Frontosa and Malawi???

[Milo]

Does anyone know if the Frontosa cichlids go well with other malawian cichlids?

I purchased a frontosa a while back and he didn't do well. I did a complete change around in my tank even added a new rock, i fed the fish before i put the frontosa in and also put in other feeder fish so the cichlids would be "busy". Anyways the frontosa didn't do well so we brought him back to the lfs. I figured it was beause he was a little bitt smaller then the rest of the tank.

Any thoughts?

 

[Milo]

Does anyone know if the Frontosa cichlids go well with other malawian cichlids?

I purchased a frontosa a while back and he didn't do well. I did a complete change around in my tank even added a new rock, i fed the fish before i put the frontosa in and also put in other feeder fish so the cichlids would be "busy". Anyways the frontosa didn't do well so we brought him back to the lfs. I figured it was beause he was a little bitt smaller then the rest of the tank.

Any thoughts?

 

[Pure]

www.google.com

Fronts get huge and need to be in groups.

I give the link because you need to do a lot more research if your even asking this question.

 

[Milo]

Yikes, that was helpful. I hope I get a little more assistance from the other people on this board.

Actually I have done a lot of research on the Frontosa's and am actually getting mixed answers. I know they need a big tank but that was not my question.

Does anyone know if the Frontosa cichlids go well with other Malawian cichlids?I have done research on the Frontosa and have read mostly that they do not go well, but then I am told that the Frontosa's are not as aggressive as Malawian cichlids but can hold their own.

Also not sure if this would help, the Frontosa is a adult as the other Malawi fish are around 1/2 inch - 2 inches.

I want to end this off by saying that I am not some little girl who decided to buy a bunch of "pretty" fish and stick them together in a 5 gal tank. I have a 70 gal tank with 10 Malawian cichlids 1 pleco and 1 red tail shark. The tank has been running now only about 4 months and wanted to do some research on the Frontosa before just shoving him in there. As always the answers I get on GOGGLE are a little different from website to website, and everyone knows that you can't really trust the LFS. The Frontosa comes from a friend of mine who owns a distributing centre in Innisville, Ontario. He sells to major fish stores in Ontario and he let me know that due to the size the Frontosa should be ok. I wanted to find out for sure before I stuck the Frontosa in the tank just to wake up in the morning to find him dead.

GOD HELP THE NEXT PERSON WHO COMES ONTO A MESSAGE BOARD FOR HELP!

 

[FroggyFox]

ok easy there Milo. When you make a post with minimal information you would not be the first person to show up here without doing any research whatsoever...so you really can't blame someone for at least responding to your inquiry.

Do you mean the frontosa that you're getting will be one? or a group. As Pure stated they really need to be in groups. I'm not a big cichlid person, so it may be best to wait until Cman or Orion or one of our other cichlid folks has a moment to get to your question.

 

[Milo]

Thanks Froggyfox for your reply,

*Breath*Breath*Breath*

My friend is going to be selling me adults for $6.00cdn. each. Aslong as the Frontosa does well with the other fish in the tank then I will keep him and get more. From what I could get online is that it is best to keep a 3:1 ratio. I do not want to purchase more frontosas untill I atleast find out weather or not they go well together. I was hoping someone from here could let me know.

Thanks or sorry for the ranting and raving

 

[FroggyFox]

No problem. While you're waiting for more replies specific to your situation you might use the little search button up there and look around for previous conversations we've had on the board about each of those types of cichlids. I dont specifically remember anyone trying to put fronts with malawis...but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Now there are a lot of fish in malawi...do you mean you have mbuna? What type(s) do you already have specifically?

I think generally a colony of fronts is reccomended for a good size tank (75ish), and I would think that if you were going to mix two very different types it would be better to have a MUCH bigger tank. There are also a lot of cichlid keepers who have good reasoning behind their theories of keeping major types seperate from each other...ie not mixing SA cichlids with Africans etc.

 

[Pure]

Easy there trigger. I didn't say you were a little girl. Sorry if I offended you. The information out there available about these fish is VERY precise and non conflicting. They get big, they need to be in groups. They are timid compared to other Malawi so not the best choice to be put with other very aggressive fish. (that last part is just common sense) But with them the same holds true as with every other fish out there. Big fish eat little fish. So your Fronts may get picked on if small, and if large they will simply eat your other Malawi.

With males getting over 15 inches long and females a foot, you would need at least a 125 for 3. Your current tank can house one with no other fish.

If you had given a little more info and not double posted the way you did I would not have responded the way I did. Sorry I try to help everyone, but even I can be short at times.

 

[Orion]

With out knowing what kind of malawi cichlids your talking about it's difficult to say. My first thought is the diet needs of the fish. Fronts need lots of protein in their diet, while for example mbuna needs less protein and more veggie matter. So with both of these type of fish in the same tank then you'll be doing someone wrong.

Size. A 70 gallon isn't really enough room for just a few adult fronts and nothing else in the tank, much less other fish. Generaly speaking fronts are best left to very long and wide tanks.

