fish dying/ test strips and a couple other questions

[brian1973]

Hey all, I am rather new to fish keeping but i did alot of research before I set up 1 20gal and 1 30gal tank 7 months ago ,all well until a mass die off in the 30gal tank over the last couple weeks. The thing is that I test the water regularly with Junge labs 6 in 1 test strips.... but even with the mass fish die off everything tested fine by thse strips. Are the strips worth the money or should i just invest in a test kit. I wrote the company shortly after purchasing them because my kids accidently ruined the result comparison chart and i wanted a replacement chart but they said they didnt have one so they sent 3 test kits for free (20 strips in each i believe), thought that was cool but now it seems there product may just be cheap enough that they dont care about giving it away.

Also has anyone used Melafix antibiotics with any positive results. I am using it to treat the remaining fish that survide the mass die off, I tried another medicine that they have to consume but they wont eat it so I need something to treat the entire tank.

Also I noticed that when my smaller fish (3 month to 4 month old mollies) died they just dropped during the mass die off but the larger older fish focused on the heater (head facing the heater) and swam fast without moving (like running in place for us). Is it possible the heater is giving out small eletrical charges that I cant feel but affected the smaller fish very rapidly? But i tend to doubt this since the survivors are 8 young mollies ranging from 3/4 long to 1 1/2in long. Some of which are showing the fast swimming in place symptom. These fish all lived in the 30gal tank for 2 months with no ill effects. and the older fish had been there since august.

Cant find any real reason for the mass die off so i am at a loss.
Thanks in advance.

 

[cchase85]

Melafix is a good general medicine for stuff.

It is possible that it is some chemical killing your fish, and not nitrogen related.

It is possible the heater is shocking fish, as well.

In any case, you should post your ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite levels as it is helpful to know these to begin diagnosing potential culprits.

 

[d3sc3n7]

I agree with everything cchase85 said, however I would like to add...investing in a API master test kit, or something similar is not only going to give you much more accurate results...it is acctully cheaper in the long run. The strips come in a pack of 20 or so, but you pay what, about $10? So, that 80 tests for $40. The API mater kit gives you 800 tests for $30. You tell me which is a better deal.

 

[brian1973]

will be buying a better test kit tonight, but the 30gal has been drained cleaned and beginning the cycling process again also replaced heater and used filter from another tank to hopefully speed up the cycling process. Moved the survivors to a 10gal and am keeping them under observation, but I did move the heater from the 30gal to the 10gal. figured this would work ok but the temp is staying very low (non adjustable 30gal tank heater, made by tetra i believe) so i think the heater may be a big problem plus a better adjstable heater is about the same price,going to replace it to see what happens.
I understand the chemical concern but the same water source is used to change both tanks without ill effects on the other tank.
the 20GAL is constantly cloudy due to 1 large pleco that overloads the system and I have had no losses in that tank, young Mollies lived happily there until a few weeks ago when I decided to thin out my mollie population, had over 100 due to a pregnant female.

I can tell you that the reading according to test strips where 20-40ppm for nitrate 0 for nitrite. I do not know the ammonia reading.

 

[OdeToBlitzkrieg]

That's pretty high for Nitrate, not sure if that level would actually be deadly. How often are your water changes?

 

[brian1973]

weekly water changes of 20%. the reading on the test strip shows the nitrate to be well within the safe zone but then again I dont know for sure. Plus I am doubting the reliability of these strips.

 

[TabMorte]

Melafix is great stuff (I use it any time my fishes fins get nipped or when ever I'm introducing new fish to the tank - it seems to reduce stress as well as being an antibiotic).

Also do you have a copper test on your strips. It could be copper, it could also be a spike in local chlorine concentration. Most municiple water sources are 'shocked' with extra chlorine and chlorimine at least once a year and at the higher levels water treatments like decholorinizers aren't as effective as they normaly are.

If you had 100 mollies in a 30G tank it could have just been over population as well. That seems way dense.

The way you describe it though it does sound like your heater. For you 10G you can pick up a pretty reliable adjustable heater for fairly cheap. Mine were like $16/peice and I've never had an issue with them.

I have the Nutrafin (Hagens) freshwater master test kid and I rather like that one it wasn't too expensive - about $30 for about 100 tests.

 

[pwrmacG4]

i bought the api master kit at petsupply plus for 15.98. that is a good deal. you should look up and see if there are any stores near you. a biowheel filter for a 30 gal tank is only 19.00

 

[brian1973]

thanks the mollies where spread between 2 tanks until the intro of a small oscar into the 20gal tank. Mollie population was roughly 20 yes still high but they were all small at the time of the crash. 5 remaining mollies, yes i know the bioload was high but the problem didnt occur until the load was reduced. plus as i said there were no fatalities in the 20g which with the pleco is constantly needing water changes. The oscar will be moving into the 30g while I build a stand for a 100g tank that I have in the garage. This will become the new home for the Oscar and Pleco, and 2 striped rapheal cats maybe 1 more oscar also

 

[brian1973]

Ok I went out and bought the API Master test kit here are the finding which by the way other than the inability to test for ammonia the test strip results where identical. also tested for chlorine.
20 gallon tank
chlorine- 0
Ph 7.6
ammonia 0
nitrate 40ppm
nitrite-0

10gal temp housing
identical to 20 gal except nitrates where .5ppm

So I think my issue is definatley related to either the heater or a disease that was transmitted by the addition of the plants. If anyone has any other ideas please share them with me.

