Gouramis?

[VirgoWolf]

OK, I think I have decided that I am completely in love with gouramis, but I can't figure out what I want for my tank (assuming I don't fall for something else before I get the chance LOL).

I love the dwarfs, but I keep hearing about how timid they are. I heard that they are jittery and nervious and don't like loud sounds and such, true? Also heard that the larger gouramis will pick on them, true? My friend has kissers, golds, a couple others, and some dwarfs and she says they get along fine. We had a dwarf powder blue and he ate a tuxedo, 5 neons, and a guppy in one night (all close to the same size as him, he just ate the tails,fins, and lips ) so he went back to the store the next morning, so I have yet to see the timid side of them I guess LOL.

I am particularly interested in Golds, Opalines, and pretty much all the dwarfs. I also like the Blue Paradise, but I don't see him holding his own against the opalines or golds.

Also, I hear alot that gouramis (expecially the larger ones) don't do so well with others of their own kind, true? My friend has no problems, but I would be worried as I will be potentially stocking a 75g with mostly gouramis. (maybe a couple other things, pleco, maybe some otos, what else would be OK?)

Anyone care to try to convince me one way or the other? *GOLDFISH*

 

[Big Vine]

The one thing I will comment on is the fact that you will be stocking a larger (75 gal.) tank...AND it sounds like you plan on having a decent number of fish in there from each of the types of gourami that you plan on stocking.

This will go a long ways in preventing certain fish from getting picked on too much---there will be so many in there that any aggression will quite likely be disperesed among all the gouramies (or at least the ones within a same group type) rather than against 1, 2, or even 3 other individual fish that might find themselves getting picked on constantly if they are the only other tank inhabitants.

Hope this makes sense.

All of this is coming from personal experience---the largest tank I had was a 20 gallon, which housed various combinations of opaline and gold gouramies. Housing 2 meant that the smaller one got picked on. Housing 3 meant the same thing. One smaller one ended up dying.

Finally, housing 4 gouramies of similar size (3 opalines, 1 gold...all females), in a heavily-planted, good division of 'territories' setup worked slightly better. However, it still became apparent that too much aggression was happening and that these were going to end up being stressed, unhealthy fish (so I returned them to the LFS).

My point being---this was all in a 20 gallon tank with only 4 individuals. You'll have plenty more space, and plenty more fish involved in the pecking order...

I guess what I'm ultimately saying---in my typical, long-winded fashion---is that I think the gouramies will do great in your 75 gallon setup!

EDIT: By the way, I think this will look absolutely beautiful! Please do post pics if you get something like this up and running (I'm still in love with the gouramies...esp. opalines and gold).

Oh...and have you checked out lace gouramies or chocolate gouramies?

(Thanks for reading this...especially if you made it all the way to the end )
Big Vine

 

[MOsborne05]

Opaline gourami's are gorgeous fish. I think it would make an awesome tank so be sure to post pics

Anyways, I think you should stick with regular gouramis (Opaline/Gold) or dwarf gouramis but not both. I think a tank with just gourami's would be kind of boring though, because gouramis tend to stay at the top of the tank. I think it would look better if you added a school or two of larger tetras (so they don't get eaten) and maybe some cory cats for the bottom.

This site is pretty helpful when you are stocking a tank, it even lists some possible communty tanks http://www.elmersaquarium.com/000tropfishcareguides.htm

Have you seen long-finned rosy barbs, they are really cool looking. They are barbs though, so they tend to get nippy unless in a school, but they should be able to hold their own against the gouramis.

 

[VirgoWolf]

LOL Big V. No, thank YOU for replying, me reading was MY privledge!

I understand what you're saying, if I do end up with gouramis I will switch to a planted tank with lots of driftwood and some rock, so hopefully they would be healthy and happy and be able to establish territories so they are a little less aggressive. It seems that by your example, they would just pick off the smallest one untill there were only a few left! LOL, but I guess with 75g and plenty of hiding places, maybe it won't be so much of a problem... do you think the dwarfs would be OK too?

