Greetings from a new member - need shell-dweller advice

[Exister]

Hello.

This is my first post here, so I thought I'd drop a quick greeting. I am a cichlid enthusiast who's been out of the hobby for about 13 years and I'm thinking about finally getting back into it!

My previous tanks were all 55 gallon and larger (mostly Malawi), and I'm looking to start off a bit smaller this time around. I'm especially interested in starting up a small tank (20 gallons or so) of smaller "shell-dwelling" Tanganyika cichlids. I found this article while poking around the web (http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/shell_species.htm), and I was wondering if anyone here can offer any other advice to help me get started.

Thanks!

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Well i'm not the big shelldweller guy here, you'll want to speak to Orion about that. But just wanted to say welcome and a 20gal sounds great for a small colony!

Only real useful peice of info i can throw out is http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/shelldweller_corner.php

 

[Exister]

Thanks for the link - looks like some excellent information. I'm really looking forward to building a new tank after all these years - back when I was active in the hobby, I managed the fish department of an excellent pet store.

But back then there was no internet! So it'll be nice to share my new tank with a built-in community.

 

[Orion]

Hi! And welcome to the tank.

Shell dwellers eh? Lovley little cichlids. Besides the julies, probably some of the most interesting in behaviour IMHO.

There are several different species out there, and many need different set ups than the next. All shellies yes, but not all the same habitat nor behaviour.

Neolamprologus multifaciatus for instance is a colony shell dweller, and in the wild comes from an area with a very large shell density. This fish forms a 'harem' breeding colonly, with one male to several females.

Neolamprologus brevis on the other hand comes from an area of low shell density. The males and females will often share a shell. This species formes pairs, and does not take care of its brood as long as the multies do.

Much information out there. Any particular species your looking at, or a certian way you are wanting to set a tank up? A 20 gallon would be great for most of the shellies. A 20L would be better than a 20H due to the increaced foot print.

 

[Exister]

Here's my equipment/fish list so far (I'll modify this post as I go along, with suggestions from others, or if I change my mind about the details):

Equipment:
20 gallon long tank, with black background
Black sand substrate
Aqua Clear power filter or a Bio-wheel power filter
submersible heater/thermometer
lots of shells (at least 2 per shell-dweller)/rocks

Fish:
Lamprologus occelatus ("gold") - 6

OR

Neolamprologus multifasciatus - 6

I'm wondering if I should stick with just one tang species and maybe replace the multis with a trio of "dwarf" peacocks. I'm also wondering about the numbers of each fish I've listed: too many? too few?

I'm also wondering if I should go with a canister filter rather than the power filter...

EDIT: I just saw your post Orion after I posted mine. I laid out my tentative plan above - let me know what you think. And thanks for the kind welcome!

 

[TaffyFish]

Firstly, here's another site that's dedicated to those fish, www.shelldwellers.com

I would recommend that you go with either the ocellatus or the multies but not try both in that size of tank. I have tried it myself and it didn't work, eventually one species will overrun the other. The bioload won't be heavy, even once you've a decent colony or breeding group established, so I don't think an external canister is necessary. I also don't think the pleco is necessary either though I keep young bristlenoses with my multies and remove them before they grow too large. A 4" south american poop machine doesn't do it for me in a shellie set up! You could add danios for some upper water movement if you feel the tank needs it. Tangs seem to respond well to understocking though.

Another option would be to set up 50/50 rockwork and open sand, then keep occies with julidochromis transcriptus or ornatus. Avoid the "gombe" and larger sized julies though.

 

[phOOey]

beat me to recommending that site taffy . i once had colony of multies in a 30g and they were great, i had it all set up and was going to do a 50/50 set up like taffy suggested with ornatus, but a week before i was going to add the ornatus all my multies and fry died becuase of some really, really crappy fin rot med. well this med was either out of date (?) or just really sucked. either way, it killed my 3 adult multies and there 30 or so fry, i was devastated

i personally prefer multies because they are colonial fish which means you can keep many generations of fry in one tank and watch them grow up together

 

[Exister]

Thanks again for the excellent info! I definitely need to do some more research...