Thanks all for the help.

Brian

 

[d3sc3n7]

Well, I'd pull the heater and give it a good look. One little crack in there, and it can easily give your fish a shocking experience. If not the heater, then that leaves either the plants...or something the test kits dont test for. Something bacterial or viral.

 

[brian1973]

I think I may of figured out the problem, Oxygen levels may have been low, I was depending on the filter to oxygenate the water, well when I change the water I filled it up completely and with the fish load I didnt even consider this factor, the 20gal tank canopy doesnt seal as well so evaporation is more rapid so this one is always breaking the water tension. I added an airstone to the 10gal tank this evening (which is completely filled to the lip on the filter) and a fish that was breathing but on its side at the bottom of the tank has begun to perk up, not sure if he will make it but i am hopeful. I have also added airstones to all the aquariums, hopefully this is the fix I was looking for. I sure do feel stupid if this fixes it, but Thanks for the help regardless. I am going to continue with the Melafix just in case.

 

[brian1973]

well that wasnt the issue, so I guess i am going to continue treatment, still need to replace heater, but I am going to just let it go and stop worring about it and just see what happens. May sound cruel but I have invested to much time into stressing about these guys, I will continue to cycle the 30gal and prepare it for new fish, because either way these fish are not going back into the 30gal. If by some chance they get better I will lt you know. Thanks for everyones help i do appreciate it.

 

[roark fishies]

yeah, I kept getting the message that the drops are better than strips so I went out and bought some for nitrites and nitrates. I can't tell that they are any better besides that they are cheaper in the long run.

 

[brian1973]

Ok i have to ask, last night i had one definately struggling, but the rest seemed ok, this morning all ok, after work 3 dead, is it possible for water to be overly oxygenated excuse me for my stupid questions but I am using a larger air pump in the tank the top of the tank has a significant amount of bubble on it 75% covered in bubbles

 

[brian1973]

more dead

Ok, I think the rest are going to survive what ever is killing them but I lost 3 more mollies and my second bumblebee catfish , what I noticed this time was the catfish seemed to be covered in a white mucos/slime for about 12 hours before he died and was laying on the bottom breathing heavy, most of the mollies that did before where marble (dalmation) mollies and were mostly black but one of the ones that died this time was primarily white and I noticed that when I removed him from the tank he was pink towards the back of his body, I gues it is posible that the pleco shewed on him but I didnt notice any damage other than the pinkish coloration, I put him in a ziploc for a day and when I took the bag out of the fridge the bag had some red/brown (blood?) colored water in it. Any ideas what this might be, hopefully me descriptions are understandable.
Thanks Brian
PS the Pleco is starting to show signs of the mucos/slime. and all water testes are fine still.

 

[TabMorte]

I was just reading an artical on practicalfishkeeper.co.uk about nitrate and how it's actually one of the most common killers of fish. It reminded me of your tank. What happens is your fish seem fine because the levels have creeped up slowly over a long time but it DOES stress them out and weaken their immune system. I expect finally with the bioload you've got there (and the way WAY high nitrate levels) this is what happened to you and then one fish develops a disease and it's spread around your whole tank.

If you have a quarentine tank you need to get some of those fish out of there and into it and you need to be doing huge water changes daily to get that nitrate under control, test everything daily and be VERY careful about cross contamination between tanks. Unfortunitly this is sort of natural selection killing off the population of a way over crowded tank. You can do damage control but it may be too late for most of the fish in there.

 

[brian1973]

I appreciate your comments but everything that I can find shows 0 thru 40ppm being acceptable levels of nitrates, as does both test kits I have API master kit and jungle labs strips, So where r u getting the info that I have WAY WAY high Nitrate levels. Numerous sites I found show that 80ppm is the beginning of the unsafe levels. But regardless when the nitrates reach 40 the water is changed (20%) which brings it down to about 10ppm.
Also if you read all my posts you would have seen the fish where moved into another tank and that nitrate lvel is at .5ppm. and you would also see that the "quarantine" tank is not overcrowded. the reamining count is 3 small Mollies, 3 mickey mouse platys, 1 pleco, I added two healthy mollies and two more platys as test fish, the mollies died in 72hrs. Remaining fish count is 3 Mollies (all under an inch) 3 platys, 1 small pleco.

 

[TabMorte]

I did miss your post saying it was the QT that has 40ppm nitrates. IMO that's still too high (especially if you're using the strips which aren't as reliable as the drops). At least it's down now. I wouldn't put any fish in that tank that aren't already sick. Poor little guys.

 

[brian1973]

I dont disagree that 40ppm may be to high but I can not find anything stating this as fact other than many opinions listed on forums, which from what I have found vary from 0 being the only safe level to 40 being safe.

And not to sound like a broken record but in a previous comment I stated I bought and used an API master test kit which I compared the reading to the test srips and results were identical. Also in this kit it states on Page 18 of the test instruction manual "A nitrate level of 40 ppm (mg/L) or less is recommended for freshwater aquariums".