I love that we have the same favorites! LOL I think the contrast of opalines and golds would be spectacular! And if I could add some dwarfs too, it would be even better! I have checked out many other types, I just found one that I haden't seen before, the moonlight gourami, LOVE them despite the lack of color. I have seen pearls (lace) that I like and some I haven't. With the Choclates, there pretty, but I don't like the contrast enough to add them with opalines and golds.

Also, what other fish would do well with the gouramis? Here is a list of some of the potential tankmates if I had to pick:

Bala Sharks (2)
Killifish (not sure which kind or how many, but there SO beautiful!)
Columbian Shark Cat (1)
Albino Rainbow Shark (1)
Pictus Cat (1-2)
Pleco(s) (Trinidad, Clown, Tiger, Net, Golden Stripes Peckoltia, Albino Sailfin, and I'd LOVE a True Zebra, but I can't afford it! LOL)
Otocinclus Cat (6 or so)
Gold Algae Eater (few?)

And I am open to suggestions, I just pulled these off my favorites list from liveaquaria.com, so I know there is quite a few more I would like. I like some of the Tetras, but if I take the current fish out, I will have a tetra tank and I would preferr to keep the tetras together.

 

[VirgoWolf]

MO, do you think the dwarf gouramis would be picked on? Is there anything on my list that would be compatable and a good compliment to the gouramis?

The tetras I tend to only like the smaller ones for some reason LOL, but as I mentioned, I want to keep the tetras together if I split up this tank. As for corys... blech, I have yet to see one that made me think I would ever want one, no offence, I know many people LOVE them, just not me.

I haven't seen the long fin barbs. I think if I were going to get barbs it would be albino tiger barbs, my mom had some and I think there georgious! Rosies are georgious too though.

Thanks for the link, I iwll be buisy for the rest of the day now! LOL

 

[MOsborne05]

I just saw some moonlights too, and I think their lack of color would contrast nicely with the other gouramis, as well as plants. Even dull colored fish look great against a bright green backdrop (plants). Make sure its heavily planted because gouramis like shade.

Is there a difference between opaline and blue gouramis? On some sites they are labeled the same, but others are labeled different. I love the blue gouramis with the black dot, I think they are sometimes called three-spots.

 

[VirgoWolf]

Yes, they are different, to an extent, this is a blue gourami (same as the golds pretty much, just blue) http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=973 they are also the same as the 3 spots you mentioned. The Opalines are a different color variation of the blue gourami, and (at least IMO) a bit more interesting looking http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=958 .

Are giant Dianos more likely to stay towards the bottom? I want to keep it balanced (thanks for bringing that up, I didn't even think about that).

 

[MOsborne05]

Danios are alot like guppies and go everywhere, they don't necessarily stay in one level I don't think. IMO, I think danios would drive gourami's nuts though because they are so zippy. I think you would be better off going with some bigger tetras or barbs. And then cory cats, oto's, a pleco, kuhli loaches, or shrimp for the bottom. I'm not sure if the gourami's would eat shrimp, they might when they get bigger?

I always like my tanks to have a diversity of colors. So if you are going to get neutral colored gouramis (opaline, gold, moonlight) then I would suggest brightly colored mid-level fish. And cory cats and/or kuhli loaches for the bottom.

 

[VirgoWolf]

You know. come to think of it, my mom's dianos (zebras) actually spend 90% of their time at the top of the tank, so maybe dianos isn't the best choice for evening things up anyway.

The rosie barbs are georgious, but I just read that they can get up to 6", that's bigger than I thought, do they REALLY get that big? Would a small school of rosies and/or albino tiger barbs be OK with the gouramis? I would really like to add the dwarf gouramis if possible, but I don't want them to be under attack or stressed all the time. If I had to choose between the dwarfs and the big guys, at least for this tank I would say big guys. As of now my tank is awesome if you're looking RIGHT at it, but stand 6' back and you would SWEAR it was totally empty, that's what I am aiming to change, so I don't think the dwarfs alone would be worth all the trouble. They would however, look AWESOME with the big guys!

