Help: Everyone is after Drita! (Convict Cichlids)

[DavidBeoulve]

We have four Convict Cichlids in a 38 gallon long, all Convicts are about 1" long.

Antony has started to pair with Rosa, and Bernard is the lead fish. Drita seemed to resist Bernard's advances, which started only after we saw Antony and Rosa courting (flaring their fins and shimmying at each other).

But Drita has always been low girl on the totem pole, even though, ironically, she's the champion roacher.

Tonight, all three of the others decided it was time to CONSTANTLY chase Drita all over the tank, really rough it seemed. I (blush) haven't got a net so I took the last slate rock and broke it up into more pieces and slivers and added more cover. In the confusion, Drita immediately hid.

I turned off the light, but remain worried. Thoughts everyone?

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Well this morning everyone calmed down a bit, they had fun eating two more roaches, one of which I caught in a digital movie.

The others are not chasing Drita constantly, but she is the odd-fish-out. I warned my wife that we may have a floater one day, which is too bad as we both like Drita.

Drita spends most of her time at the upper third of the aquarium on one side, which is away from all of the cave and rock structures the others claim.

Can anyone give us some advice?

 

[SoulFish]

move everyone out but the pair, the unpaired ones wil have a misserable life

 

[Avalon]

Hey Dave, how about some fake plants? The larger, leafy (bushy) types would be good. When your convicts begin to claim territory and begin to spawn, someone will probably get beat to a pulp. The more seclusion you can provide, the better--out of sight, out of mind.

 

[commissar]

ok u need to move the fish that havnt paired up as the tank u have is only big enough for one pair
if they ever spawned they will kill the others to protect the eggs and fry
r u aware they grow up to 6" and r one of the most aggressive cichlids u can get
also dont feed live fish as there r plenty of pellet foods to feed
the feeding of live fish is not only outdated but also cruel when there r alternatives that give far more protien and vitamins for ur fish

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Munch

1) I don't feed live fish. Just live cockroaches.

2) I'm told that Convict Cichlids don't reach 6", though I have read they reach 6", some sources say 4".

3) As for fake plants, that is next on our list. We have a few mouths to feed so we'll handle that two weeks from now.

4) As for egg bearing and fry rearing, yeah, I think you are right... but does anyone have any Convicts that have done this? Can you help out here? I'd like some imperical knowledge.

5) Do you all recommend us purchasing a tank splitter, something that will seperate the tank into two halves? We flat don't have another aquarium.

6) The guys at Aquatropics tried to sell me SIX 1" Convict Cichlids, not four. Is that insane or were they being reasonable? They knew what size tank I had.

Thanks in advance.

 

[commissar]

sorry a misunderstanding where i live a roach is a fish
convicts will pick on the weakest fish in the tank untill u r left with a pair unless ur tank is big enough for them to set up diff terratories but ur tank isnt that big
so keep an eye on thenm

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Hah hah hah a picture is worth a thousand words? "Hey, that's not a roach, that's a BUG!"

What about the other Q's?

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Now I'm really pissed off. I called the aquarium store and they said "Well you should probably bring in the other two that don't get along and we'll give you store credit."

Have they seen our website? With a page dedicated to each fish?

I said "The guy said I could get 6" and she said "Well he probably didn't know what size it was." I pointed out that I not only told him what size it was, but had BROUGHT BACK the first 38 gallon because it had a chip in it the day before.

"Well he probably had a good reason to say that." I answered "Yeah, hah hah, to sell more fish." She said "Well that was probably NOT it, because we don't get a commission. Just bring back the two that aren't getting along with the others and we'll give you store credit for them."

What the hell? That's her first and last answer? Why was I sold four fish? Why did they attempt to offer 6?

 

[SoulFish]

they just want to make money. or he may just be ignorant, but she is right in saying you should return 2, convicts should have 20gallons per pair in seperate tanks or 40 gallons per pair in the same tank

 

[DavidBeoulve]

We have a 38 gallon... by that measure, we're only 2 gallons off.

An interesting read I read (source):
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Black Convict Cichlids. The fish with attitude and intelligence. I saw my two convicts for the first time... the two were casually picking up the small aquarium stones and placing them in a small pile. The purpose was to get a small morsel of food they knew would be buried there. This inspired me to bring these zebra marked fish home for my tank.

Well this maneuver was not appreciated by any of the other fish. Within an hour, the two little convincts (no more than 2") had staked claim to an object in the tank. Soon this grew to include anything within a two foot radius. They would attack quickly and ferociously on fish 3 times their size. There were no injuries, it was all based on bluff and defeat.

