Ich Opinion

[FishDad]

Some of you may be aware that I am battling ich in my 125g. I do have a bottle of nox-ich but for now am heat treating. Tank has been at 86 for 3 days now. As of today the clown loach is the only one showing any signs although flashing is present with some of the mbunas. Water params are perfectly normal by the way. After some research I have a few questions that I would like to here opinions on...

Some think african cichlid skin/scales are durable enough to resist the parasite, but there gills are vulnerable and would then cause flashing to occur... Does that sound right? As I said, they show no classic symptoms but I am seeing flashing.

Also there seems to be a debate in the fish community, without any real conclusion, regarding the source of ich. Some say it is introduce and some say it resides within the gills almost dormant until the fish is under stress and become vulnerable. I was skeptical of that theory until I further analyzed my situation. None of the recent introductions to my tank are showing any visible signs (white spots) with exception to flashing. But the clown loach has gotten it bad, he looks like he's salted for dinner. However in the quarantine tank I never saw any hint of ich.

I suppose its a moot point since I have ich and need to focus on ridding my tank of it, but those questions have been nagging me for the past few days. Thanks for reading!

 

[Thyra]

You do say your are using heat, but you don't say anything about the daily vacuuming which I understand is very important.

 

[OrangeCones]

This link gives a lot of good info about ich. Dr. Peter Burgess completed his PhD studying ich and determined it does not 'lay dormant' until the right conditions come out.

Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist

I've been keeping fish for over 30 years and except for 2 situations, have yet to encounter ich. One was when imported fish arrived with it (10 Otocinclus cocama imported from Peru) and one was a marine fish I 'rescued' from a neighbor that was near death. Of the 10 otos, 2 died within 24 hours, the other 8 survived. The tang also survived.

 

[MTRX]

I use this stuff called quick cure that seems to work pretty well when combined with heat. I lost one fish recently to the ich though, she just wouldn't get well. i think once it's gotten to far into the advanced stages it might not be curable or something. 8(

 

[FishDad]

Thanks OC, I'll check out that article. Thyra - I have not been vacuuming because my understanding is these temps the parasite will cease to reprouce anyway. Would you would consisder this to be an incomplete treatment?
Thanks MTRX, I'll look into that product, however chems in combination with heat make me nervous due to the lack of O2.

 

[Thyra]

OC, that is quite an article!! It will take me a while to digest the whole thing and I will save it as a bookmark - it is very well written and understandable and covers a lot of territory.

 

[Thyra]

Oh, one other thing - he refers to "myths and old wive's tales". In my life span I have discovered there are an awful lot of "old men's tales" I have had to deal with. Men are just as guilty of spreading misconceptions as females IMO! LOL

 

[KcMopar]

The heat and vac treatment can take a couple to a few weeks but its worth IMO because it will not kill you BB and make you tank cycle which could wipe out even more fish. Just vac every day what ever it takes to hit the whole substrate. I know it sucks, literally!!! But it works if you are more persistent then the parasite it. Once you see no signs of it continue for a week to be sure its gone.

 

[PetCrazyy919]

When my fish get ich, I:
-raise the water temperature by 10 degrees
-put in Aquarium Salt
-vacuum the gravel daily
And it seems to go away fairly quickly. Good luck to you and your fish!

 

[MTRX]

yeah always be careful with the chemicals. i use less than directed the first time i try something out then work my up to the recommended dose. i always melafix for bacterial infections injuries and such it really helps.

 

[FishDad]

Good info guys thanks guys. I'm on day 5 now and so visible signs, including the clown loach, he's looking alot better. I'll keep you posted.

 

[FreshyFresh]

OC, that is quite an article!! It will take me a while to digest the whole thing....

Yes it sure is.

It kinda scares the heck out of me.

I recall encountering a case of Ich in a 10gal community tank I had as a child. IIRC, we medicated the tank and lost a few fish too.

Joel

 

[MTRX]

awwww i hope loachy does better. I love loaches i own 2, used to have another, but i don't know where he went. i got the chinese algae eater looking guys. i'm not sure what they are, i think i found them online as chinese algae eaters, i bought them from wal-mart. P.S. if you're ever in Universal City, don't ever go to polly's pet shop. You will get ich in your fishtanks, and various parasites, and hydras. Don't do it!!!! I once bought 21 feeders, and only 2 survived. They're now breeders. They infected everything even killed a betta. It took months to recover from the losses. I was so sad. I only buy shrimp, snails, and plants from them now. Everything I've purchased at walmart has survived, same with petsmart, and i've only lost 1 of the 4 fish I bought from petsbarn. my green atlantic molly caught ich, and passed away, but luckily she had just birthed 5 beautiful babies who came from a solid white sail fin molly!!!! hybrids anyone??!! I can't wait to see my green sail fins all grown up!! nobody caught ich either, i treated the tank like i said with the Quick Cure from wal-mart, and turning up the heat, keeping it at a steady 80DEGS all week.

8D

 

[FishDad]

Thank you, he is doing much better. All the flashing has slowed down as well. Right now there are no visible white spots anywhere so I believe I am in the part of the life cycle where the parasites are preparing to reproduce on the substrate. Hopefully the heat treatment is working and they won't be able to spawn. I'm going to keep this up for another ten days or so, but if no one shows any symptoms in the next few days then I think I have made a huge step.

BTW OC thanks for that article, it was exactly what I needed. I'll keep you guys posted, this is a pretty good reference thread I think. So far the heat treatment seems to be ok with all my fish. The ones I'm keeping a close eye on are my hillstream loach and redtail shark, their temp perams are in the 70's.

 

[OrangeCones]

BTW OC thanks for that article, it was exactly what I needed.

You're welcome, FishDad. So much 'opinion' out there and its nice to find what is the truth. They did a lot of experiments to try to induce ich and never could do so in a tank of fish properly quarantined (min two weeks at temps in at or above 86). If the fish you have can tolorate the stress of that, its a sure-fire way to prevent an ich infestation in a show tank.

 

[homerdog]

Good morning!

The timing of this thread for us is great. We have Ich!!

We're new to fishes and had a terrible time with high nitrates and nitrites and fish dying, which my young son found most distressing but, he learnt and was netting the dead fish out at the end. We have got that sorted and things have been fine for a few weeks, until little one found one of the shark skin guppies dead, although no outward signs of ich. Next day, the two lyre tail guppies were covered. I immediately added Protozin and the next day did a good hoover up and 30% water change and added more Protozin. No more dead fish and the Guppies seem happier.

Now, the raising of temp seems to be a very good way too go as well as medicating. But, we have White Cloud minnows and two other minnows and I'm not really confident in stressing them. Plus, floods of tears from the little one at 0600 in a morning is rather unsettling!

Will daily hoovering and water changes plus Protozin do the trick?

Thanks people. Glyn

 

[FishDad]

Right now I'm putting all my faith in the heat treatment. Vacuuming is not really an option because I have countless cave formations in 125gallons. The article posted above states that ich will spawn from any surface and since it just takes one parasite to spawn into thousands, vacuuming for me at least seems futile. The way I see it heat treatment should (in theory) prevent all parasites from spawning at all. This way I don't have to worry about chems killing my loaches and cats either. Thats the way I see it, for what its worth.

 

[MTRX]

I feel ya. i have such heavily plants, theres no space to really vacume. a few patches if clearing here and there so i use a large turkey baster, lung the tip under the gravel and suck out the waste and dump it in a bucket. its the inly way i can do it without messing up the plants or turning my water cloudy since baster doesn't let waste escape into the water.
another thing i forgot to mention, salt!! yes yes i know it's hard to wrap your heads around salt in freshwater tanks, but trust me it works in small amounts. the miment i quit salting my green atlantic molly became one with the fish tank. 8(
put about 1 teaspoon in each 30GALLON Tank filter's resevoir. it win't hurt anyone not even my bettas, and your luve bearers will love you for it!!(live bearers love brackish/1 TB salt per 5GALLONS). my recipe of 1-2 TSP SALT PER 30GALLONS keeps everyone happy, loaches barbs roseyreds loaches plecos bettas snails prawns they're all happy and spawning. it fights bacteria ich pop eye and bladder infections and diseases. just be gentle about it. i use jungle brand Aquarium salt. the bag reads, "for tropical fish and goldfish. reduces stress adds benificial electrolytes cleans aquariums and accessories." it works trust me just wait for everyone to get a little better incase they need to adjust. salt ain't a badword if used properly!!

 

[MTRX]

sorry for the typos. i'm on iPhone. The KB sucks on it. 8(

 

[OrangeCones]

Personally, I've never used salt in any freshwater aquarium.