i lost 75 fish today and i don't know why.

[prettypleco]

hello. i am new to your forum and have a question, 7 days ago i noted one cory in 100 gal. tank had ich or fungus. a large molly in 55 gal tank also had the same. both tanks were treated with aquari-sol and temp raise to 80ish. things seemed to be improving until today. i came home to find my little friends dead or dying, i am totally upset over this and am quite stymied by what happened. any thoughts?

 

[FroggyFox]

It would help us out a lot if you could give us some more specifics about your tank...how long as it been set up, what stock is in there. Have you tested (and can you tell us) the levels of ammonia/nitrite and nitrate in the tank?

With so many dying at once the chances that its some kind of poison that got into the water, or something changed drastically.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure its not a good idea to mix medications with high temperatures. to treat ick the suggestion is either heat and salt...or a medication...although 80 doesn't seem extremely high.

Best thing you can do is large water changes. Dead bodies in the tank along with whatever the cause of the deaths (disease, medication, something else) can make things go bad very quickly. Do you have another tank you could set up? Move the alive fish into?

 

[Fish Friend]

Can i just ask, is it relevant to have 75 fish in a 100G ? is that not over stocked froggy or is it ok ?

 

[phOOey]

depends on the size of fish, 75 neons would be really understocked, but 75 oscars would be a insanely over stocked

 

[FroggyFox]

Thats why I asked about what is in the tank...prettypleco mentioned a 100G and a 55G...so we might be talking about two different tanks with deaths in both...I'm not sure and thats why we need some more clarification.

And what Phooey said is right on with stocking Just depends on the fish. IF it IS overstocked...then it could lead to a disaster more quickly than if it were understocked.

 

[prettypleco]

most of the fish were neons, headlights and fry [guppy, platy]. no the tank was not overstocked and very well cared for. no chance of poison either. the only new thing was the aqua-sol which was necessary for the ich. i also lost 7 large fish [platy,swordtails], 2 corys and one khuli loach.i changed 40% of the water and praying the rest will survive. the 55 gal is fine no loss there. angels and friends are fine except for the molly who died almost immediately.i had a 30 gal tank for emergencies but it now is housing 2 rescue orandas. i might add that the remaining stock are very sick ie; not eating etc.the plecos and corys are jumping to the top frequently and are more placid than usual. thank you all for any help. i am at a loss.

 

[Lotus]

Was the aquarisol perhaps old? It can become poisonous with age, especially to tetras and scaleless fish.

I'd do a water change and add carbon, as it sounds like the meds are doing more harm than good.

 

[prettypleco]

another 20 fish died.i am now left with 3 corys,4 plecos, one banjo and about 9 platys and guppies. one green cory now has white stuff almost like scales on him and some of the platys and swordtails have bizarre looking tails [rot? overnight?].ammonia levels are a little elevated but i would expect that with all the fish deaths. ph and everything else is fine. the tank is about 7 months old and all the fish were born in that tank except for the catfish plecos and tetras.the aqua-sol is new. no one touches my tanks except me. my husband just enjoys them.no kids in the house just borzois, cats and birds.so no way the water was poisoned. we do not use any chemicals around the tanks.the tank is heavily planted and the plants are all thriving. the water is clean. i run an eheim and double bio-wheel so it is well filtered. i do water changes about 20% once to twice a week.i have no clue as to how i ended up with ?rot,?fungus, ?ich.no new fish or plants in months. i wash my hands or use gloves when fiddling around in the tank.i worked 78 hours in the last week due to mandation at work [nursing shortage]so i have not had the pleasure of watching my fish as closely as usual. i still find it hard to believe in such a short time all this could happen.i am just broken-hearted over this and ladened with guilt.so do i use the aqua-sol on the remainder? do i use melafix for the tail rot? i cannot use the salt remedie because of the corys.

 

[wayne]

I would do a 50% water change as fast as I could. I don't like the fact you've got rot or fungus upfront, and am tempted to say water quality problem, with the addition of the med causing hell by killing your filter bacteria. Any ammonia is bad in a mature tank.
Anyway if it was my tank I'd pull out 50% of the water, and then start readding dechlored tapwater at the rate of something like a bucket every hour or so till it was full again. Give it a couple of days, and repeat. I was also while I was doing this go hard at hoovering the substrate. Melafix is not a bad idea, the only other thing I'd add is dechlor. Don't worry about there being a huge water change. Things are not good anyway, so obly stress it if you have a very large difference in pH. Temperature differences , at the rate you will refill, will be minimal

 

[prettypleco]

Thanks for the advise. I did a 40% water change yesterday while syphoning the gravel. Do another now? Also, what about Jungle fungal/bacterial tank buddies? Or just stay with the melafix? Should i change the filter media? Should i add more stress coat?

 

[LongTime]

I know you said 'no chance of poison" but with that many fish lost in such a short time, that is still my first guess. It is either that or you have, as wayne said, lost your bacteria colony. The only other thing I can think of is a massive and sudden pH shift.

I would add some Bio-Spira(?) to make sure you have a bacteria colony going after doing another water change.

 

[prettypleco]

Thanks....i am on my way to the niagra aquarium for the bio-spira.I appreciate the time and knowledge provided by you and your peers.

 

[dana307]

Sounds like you've gotten plenty of suggestions, so here's a bit of empathy. Soo sorry to hear about that and I know about the guilt thing. My back went out and I had to ignore water changes for nearly 3 weeks and I had a spike, lost fish, --- it's such a bummer. I'm sure at one time or another we all have to lose a bunch of fish - disease or something and it sucks. Hang in there and don't beat yourself up too much.