In time, the other fish learned to accept the new rivals, by avoidance, allowing them to claim whatever they wanted. After all, they couldn't possibly guard the whole 55 gallon tank at once now could they? It was not long after, I realized the second strike against the breed. One day while I was feeding, I noticed a mysterious cloud around the two convicts. Packed into the other end of the aquarium, was all the other fish.

Closer examination revealed the cloud to be a mass of newborn convicts (possibly 300). The other fish were terrified to come near. Then you see mother nature at its best. Mom and Dad would watch and guard the young. A small bunch stray from the pack. Dad rushed over, sucked them into his mouth and deposited them back in the pack. Once again, all the other fish accepted this invasion and would not dare touch the little ones. A week or so later I removed the babies, by means of a vacuum tube, taking many hits by the very angry parents.

I placed the fry in 10 gallon tank to raise them in a more relaxed atmosphere. Sure I lost quite a few at first, but a lot still survive (now about 1" long). Now, get this! Thirteen days later, another cloud appears in the tank! Even more then the first time. Well, to make a long story short, my convicts are working on their 5th brood now. Yes they have migrated from hostile siezure of the aquaworld to taking over my home by sheer numbers. The parents are now almost 4" long. But you know what? Despite all this... I love these little guys. They have so much character and amazing survival instincts (even the little ones). In a tank all to themselves, one word...Perfect!

Jim Green Huntsville Ontario Canada
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My wife is not only Latin but a former traditional nun (they take vows for 1 to 3 years at a time, bout with cancer knocked her out of her vocation, bumped her into me). She's suggested that we care for the aquarium and fish as best we can, and let nature run its course from there.

I used to have two tanks when I was a teenager: a 10 gallon guppy tank with plants and snails to keep it running and a 55 gallon Koi tank.

Now the Koi ate plants so they had a few quartz rocks and a plecostomus that would hide behind a few rocks during the day. They were hardy fish and peaceful... I fell asleep watching them go back and forth many times.

The guppies bred like rabbits and died off, made more, and so on constantly. If there were simply too many I'd skim them off and give them to a snapping turtle I had for a time. The snail population (I was only 11 when I started this tank) came from me actually getting driftwood and snails from a local creek. Naturally, almost all the fish died from local diseases, but after the tank settled down, I had these great snails that kept the algae down. When there were too many snails and not enough food, 2/3rds of the population would die off, and then the algae would come back, and the snail population would rise, and so on.

All this in one 10 gallon.

This tank was almost a diachotomy to the Koi tank, which was immense and spartan and very clean... artificial, really.

Reading about planted aquariums, I'm reminded of the difference of a nature-based aquarium and an artificial one.

Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks for all of the above.

 

[SheepdogLover]

commissar--i don't think feeding live food (like ghost shrimp, etc) to your fish is cruel! it's a part of life...if your fish were in the wild, they'd probably eat other live fish if they needed too! do you eat meat? someone killed that cow or lamb or horse before you ate it. it was a living, breathing thing, but yet, it's a "part of life". sure, there may be other things with more protein, but feeding live food to fish is a good part of their diet! it's not cruel.

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Back on the topic of our four Cichlids...
*crazysmil

 

[SheepdogLover]

sorry! i just had to say that...i know it was completely off-subject. (oops)

 

[beaker]

In regards to raising Convict Fry....

The parents really take care of just about everything. The only thing you need to do is feed the parent as you normally would (or a little more), and seperate them from the rest of the Cons that they may terrorize.

I've seen parents take the flakes, and spit them out near the fry. I vary the feedings from flake to freezedried bloodworms, and I've also seen the fry nibble on algae growing on the back of the tank (I had otos, but they're in my other tank to avoid the abuse from the parents)


I would look at possibly getting a divider for the tank to keep one pair on each side. I have had females breed and then turn on the male however, so your milage may vary. But I do have one pair who are always together, and have 2-3 week old fry right now... (I've had I think 4 sets of eggs so far... 3 sets got donated to my best pair of parents, and the 4th are still with the mother.... after this, the rest of my fish get caviar from now on... I'll have plenty of fry... and for those who think that's cruel, guess what! I don't care, that's nature... (as well as feeding feeders etc....)

 

[DavidBeoulve]

I would look at possibly getting a divider for the tank to keep one pair on each side. I have had females breed and then turn on the male however, so your milage may vary.

Roger that... my wife brought up a divider, too.

We're worried because (well, look at the link on my signature) we love our fish. My daughters come out and just watch them, especially my 3 year old who does an impression of the RCA Dog listening to an old LP. My wife can spot name and recognize any of the fish (heck, she named them) and so we really approached this like it was my old Koi tank from when I was a teenager... an artificial tank with a sterile environment where, properly maintained, nobody died, and you got to know each fish intimately.