So far I'm torn between the multies and occies. But I'll definitely leave out the pleco - I had forgotten how much waste they produce.

 

[Orion]

Both are great shellies, but I have only had experince with the multies (so far).

There are some pretty dramatic differences between the two species. Mainly in the behaviours, and breeding practices. They also look quite different from one another as well.

You have narowwed it down to just two species. Thats pretty good! It took me a while before I finaly figured out what to get. Research both and decide what you want to get. Carefully look at each of them, and see what would suit your needs or taste best.

 

[Exister]

Would it be advisable to add a trio of peacocks (smaller ones) to the mix, or am I asking for trouble. And if so, what are some of the smaller species of peacocks?

I was planning on having some rock build-up in one corner of the tank (or maybe along the entire back wall of the tank). I figure this would allow for the peacocks. Or should I scrap the peacocks and stick with a few julies like Taffy suggests? So many choices!

 

[Orion]

I really can't comment on the peacocks. Never had them, and honestly I've not read a whole lot on them.

If you going to do rockwork, keep it on one side of the tank. This way it help entice the rockdwellers to stay on there side of the tank, and as far away from the shellies as possible. If you had it along the entire length of the tank, then you very well could see more squables between the two species.

I think you would enjoy the julies if you choose them. I have J. dickfeldi and they are little clowns. They have very interesting swimming movements, and have even been known to swim upside down (I've seen a few of mine do this).

 

[Exister]

UPDATE:

I'm now futher in the planning stages of my new tank.

So far I have:

The tank: 55 gallon/cabinet stand/striplight
Canister filter: Odyssea CFS-4 - formerly Jebo 828
Substrate: 3M Colorquartz S-Grade Black (50 lbs)
Shells: 50 gold turbo, 50 whale eye
Rocks: A bunch of (free) Texas holey rock from my brother's in-laws' farm outside of Autin, TX
Heater: Hydor 300W external inline heater

I also plan on purchasing a small powerhead (to improve waterflow) and all the maintenance equipment like a water test kit, conditioners, and Python water changer, etc.

I'm in the planning stages of a DIY 3-D rock background using the styrofoam/cement method that will hide the powerhead and the canister filter's uptake/ouput hoses.

Plus, I've decided on the fish:

Neolamprologous multifasciatus
Julidichromis transcriptus "Bemba"/"Zaire" (the non-"gombi" variety)
Synodontis petricola

I'll post pics as I actually get the thing going!

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Sounds great! Glad you went all tang and didn't throw the peacocks in there, no doubt they are cool fish but not sure if they'd fit your setup real well.

Question for all you shell guys, where do you get the shells in the USA? I know real Tang shells can empty your pocket, but what kind of shells do ya'll use and where do you get them?

 

[Orion]

Sounds like you got a good setup going! And yes, when you get some pics, please share!

C-man, I can't remember the place I ordered some off of, I'll go through my emails and find it. I ended up getting 75 shells for around $18. Not too bad IMO. Good shells too. Escargo from the grocery store is used alot, but no one around here sells them.

 

[Exister]

Question for all you shell guys, where do you get the shells in the USA? I know real Tang shells can empty your pocket, but what kind of shells do ya'll use and where do you get them?

I got mine from here: http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10

 

[Orion]

lol, thanks Exister. Thats the place where I got mine at as well.

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Cool thanks guys. I'm doing something with my extra 29gal

 

[Orion]

'bout time.

 

[Miles44]

As for Exsiter's tank idea. It sounds good but keep in mind that if you want fry from those multies you will need to get rid of the petricola cats. They won't hesitate to eat them all. I'm sad to say, that's from experience. And btw before you decided to go with the 55 I would have said occelatus. I love those little guys. They can really hold thier own.
So good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

As for shells I use escargot. All my shellies seem to love them. Even my female boulengeri fits in them. Well most of her anyways. LOL.

 

[Exister]

Miles,

Yeah, I don't mind the fry being eaten by the cats. I won't really have room or extra tanks to grow them out. And I did consider the ocellatus (they were my second choice), but I'd like to try my hand at the multies first. Maybe when we move into a bigger house I'll add an occie tank!