Yours,
The Fishy Counselor. LOL

 

[prettypleco]

Thanks Dana307.Now i'm paranoid about treating the tank with medications. I'm pretty sure it was the aquari-sol. I'm doing some research on natural remedies and i am buying a 40 gallon sick tank for any future problems.It is so heartbreaking to see only 10 fishes in this once beautifully stocked happy active home.

 

[FroggyFox]

Thanks for the advise. I did a 40% water change yesterday while syphoning the gravel. Do another now? Also, what about Jungle fungal/bacterial tank buddies? Or just stay with the melafix? Should i change the filter media? Should i add more stress coat?

More stress coat couldn't hurt...but probably isn't going to help much.

If your water readings show any ammmonia or nitrites...or a reading of nitrates thats high....I'd do another water change every day or every other day. (if you got the biospira or are medicating you should follow the directions on the package about water changes)

Jungle brand medications have always worked for me, but its never a good idea to mix medications...so if you want to pick some up and use it after you've treated with melafix for awhile and done some water changes and/or used carbon to take it out...go for it. (biospira is not a medication, so hopefully you'll be fine using it while you're medicating) Have you checked out pimafix? Its a more natural medication (although I dont believe it'll do anything about ick which is what you were originally treating for right?).

Changing the filter media is probably not a good idea right now...any bacteria colony you have is in your filter. If its gross you should swish it in some used tank water or fresh dechlorinated water, just be sure not to rinse it in tap water.

 

[TLH]

No one has mentioned this yet so here I go.Is it possible that with all the meds and the high temp that the water became depleted of oxygen?You did say the Cory's were darting to the top.They can breath normal air a bit like anabantoids.Not sure about pleco's doing this though.
Are/were the rest of your fish hanging out near the water surface?

 

[discus4everGrl]

wouldn't spend the huge dollars on bio spira, if the tank is still sick bio spira will be killed by the inevitable medicating. Try not to treat both your 100 and 55 with meds. If you have room you may consider combining the fish if they need treatment. You never want to kill the bacteria colony in all your tanks.

I would recommend using activated carbon in the filter for 24 hours to remove the old medication which may be reminant after your water change. I would use straight up melachite green, or a medication with it as the active ingrediant. You need to use it at HALF the recommended dose. This dosage shouldn't kill your cory's and tetras. Some medications with this in it even have half dose instructions for such fish. There are no guarantee's though as your fish already are stressed and weak. What probably happened is poor water quality led to a fungus/ick out break in which you over medicated the tank for the species of fish you have.

In the mean time - in the alternative tank and if it's still cycled, ie you haven't medicated it, I would add an extra cartridge if you have two slots in your filter or floss or whatever. Hopefully while your medicating the sick tank, that extra floss in the cycled tank will catch bacteria. When your done medicating taking the extra bacteriated floss and put it in the filter of the sick tank AFTER you have allowed time for some new activated carbon to clear the tank of medication. This will help rejump your cycle. It's hell when a large tank goes crazy isn't it.

 

[Christine]

Hi Yall!

This has been one fine, fine discussion. Medication, if used in excess, can be deadly. I think we've all tripped-up in the Rx arena. I know I have. The worst time was during the first year.

PrettyPleco...

Ammonia and nitrites are the big bad bummers in all tanks. Over-feeding and fish waste *SICK* *thumbsdow can put on quite a show!

Now that you've super-vaccumed the gravel, do another 50% water change... then change it again within the next 2 days. Disrupt the gravel as little as possible. Use Cycle to age the new water (you can't overdose the stuff). Test for ammonia... *celebrate ...test for nitrites on a regular basis. I call those two the "silent enemy within" because you don't see the problem until your fish start dying. And... if you can't find their little carcasses... they join the problem.

I sure hope you can solve your problem soon.

Take care,
Christine

 

[prettypleco]

I followed your advice FroggyFox. I did a 50% water change. Vacummed the gravel again well. I added the Biospira and i am continueing to use the melafix for the 7 day dose.I did happen to pick up some pimafix the other day in the event of needing it.I did lose my large pleco but everyone else is fine including one small fry guppie. They are all swimming around and eating.. Interestingly the cory who started all this is the only catfish who survived. He is acting like nothing is wrong and i thought he was a goner.I do have one more question. It appears i am cycling my tank again by my readings. So, after the tank is stable how long would you wait to start re-stocking?Again i thank you for your help as your advice paid off.

 

[FroggyFox]

Well once you see your ammonia and nitrite disappear and the tank starts producing nitrates again I think you're safe to start stocking. Biospira is really meant to start a new tank that hasn't ever had fish in it...but it should help speed up the cycling again. As for what discusgirl said, not all medications (actually I think not many) will disrupt your bacteria colony. I dont know enough about melafix to know if its one of the ones that would disrupt it...if it is then the biospira might have been added a little too soon. You might just read the warnings on the medication, and if someone (lotus?) reads this and knows one way or the other they should speak up

Anyway...usually with biospira you're supposed to dose the tank and then stock it immediately. SO I'd say if you're not reading any ammonia or nitrites after a few days to a week then you should start again. I'd think that the other important thing to watch is make sure your existing fish are all VERY healthy and eating well. I'd hate for you to put a group of new fish into the tank and stress out the existing ones to the point of getting an outbreak of something again. Do you quarentine new fish before you put them into your big tank? Might be a good idea if you dont already do it At any rate, I'd think slow and steady would be the best idea. Let things settle for awhile and add fish back very slowly, and be very picky which fish go into the tank.