As for Tetras, I would really like to keep them in with the neons and keep that tank specifacally tetras, but if I had to go with tetras with the gouramis, the only ones I seem to like are so small, the biggest of which are the Red Tail Mirror Blue, but I don't see them making much of a difference in this tank.

No corries. As for loaches, would the Lohachata Botia, Dario Botia, Gold Dojo, or Tiger Botia be OK Choices? Plecos, would any of the ones I listed be recomended?

Are Cherry Fire Shrimp much like the ghost shrimp? Will they have to be replaced as much? I mean, if they get eaten, they get eaten, but on natural surcumstances, will they last? Or should I just go with the Singapore Flower Shrimp and worry less about them getting eaten?

Would adding a Blue Lobster be a bad Idea? (Thanks Big V., that Av is just mean! LOL)

 

[CAPSLOCK]

The bigger gouramis (meaning not dwarfs) are generally considered semi-aggressive, so they get along with most other fish that are also semi-aggressive. Tiger barbs should get along fine, especially since you've got a big enough tank to do a decent school of the barbs. I'd think any of those loaches would do fine, make sure to get groups of at least 3 if you get the lohachatas. I think any of those plecos should be fine, make sure to check out whichever one you get so you know what to feed it. I've noticed that danios stick near the top as well, they probably wouldn't be the best of tankmates.

I'm not sure how well dwarfs would do with large gouramis. I'd think if you were planning to add both, you'd want to add the dwarfs first so they can get established before you throw in larger, more aggressive gouramis. I've noticed that the dwarfs are less likely to stay near the top of the tank, they seem to be more mid to lower level dwellers. A paradise fish should be able to hold his own with any of the above, I've found them to be much more aggressive than other gouramis... but it was aggression towards each other and towards small fish (tetras), not towards other species of gourami. Paradise fish also jump very, very well and will find tiny little holes to escape through... or jump out when you open the hood to feed or water change. You can probably also get less aggression amongst the gouramis by getting all females of the non-dwarf ones, since both sexes look about the same color wise. Male dwarfs shouldn't go after any type of regular size gouramis, so it wouldn't really matter if you got male or female dwarfs, and the males are the colorful ones.

And BTW, opaline is a specifically bred color of blue gouramis, which are the same as three-spot gourami. Gold gouramis are a different color of three-spot as well. I wouldn't advise chocolates with any of these, since chocolates (from everything I've read) are much more timid and need very good water conditions.

 

[Big Vine]

Would adding a Blue Lobster be a bad Idea? (Thanks Big V., that Av is just mean! LOL)

Haha!
A blue crayfish would do just fine in the type of setup you're talking about. I can't speak on behalf of the other types of shrimp, but neither of my crays (I have a brown one too which I just recently mated with the blue male) have bothered the 2 Singapore shrimp at all.

The only issue would be with keeping live plants---especially stemmed ones (unless they're potted plants), as the cray would likely pull them loose. Finer-leaved plants such as grasses might be okay, and hornwort (free-floating) won't get destroyed, although my hornwort does end up in various places throughout the tank because both the shrimp and the cray love to "jump" on it and play in it.

Check out the "other aquatic creatures" section of the forum if you want more info. on these guys, or send me a PM. I've learned a lot about crays lately, so I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Big Vine

 

[VirgoWolf]

Wow, Thanks caps! (The irony that I just typed that in lower case... LOL)

OK, I have to check with my husband and work things out a bit more, but I am thinking of having the 2-3 variations of the gourami (golds, opalines, and maybe blues) and some dwarfs (not sure which kinds, I will try them if I see a problem, oh darn, I will just HAVE to make another tank! LOL) with a school of albino tiger barbs and maybe a small school of rosies too (do they REALLY get 6" in an aquarium setting?).