However, these little Cichlids are fishes of nature.

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Sorry to Sheepy, hah hah, I was trying to be funny while keeping us off a religious debate. I plead the 5th Amendment myself.

 

[Avalon]

I don't think you're on the wrong path Dave. You have sound logic, and that will take you a long way in fish keeping. Many times I see people try to do too much and waste their efforst doing so. Humans' structured rules do not apply to fish, and that's what makes them so interesting (to me anyway). Nature has a way of taking its course; we are the students, not the teachers in this aspect. Every so often, we may need to intervene when our little fishies are on a destructive path--like adding that divider. Maybe you've heard of Occam's razor? If it is not necessary to introduce certain complexities or hypotheticals into a situation, then don't do it! Beats buying a new tank or completely rearranging the one you have 'eh?

Young fish generally get along with others fairly well; it's when they get old(er) and cranky that problems arise. Your fish still have a way to go before serious problems pop up, but Convicts tend to start earlier than most cichlids, probably due to the young age at which they begin breeding.

Convicts do reach 6", I've seen several. These are generally older fish, 2+ years old, and have been fed well. I would estimate rapid growth during the first 6 months or so, then a leveling off after that. Beef heart is one of the best foods to enhance growth, along with "loaded" fish. "Loaded" fish is a fish that has been fed very nutritious foods, usually very high in vitamins, that are fed to larger fish. The nutrients from these fish are passed along to the larger fish. You can also medicate picky fish this way (i.e., fish that won't eat flake food, etc.).

Hmmm...I think I was going to add something else, but I forgot...must not have been very important!

Regards,
David

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Occam's Razor: one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

You see, my wife is about 20 to 30 years wiser than me. Being a Contemplative Traditional Franciscan Order Nun for a few years will do that to a person. She was a nun for 12 years before running into cancer and then me ... I was 20 and infectious, she was 29 and wise. So she has a way of BEING an Occam's Razor, having studied anthropology. She said to me "David, you are worrying too much; all we can do is care for the tank and the fish as best we can, the rest we leave to nature." As you said so aptly "Nature has a way of taking its course; we are the students, not the teachers in this aspect."

You're both absolutely right, Avy... we are essentially doing our best to maintain a piece of nature in a glass tank.

I've been reading a lot about plant tanks, and remembering that 10 gallon guppy tank. After a few years, I had that thing so darn tuned all I needed to do was replace the water. I think I used a syphon hose on the gravel once in a blue moon. Plants, fish, snails.

So with the Convicts, we love them because they are such wonderful personalities. It's like keeping bobcats. They're not like my fancy-tailed guppies... they DO things. They watch us, they watch each other, they are alert, inquisitive, territorial, and different. But like you and my wife have pointed out, I have to remember we are keeping wild things, not domesticated Koi.

Back to Occam's Razor... we'll do only what we need to, and nothing complicated or fancy. Nature is not a thing that can be tamed, just partially bred out (behaviorally, I guess). It is easy for Alejandra to let nature run its course, because she understands, the human condition is really the same thing.

Guys like me, we try to plan it

 

[commissar]

ok sheep first off a shrimp is not a fish ok and i did say feed livefood such as bloodworm and frozen shrimp
and yes some fish do eat fish in the wild but most fish dont they will only eat dead fish or really young fry
i dont like people giving live fish to feed for one reason and that is u get stupit teenagers going out and buying big fish they know nothing about just so they can watch them feed on live fish then get all there mates round to show them its cruel and should be banned (its illegal in the uk to feed snakes live rodents ) so the same should go for fish
of coause the fish stores are going to say u need to feed live fish y because they want to sell u them
if u went to the store and asked for a rabbit for your dog im sure they would tell u to go away and not be so cruel
sorry but i felt i had to reply
ok as for your convicts the shop was wrong to sell u that many knowing the size tank u had
once u get them to spawn they will spawn very regular so i hope u have another tank for the fry
in the uk u cant even give convicts away as no one wants them becouse of the way they behave
yes they r intresting little fish but to aggressive for most people
i used to have one 2" that lived with a 10" oscar and it took the food off the oscar every feeding time

 

[beaker]

Off Topic ... but...

Could you reply in English? My head hurts.... I don't understand the whole y u r stuff...

Edit: On second thought: If I wanted to get a fish just because he was big enough to eat feeder fish and for no other reason... I would. But on your reasoning, those fishes shouldn't be allowed because they aren't allowed because they eat life fish.

Guess what? I'm going to have an over abundance of Convict Fry. And some will just happen to become snacks for other fish. Ce la vie.