So it could work for a short while, but in the long run I think it would be best to not get any fronts to put into this tank.

 

[kay-bee19]

Frontosa's do best in groups (4-6 minimum, which pretty much defaults to a requirement of having a 125-gal+ tank for them and their tank mates). These fish grow relatively slow after year one, but get huge over time (9-12"+).

I wouldn't recommend keeping them with lake malawi african cichlids like mbuna (which are more aggressive and generally require a different type of diet). Any attempt to house them with other than compatible lake tanganyika cichlids should be done with caution.

Under the "with caution" caveat, I do have a frontosa/malawi 'hap' set-up (similar diets and the fronts were established in the tank way before most of the other fish). So far so good. The frontosa's primarily interact with each other and the haps generally ignore them (preferring instead to interact with the other haps).

Sample pic: (kigoma frontosa and malawi blue dolphin side by side)

 

[Milo]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for everyones reply. First I'll let everyone know what I have in the tank.

1 what I thinkis a Pseudotropheus Zebra
2 Melanochromis Johannii
2 Pseudotropheus Lombardoi
1 P. Demsasoni
1 Red top zebra
1 Redtail Shark
1 Pleco
1 Red zebra

My friend ended up by comming over yesterday with the front. (oh by the way, he is not full grown, maybe around 3 inches) I did a complete cleaning of the tank (Removed all the rocks and cleaned under there, otherwise once a week i just do a 25% water change) rearranged all the rocks when i put them back and shut off all the lights. I fed the cichlids before i did the water change aswell as after cleaning I put some salts in to calm them down.

Well the other cichlids took right to the front, to be exact it was the Lombardoi's who went right to him. My husband and I decided to go to the LFS and see what we should do. ie get more fronts, buy feeders, anything to put into the tank. He basically told me that to buy more fronts was not an option because they only had baby fronts that wouldn't do much, and that we should concider buying 2 more cichlids. Actually Kay-bee we were going to pick up a dolphine, but decided against it.

Anyways, when I got home the Front was in good condition, no visible markings or damage. He seemed to be stressed out though. I let the bags sit in the tank for about 20 minutes before i let the fish in. I put the feeders in first, then the other 2 cichlids kept the light off and went to bed.
Woke up this morning to the front having visible fin damage, the feeders still alive and the other 2 cichlids feeling right at home.

I will wait untill tonight before I can figure out if the front will go well with my tank. That guy who gave me the front said that if anything should happen he will take it back and exchange him for a different cichlid.

 

[kay-bee19]

I will wait untill tonight before I can figure out if the front will go well with my tank.

The frontosa is definately an incompatible addition to your tank (your tank being a fairly aggressive mbuna set-up based on the species you currently have).

The mbuna you have are highly capable of out-classing the frontosa in aggression and will probably out-compete it during feeding time, negatively affecting growth rate (frontosa's are easily intimidated).

 

[Milo]

Hi everyone,

Well the frontosa has been in the tank for about 3 days now and seems to be doing fine. Like I said earlier, the other cichlids looked to be picking on him when he first went into the tank so I went and purchsed 2 more cichlids and 3feeder fish and they don't bother him much anymore.

kay-bee19 - even during feeding time, i see the frontosa getting a fair share of the cichlid flake. I did notice that he doesn't go up to the top to eat but rather middle range of the tank and waits for the food to come down. I didn't think much of it because even some of the fish wait until the food drop to the bottom.

If the frontosa doesn't go well with the fish i currently have in my tank, why would my friend let me have him for free? He is a fish distributor and would know if they would go well or not. He did let me know that if anything should happen that he would take the front back and replace with another.

Thanks everyone,

I'll give you all an update again.

 

[Lilly_pad]

its possible but the frontosa should be considerably bigger and question....
did you completely rearrange the tank before you put in the frontosa? Anytime you introduce any fish into a cichlid tank you must re arrange the tank inorder to put all fish on an even keel. fish claim terrirories and any new addition will surely be a target collectively by all fish including aggressive mbuna. I have seen several frontosa in many a african cichlid tank. The common them however is Frontosa size vs african size. In an adult 4000 gallon tank... Ive seen a 12 inch frontosa doing extremely well with zebras electric yellow yadda yadda yadda..but they were considerably larger.

So long your frontosa does well I believe there is a potential problem in your tank.... the red tail shark.... 4 month old tank im assuming your africans are 2 inches approximately... Once they get bigger... say good bye to the shark.

Also you can definately get away with more africans in your (75g?). This will definately spread the aggression around.

good luck!

 

[Milo]

HI Lilly Pad,

Well you definitly know your stuff. Its a 70 gal, the frontosa is doing fine, actually going to the top of the tank to eat with the rest of the cichlids, but noticed that the red tail shark is getting the wrost end of the stick. Which i find extremly strange, because everyone I know with a cichlid tank has atleas 1 red tail shark in there. My inlaws have a south african tank and a red tail shark for about 2 1/2 years now and everything has been great. They told me that once the Jack Dempsey was attacking the red tail and he got seriously injured but came back.