So now all I have to worry about is the bottom guys... I like the idea of the blue cray, but the plant thing COMPLETELY slipped my mind. I had a cray before that snipped my FAKE plants, so that's out for this tank. I like the loaches listed, but I forgot my FAVORITE... the yoyo loaches! Would they be OK? Would they eat the cherry shrimp? What about the bigger shrimp? They can't eat them obviously, but will they be OK around eachother?

Plecos... someone suggest something here! LOL For the types of fish and the enviroment I am creating here, what would be the best fit? It has to be attractive too, as my husband has a hatred for the average pleco looks (I love most plecos, besides bristle nose and madusas LOL), so if there is something on my list that fits well, please let me know. I would give just about anything to have a true zebra, but holy crap they cost an arm and a leg! LOL As it is this is going to take me FOREVER to complete because of funds and the lack of any good LFS around here, along with quarentine which I am very cautious about since I have lost some fish I was pretty attached to (a few, one of which was my first butterfly Koi, Dorkfish, that my hubby got me for our anniversary RIP Dorkfish!) due to improper quarentine or no quarentine. So this will be a long time in the making.

Also, if you know ANYTHING about plants WHATSOEVER, please go check out my post in the plant forum, I am in desprate need of some plant knowledge! LOL

Thanks everyone for all your help!

P.S.

Caps, if you read my post above, I mentioned the relationship of the blue,gold, and opaline gouramis.

Big V, Sorry, no blue cray for now Although I want a paradise now, so would they maybe do OK in a 10g together? OH! and I can NOT find any pics of that tank I told you about, I think it's on a CD somewhere, I'll tell you if it ever shows up.

 

[MOsborne05]

I don't think that rosy barbs get 6" in body, but maybe because of the 'long fins'. Elmer's aquarium has them listed at 2.5", so I think it is just the fins that may get 6" long. I've never seen one that big though, so I don't know if they get that big. Personally I think they would look awesome in a big school, say 10 or more I'm so tempted now

BTW, what about the moonlight gouramis? And have you seen the sparkling gourami's on live aquaria, they are also called croaking gourami's. They are pretty small but very cute.

 

[Big Vine]

Big V, Sorry, no blue cray for now Although I want a paradise now, so would they maybe do OK in a 10g together? OH! and I can NOT find any pics of that tank I told you about, I think it's on a CD somewhere, I'll tell you if it ever shows up.

Hehe...well you're better off if you want a nice planted tank anyway! I'm not sure about paradise fish, as I've never kept them before.

And are you referring to the older tank you said you had crabs in before? If so, then that would be great...I'd love to see em'!

Sounds like you're really putting together a nice plan for a setup with the gouramis! *thumbsups

Big Vine

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I thought botia lohachata was a yoyo loach... ah, yes it is according to liveaquaria.com. I have exactly zip for experience with shrimp, so I don't know there. Yoyos do like to be in groups though.

I don't see why a paradise fish and a crayfish wouldn't work in a 10g, I had a paradise in a 10g with danios, kuhlis, and a platy until he jumped.

Yeah, I read where you noted that the blues and opalines were color morphs, I just didn't know if you knew the golds were too.

I wouldn't think sparkling gouramis would be good with larger ones either, they are supposed to be even more skittish than chocolates and like peaceful tankmates (as in not tiger barbs...).

 

[VirgoWolf]

MO: Well they are listed as adult size: 6" on liveaquaria, but then in the text it says "In the wild they get up to 6" " But there is no refrence saying they don't get that large in aquariums. I think you're right though, seems the fins would add some length and some of there other measurements are the same way. I think they would look kool big or smaller, I just hoped they were a little smaller so I had more stock room for the gouramis, if you've read what I have stocked now, you know I prefer low stock levels LOL. But I hope there not too small so they stand a chance with the gouramis LOL.

The moonlight gouramis are still and option, just need to figure out how many of each so I can see if I have enough room, I don't want to overstock, but I want small schools if possible, rather than pairs.

I have seen the sparkling gouramis, they are pretty much like Bettas though (just not mean), I don't want to put them in with these guys, I am however, considering them for the pond in the vivarium we are planning, it's the perfect shallow, still water (somewhat, there is a small waterfall in the plans).


