Ich can still be a symptom brought on by stress though. I'm not saying stress is the only factor but it is a leading cause to open a fish to the possibility of getting Ich. obviously if Ich is not in the water the fish can't get it. but Ich can and does slide through on occasion even if quarantine tanks are used. and stress will make them venerable to getting infected. and most people do not quarantine such as myself and I know the little spores are in my water. if my fish get Ich I know it will have been brought on by stress due to my overstocking. weather u want to believe it or not stress is one of the main causes of Ich by lowering the fishes immune system providing an opening for the Ich to attack.
Gold fish lying still at bottom and sometimes at an inclined position
- Thread starter manojvaz
- Start date
exhumed07 - I do not wish to argue and will say no more after this post, but the information given above was not entirely correct. Ich is not CAUSED BY nor is it a SYMPTOM of stress.
I do not dispute that ich can be induced by stress on a fish, but stress alone does not cause an ich infestation. Ich must be in the environment for any fish to catch it. Even fish with perfectly fine immune systems will become infected, if the spore count is high enough. Ich often attaches to the gills of healthy fish, since the gill tissue has no slime coat to act as a barrier.
If you do a proper quarantine on new fish and plants (or anything that will be in the aquarium), there is not a way to develop ich due to any future stress.
You say you do not quarantine and that is your choice.
I've been keeping fish since the early 70s, and have never had a case if ich develop. I've had between 1 and 14 aquariums at any given time, from 5gallons to 220gallons. I have treated ich twice, but in both cases (one a marine tank, one a freshwater tank), the fish arrived in my care with the disease already present. I've even had power outages in the winter, with no way to keep the tanks warm and had temps dip into the 60s for several days (air temp in the 40s). Than winter, I lost about 25% of my fish, but no fish developed ich.
I've helped others treat ich with great success, especially if its caught early, so I'm not unfamiliar how to treat it. If you have no ich in your aquarium, no amount of stress will cause ich to suddenly appear.
I do not dispute that ich can be induced by stress on a fish, but stress alone does not cause an ich infestation. Ich must be in the environment for any fish to catch it. Even fish with perfectly fine immune systems will become infected, if the spore count is high enough. Ich often attaches to the gills of healthy fish, since the gill tissue has no slime coat to act as a barrier.
If you do a proper quarantine on new fish and plants (or anything that will be in the aquarium), there is not a way to develop ich due to any future stress.
You say you do not quarantine and that is your choice.
I've been keeping fish since the early 70s, and have never had a case if ich develop. I've had between 1 and 14 aquariums at any given time, from 5gallons to 220gallons. I have treated ich twice, but in both cases (one a marine tank, one a freshwater tank), the fish arrived in my care with the disease already present. I've even had power outages in the winter, with no way to keep the tanks warm and had temps dip into the 60s for several days (air temp in the 40s). Than winter, I lost about 25% of my fish, but no fish developed ich.
I've helped others treat ich with great success, especially if its caught early, so I'm not unfamiliar how to treat it. If you have no ich in your aquarium, no amount of stress will cause ich to suddenly appear.
OrangeCones, could you please elaborate on "always use a quarantine tank"? Now that I have no fishes how do I acheive this? How could ich be present in water? By ich, do you mean a parasite that would be present irrespective of the water(RO/ground water/well water)? How to treat fish for ich.?
Could you also let know which water is best for a fresh water aquarium? water from RO process or from Water Softner or well water or water pumped from underground via submersible pump(well water and this are one and the same I believe, except we may have to fetch the well water out ourselves). Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank
Could you also let know which water is best for a fresh water aquarium? water from RO process or from Water Softner or well water or water pumped from underground via submersible pump(well water and this are one and the same I believe, except we may have to fetch the well water out ourselves). Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank
I'm not OC but I think I can answer this.
I use a QT for my 125 gallon because of the time and money spent on it. So when I get a new fish I put him in my 10 gallon QT. I then crank up the heat to 86. I also treat with an internal parasite med as well. Then after a month of the fish being visibly healthy I add him to the 125g.
OC is right. Ich is a contracted parasite. It does not lie dormant waiting for the right moment to strike. It can't survive that way. It is a parasite and must always be feeding and reproducing. It is possible to have it present and not see the white spots that are generally associated with it, but that means your fish have sufficient slime coats to repell the parasite. However it will in such cases live in the gills. And the symptom of that will be your fish violently rubbing against objects, aka flashing.
If you leave no fish in that tank for ten days, the parasite will die and you will not have ich anymore. If you understand the life cycle of the parasite, you understand how to never get it. Based on my personal experience, any fish from the chains, you have a 50/50 shot of getting ich. Two weeks ago I bought a few fish, one from my trusted cichlid supplier, and three from Petsmart (glo barbs). My cichlid that was in QT does not have ich. The glo barbs that I did not QT and put right into my sons' 30gallon brought ich with them and now the whole tank has it (which I am currently heat treating).
This article was referred to me back when I had run ins with ich. It offers a great analysis of the parasite.
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
I use a QT for my 125 gallon because of the time and money spent on it. So when I get a new fish I put him in my 10 gallon QT. I then crank up the heat to 86. I also treat with an internal parasite med as well. Then after a month of the fish being visibly healthy I add him to the 125g.
OC is right. Ich is a contracted parasite. It does not lie dormant waiting for the right moment to strike. It can't survive that way. It is a parasite and must always be feeding and reproducing. It is possible to have it present and not see the white spots that are generally associated with it, but that means your fish have sufficient slime coats to repell the parasite. However it will in such cases live in the gills. And the symptom of that will be your fish violently rubbing against objects, aka flashing.
If you leave no fish in that tank for ten days, the parasite will die and you will not have ich anymore. If you understand the life cycle of the parasite, you understand how to never get it. Based on my personal experience, any fish from the chains, you have a 50/50 shot of getting ich. Two weeks ago I bought a few fish, one from my trusted cichlid supplier, and three from Petsmart (glo barbs). My cichlid that was in QT does not have ich. The glo barbs that I did not QT and put right into my sons' 30gallon brought ich with them and now the whole tank has it (which I am currently heat treating).
This article was referred to me back when I had run ins with ich. It offers a great analysis of the parasite.
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
I know, the parasite only has a three day life cycle but I went with ten because it seems to be the recommended treatment period.
BTW Manojvas, you really should think about dropping the gold fish idea for that tank. It just gets gross after a while. I've tried it, they are now in my neighbor's pond.
BTW Manojvas, you really should think about dropping the gold fish idea for that tank. It just gets gross after a while. I've tried it, they are now in my neighbor's pond.
if u are stressed ur immune system is weakened and WHEN exposed to germs u are more likely to get sick from them. same with fish. if they are stressed and if the parasite is present then they are more likely to catch it. that is all i am saying. i'm not saying it just magically appears out of nowhere. and i agree with fishdad when it comes to getting away from the goldfish idea.
Hey FishDad, it was OC who answered my last question and hence I referred him. Otherwise, I am always happy with the right advice coming from anyone. It's amazing to be amongst an ocean of seasoned fish lovers. A salute to you all!
Well, I take your advice. I would forget keeping Goldfish. I couldn't find time the last four days to do any activity on my aquarium. I still have that contaminated water which I would be changing over the weekend. I would do a massive change 90%, as the water got contaminated(I had mentioned why it got contaminated where I posted around 12 questions). There are a few things that are still unclear
1. Could you please let know which water is best for a fresh water aquarium? Water from RO process or from Water Softener or well water or water pumped from underground via submersible pump(well water and this are one and the same I believe, except we may have to fetch the well water out ourselves).
2. Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank.
3. When I get a new fish, do I always treat it for ich(just to make sure it hasn't contracted while at the pet store) by setting the tank temperature to 86? BTW is it 86 degree F? It should be
, right?.
4. Do I set that temperature without a fish or with?(Without fish may be to kill any parasite in the water and with fish may be to kill the parasite that is there with the fish) – with fish should do find
5. Does water by itself contain any parasite that like to sit on the fish?
6. My friend was suggesting the fish a dip in potassium permanganate solution for 5 seconds for killing external parasites and/or salt water swim to kill of the bacteria on the inside of its gills. Does it work? I tried with salt water thing on my gold fish. Unfortunately the itch had reached its extreme stage(after reading all discussions on this post about itch) for it to have any affect.
7. FishDad, my GF was taking extremely fast turns/twists and was swimming like crazy, short and quick turns sometimes along the wall. Could we also call this flashing as you told before?
8. Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank?
9. Do I add the dechlorinator to the water in the bucket and allow it a day or so, or do I add it in the aquarium directly after pouring it in?
Well, I take your advice. I would forget keeping Goldfish. I couldn't find time the last four days to do any activity on my aquarium. I still have that contaminated water which I would be changing over the weekend. I would do a massive change 90%, as the water got contaminated(I had mentioned why it got contaminated where I posted around 12 questions). There are a few things that are still unclear
1. Could you please let know which water is best for a fresh water aquarium? Water from RO process or from Water Softener or well water or water pumped from underground via submersible pump(well water and this are one and the same I believe, except we may have to fetch the well water out ourselves).
2. Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank.
3. When I get a new fish, do I always treat it for ich(just to make sure it hasn't contracted while at the pet store) by setting the tank temperature to 86? BTW is it 86 degree F? It should be
, right?. 4. Do I set that temperature without a fish or with?(Without fish may be to kill any parasite in the water and with fish may be to kill the parasite that is there with the fish) – with fish should do find
5. Does water by itself contain any parasite that like to sit on the fish?
6. My friend was suggesting the fish a dip in potassium permanganate solution for 5 seconds for killing external parasites and/or salt water swim to kill of the bacteria on the inside of its gills. Does it work? I tried with salt water thing on my gold fish. Unfortunately the itch had reached its extreme stage(after reading all discussions on this post about itch) for it to have any affect.
7. FishDad, my GF was taking extremely fast turns/twists and was swimming like crazy, short and quick turns sometimes along the wall. Could we also call this flashing as you told before?
8. Please let know how to de-chlorinate water before adding to aquarium and also matching its temperature with the tank?
9. Do I add the dechlorinator to the water in the bucket and allow it a day or so, or do I add it in the aquarium directly after pouring it in?
1. well water is good as it has minerals in the water that the fish and inverts can use where as RO water does not. it does not really hurt to use ro water but i personally belive well water is the better option.
2. fill a bucket with water and add the dechlorinator as directed by the bottle. if u use no heater then u can just let the bucket get to room temp or u can use a small heater to get the water to tank temp. or u can do what i do and use a garden hose connected to a faucet and pour the water directly into the tank since as stated before u are on well water and not heavily treated municiple water.
3. it is 86F and it is never a bad idea to use a small qt tank. u can pick up a 10 gallon tank and a sponge filter for around 20 bucks usually. that will work just fine for a qt tank.
4. set the temp of the qt tank at 86 and slowly acclimate the new fish to the water and then add it.
5. general water does not have any parasites in it. well water comes from to deep under ground to contain anything and ro water is sterilised and municiple water is as well chemically. the way the parasites get into the tank is by transfer from tank to tank as breeders seperate fish and as pet stores get more fish.
6. that can put a fish into shock. i've heard of good things from other people doing it but i am not a fan of the "dips". the qt tank is the better option in my opinion.
7. that would be flashing as i have seen it. did it scrape it's head or gills on the deco as well?
8. answered in #2
9. add it to the bucket and stir it in and let it sit for a few min. there is no real need to let it sit for days.
2. fill a bucket with water and add the dechlorinator as directed by the bottle. if u use no heater then u can just let the bucket get to room temp or u can use a small heater to get the water to tank temp. or u can do what i do and use a garden hose connected to a faucet and pour the water directly into the tank since as stated before u are on well water and not heavily treated municiple water.
3. it is 86F and it is never a bad idea to use a small qt tank. u can pick up a 10 gallon tank and a sponge filter for around 20 bucks usually. that will work just fine for a qt tank.
4. set the temp of the qt tank at 86 and slowly acclimate the new fish to the water and then add it.
5. general water does not have any parasites in it. well water comes from to deep under ground to contain anything and ro water is sterilised and municiple water is as well chemically. the way the parasites get into the tank is by transfer from tank to tank as breeders seperate fish and as pet stores get more fish.
6. that can put a fish into shock. i've heard of good things from other people doing it but i am not a fan of the "dips". the qt tank is the better option in my opinion.
7. that would be flashing as i have seen it. did it scrape it's head or gills on the deco as well?
8. answered in #2
9. add it to the bucket and stir it in and let it sit for a few min. there is no real need to let it sit for days.