I always rearrange the tank when i introduce a new fish. The way it goes is once a week i do a 25% water change (every friday) and then once a month i will take out all the rocks and clean under there and re arrange the rocks back. It just so happened that when i got the front i had to do a "big" water change. (rearrange the rocks) Also, when i introduce a new fish, i keep all the lights off for 24 hours, as to reduce the stress, as well as I feed the cichlids before introducing the new fish. Also, not sure if this helps or not but whenever I do a water change I add salts to the tank. Apparently it is to help calm them down as well as get rid of any parasites (cross your fingers as to there not being any) and aslo to help restore fin damage, if there is any. Oh and sometimes when I introduce a new fish I will throw in a feeder fish to get their attention off of the new cichlid. So far as worked without any problems.

The front is by no means full grown, he is about 3 - 4 inches right now with the rest of the tank being at 2 inches. I have heard the fronts can be pretty slow growers so hopefully the rest of the tank won't out grow him.

I feel that if worse comes to worse and the front ends up by getting attacked I will have to put him into my 45g tank (Not currently set up, needs all new equipment) But, hopefully that day won't come.

Thanks everyone, sorry for the long post.

 

[wayne]

I have a very good argument that this is not a good idea. As a note Frontosa are NOT from lake malawi.

But if they were, they would eat your mbuna. Because that's what they eat - little fish. And sooner or later, that's what it would do in your tank - it would eat your mbuna right up , with a mouth that's much bigger than you think.

 

[FishGeek]

I might be confused but didnt you come here to get info on wether it would be a good idea to get this new fish??? We told you our answer and you go and do it anyway. I do give tabs for introducing a fish properly;however, you cant change the nature of a fish. Also the reason that the Red Tailed Shark is getting a beating is because they are not compatible with Cichlids. IMO its no different than throwing an Angel in a tank full of Convicts.

 

[cinlnk]

And now ...... you know the REST of the story..........

Milo,
My congrats on how WELL you take care of your tank and fish. Sounds like a great routine. BUT,WHY did you come on here, ask for advice..... and COMPLETELY do the opposite of what the many great cichlid keepers on this site tell you? Alot of them have been keeping cichlids for years. Experience IS the BEST TEACHER.
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents, maybe 3.

 

[cinlnk]

Sample pic: (kigoma frontosa and malawi blue dolphin side by side)

OMG WHAT A PRETTY PIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *SUNSMILE*
I saved that for my Wallpaper!!

 

[Milo]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of your advice on the who Malawi /Frontosa situation. But to tell the truth I think i am more confused then before i came on the board. I'll explaine. I came on asking weather or not the 2 breeds of fish would go well with each other, Time and Time again everyone told me that it would infact be the Malawi's that caused the havoc because of their Nature and Breed. Which is fine, I can understand (and can see for myself) that the frontosa is alot calmer then the malawi's are. Usually the Frontosa stays in his spot near some rocks unless I am feeding then he comes out. But now your telling me that it will be the front that causes the havoc by eating my fish. (? a little confused at that one).

Second, I came on the baord to ask if the 2 will go well together. I said that a friend of mine who owns a fish store (sells wholesale only to LFS) gave him to me. I informed him of the fish that I had and he said that he would go well with my tank. I also told him that I had previously tried to get a frontosa but my tank just wouldn't take him in. I figured this was due to the fact that the tank had been running for a few months now and that all the fish had "claimed" their territory. So I brought him back to the LFS and replaced him with a demasoni (little darling... I LOVE HIM) Anyways, my friend said that he would be fine in the tank, that I should just do the routine of adding a new fish. I figured this time I would get a larger frontosa (hes only about 4 inches while the largest malawi is about 3) and I went to the LFS and purchased 2 more cichlids to go into the tank as well as 3 feeders (hoping this would draw less attention to the front)

Anyways, I did not come onto the board, ask for your advice and do the opposite. I stated that i was getting one and wanted to know if they could go well together or not. By the time I got any response from anyone (the next day) it was to late and the front was already in my tank. I don't want people to think that I came on here got advice i didn't want so did the opposite of what you said. That is not the case at all. The front was given to me, he seemed to be doing good in the tank (still is) so i kept him. My friend also informed me that if anything should happen to the front he would take him back.

I understand what everyone is saying about the Malawi's and the Fronts being in the same tank. The Front will be alot larger in the Tank then the Malawi's and the Malawi's are more aggressive then the front. Makes sense not to have them together because someone is going to die. I do keep an eye on them every day. To tell you the truth there have been times when one of my malawi's have bothered my front but I would have to say that it is no more then when one of my malawi's bothered another malawi fish. They are all doing fine in the tank. Together. I thank you all for your advice as i do respect it and do keep it in mind when i do my daily chores with my fish. I keep a stronger eye on my front then I would any other fish to make sure he is ok. If the time ever came that I had to remove him from the tank, then I would but untill then I don't see any reason why he can't stay in the tank already set up.