Big V: Yeah, I love planted tanks, but I am no good with garden plants so I worry LOL, I need the weeds that will grow in any condition and not need much maintenance LOL. At least to start with.

With the paradise fish, they are aggressive little showie gouramis just like bettas, little bigger. I was considering it, but I just read that they need a min of 30g. But my guppies might get the 30g (or possibly the tetras and maybe dart frogs LOL) so I can't really put him in there, but I'll find a place for one somewhere at some point LOL.


Yeah, The crab tank with my rocky/shell/airline tubing creation LOL, There are CD's everywhere right now, we have too much stuff and not enough room LOL, If I come across them though, I will definitly post.

Thanks for the compliments, I just want something I can stair at, to stair at my tank I haave to pull up a chair! LOL (literally! I have to sit and watch all the time to monitor eating and check all my females and do the testing and, well you get the idea LOL. I guess I will still be doing that, but at least when I get distracted on commercials and stair at the tank from the couch, I'll be able to see the fish! LOL These ones dissapear at 6' from the tank! LOL


Caps Oops, forgive me, I am COMPLETELY new to loaches and I was looking at 2 different pages seperately and listed them from each, I didn't realize they were the same, LOL.


OK, so I don't completely trust anything on liveaquaria, you think a paradise would be OK in a 10g? I woulden't see why not, unless there super active, but if he's the only fish? I still like to give them a little more room than they need though, so I am torn.

Yeah one thing liveaquaria is good for is pics and names LOL, they mention that they are all color variations of the blue, and I breed ball pythons (there are hundreds of morphs) so I can relate. The gold and blue and pretty easy to tell anyway, there so close, but I love the marble pattern on the opalines!


Yeah, that's exactly why I thought they would do well in the viv pond, just them and some plants and driftwood with the little waterfall from the canitser filter. Kinda hard to explain without the sketches LOL.

So, does anyone have suggestions on how many of each would do well? I still need to figure out what size groups are best for each diferent school. Then I can use that to pick which ones I really want untill it's stocked to my likings. I am going to go check out the dwarfs and limit it down to a couple "must have"s.

 

[VirgoWolf]

OK I am torn here, the dwarf gouramis are all so awesome. I HAVE TO HAVE the powder blues, we had the one before and despte him killing half our stock in one night, he was amazing and they're my husbands favorite. I don't know if I should throw in a Fire Red flair or go with the gold/turquoise of the giant gourami (there dwarf sized according to live aquaria, not sure about the name, but they do stay small right?).

Also I know I can breed brine shrimp, can I easily breed other food? I know I was thinking of getting a couple of snales and letting them breed in the tank for the loaches, would breeding them in a seperate tank be better? Any other foods that are no brainers?

 

[dogdoc]

How about some rainbows to mix with your gouramis? I have two pearl gouramis in my 75 along with a whole slew of rainbow fish. You can find almost any colors that you would like.

 

[VirgoWolf]

The rainbows are georgious, I thought about them, I read somewhere that they don't mix with some gouramis, but I forget which ones. I think I love too many of the gouramis to have the room for them though LOL. And when I asked my husband if he liked any of them he said "they're OK" LOL so I want to make sure we both love them all. I already have my livebarer obsession LOL, he likes tetras better, but I love tetras too LOL.

 

[VirgoWolf]

OK, so so far, this is what I have come up with, anyone care to crunch numbers for me? I am no good at stocking levels as I usually tend to keep them WAY under and I don't want to go so slim this time.

Big Guys:
Opaline Gourami
Gold Gourami
Moonlight Gourami

Little Guys:
Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami
Fire Red Dwarf Gourami OR Giant Gourami

The Outcasts:
Albino Tiger Barb
Long Fin Rosie Barb
Yoyo Loach

In Question:
Albino Rainbow Shark (Would he be OK?)
6-8"? Pleco, still deciding on which one
snails, still looking for the best type
Shrimp? (Cherry or Flower, do they stand a chance?)