be worth considering not adding any more fish until the colonies of bb have shown to be adequate enough to remove the ammonia. In this, the suggested use of a water test kit is sound advice.
Leave the filter media alone unless it gets so clogged that there is very little flow. If that happens you may well be overfeeding.
As suggested, keep up with water changes in order to dilute the ammonia and give the fish some relief.

At some point the tank will be cycled/established. Then you can add a few fish at a time.
Why a few at a time? Every time you add more fish or feed too much the ammonia load increases. It takes the bb a while to increase in population to handle the extra ammonia. In a cycled tank there are enough bb colonies for this to happen more quickly than in a newly set up tank.

As you have already witnessed there are differing opinions about how to run a tank. Some tend to push their point of view very strongly. I do not know how a person with little experience can know which advice is sound. One thing is fairly certain and that is that fish shop employees are very prone to give poor advice.
As for advice from these fish forums, perhaps a few searches to confirm a suggestion may help. I started keeping tanks over 50 years ago and had an information source like this been around it would have saved me from a lot of mistakes. I do not know how to resolve the issue of which advice to follow for you, but even with the differences there are gems of good fish keeping knowledge to be had.
 

skjl47

Large Fish
Nov 13, 2010
712
0
0
Northeastern Tennessee.
#17
Hello; Just to be clear in case my previous post seemed to suggest it, you do not need to add a source of ammonia. You already seem to have ammonia from the fish in the tank. Now it seems likely that you need water changes to dilute the ammonia untill the bb can populate the tank.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
0
36
#20
I would like to know the source of information you have, skjl47, that shows that plants produce any source of nitrogen as a waste product of growth.

The biology and ecology education I have taken in college states that organic nitrogen compounds are produce by animals as waste and by bacteria (and fungus) in the decaying process of animal or plant biomass.

This link is helpful to understand the nitrogen cycle of the environment in general.

Nitrogen Cycling: Manure in the Mix « Terrain for Schools Curriculum Guide, Fall 2005 « Ecology Center
 

Last edited: