Ich Opinion

[FishDad]

I'm fascinated with the salt debate. I used to salt my cichlid tank just because some people advised it. Then I stopped because some people advised it. And now I'm considering it again because, well you know. I'm sure it has been done here but I would love to see a thread about salt. It seems to be one of those issues that you can find an internet article to support whichever side you want.

By the way, day 6 of the heat treatment and day 3 with no symptoms. I think I see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Thyra]

Here is another article to add to your dilemma:
Aquaworld Aquarium - 60 Gallon Cube Planted Aquarium

 

[FishDad]

That was a pretty good article. That was the first time I read 1 1/2 cups of salt per 10g to treat ich! I think I am going to stick with heat, it seems to be working.

 

[OrangeCones]

By the way, day 6 of the heat treatment and day 3 with no symptoms. I think I see light at the end of the tunnel.

Congrats! Keep it up and you'll be cured soon!

Next time you add any fish, treat them as if they HAVE ich with the heat in the Q tank and you'll be clear of it. And isolate any plants you add for 7 days (no heat is needed, but if any ich was present, it will die off having no fish host in that time).

I always read a lot of different opinions of how to treat illness and using or not using salt. Keep in mind the author's reason for writing the article you read. I've seen many places that swear the only way to cure ich is to use a particular medication, but the website sells that medication...makes ya wonder....

 

[FishDad]

Thanks OC, I think its safe to assume I have a leg up on the ich right now. I tend not to make decisions based on one source and I enjoy research anyway. I like that idea about the quarantine, def going to do that. I have a little OB peacock in there now.

 

[MTRX]

omg don't do it!!!! you will kill everybody that tank!!!! 1.5 cupsof salt is a lie!!!! I have to call hog wash on the dude writing that article. i guarantee he's one of these dudes who her heard, "salt!!?? omg salt!!??", and ran staight to his keyboard without ever having tried relying only on what everyone else relyed on, text. remember when i said i used 1tsp per 10-30GALLONS?? i discovered that on my own. only other person i found out recently was the guy who taught me. he had withheld that secret from me. i said dude wanna konw a secret?? etc... he said oh yeah me too!! these stories are true!! they're not just coicidence. the guy said 1TSP per gallon is poppoing up in the trade cuz it really works, and it's got all the fundmentalists in an uproar like an old baptist church, but 1 cup will slaughter your tank. just remember what i said, "be gentle about it." 1 cupcake won't kill you, a lot of cupcakes won't kill you, but a lot of cupcakes over a long period of time. its a fact the treatment is safe for mollies, and goldfish. the fact other fish benifit from it just freaks people out!! i raise mollusks and arthropods, and 1tsp won't even kill them, and as for the plants....well lets just say there's a reason everybody calls my tanks, "the jungle." they are flourishing!! experience is key my friend. 1 skimpy tsp per 10-30GALLONS works fantasticly.

 

[MTRX]

oh yes, and quarantine its just good sense also practiced among me and my friends. i have a special sterile 1.5GALLON i call the sickbay and or the infermery. no gravel, water with quick cure, a couple(litteraly 2-3) of grains of salt, whisper air driven water filter(cleans and airrates), and when i drop someone in I put some duckweed and or hornwort to keep the water fresh over night between water changes.

 

[OrangeCones]

Importers routinely do freshwater dips for marine fish (3-5 mins) and saltwater dips for freshwater fish (depending on species, between 2 and 10 mins - shorter time for soft-water fish, longer for those from hard-water regions).

For the freshwater fish, the salt concentration is what the marine fish live in, far more than the salt content of 1teaspoon per 10 or 30 gallons. It is not for the fish to live in, but just to remove external parasites. The freshwater fish are then transferred to a quarantine tank for observation and treated for anything that crops up while there.

I still recommend heat (if the fish can tolorate it) for ich. Done correctly, it works well.

 

[FishDad]

Don't worry MTRX I'm not going to do that.

 

[Lotus]

I haven't had ich in my tanks since I started quarantining. Always. It seems to be the best defense.

Clown loaches will always get ich if there's any around, it seems. For anything going into our clown loach tank, we quarantine 6 weeks for tank-raised fish and 8 weeks for wild caught, at least. If they come down with something, that counter starts over. Since the tank has been up a while, we rarely add anything. That seems to be a big factor in keeping disease at bay. Once the tank is up and mature and you're not adding anything, you'll rarely have problems.

I don't really know the real truth about whether ich is always there or not. I've just learned what works for us. When I have had ich in a quarantine tank, I've used CopperSafe. It has worked really well for me. If I'm treating loaches, I always add the doses 1/3 at a time, a day or so apart, to watch for a reaction. Loaches can keel over and die quickly if they have a reaction to meds.

 

[MTRX]

@OrangeCones: yeah that's way more. i wasn't saying using 1TSP per 10-30GALLONS as a dip though, i was saying that's for them to actually live in. I've never tried a dip that hard before, but next time i see something strange like some ich or something I will try it. so you're saying dip the freshwater fish in marine water for 3-5 mins??

@Fishdad : lol thanks, I'd hate to see you come back with horror stories of your fish turning to fish jerky.

@Lotus : You're saying quarantine wild fish for 8 weeks using coppersafe?? I'll have to look for that.
generally I use my technique for 1 week, before introducing wild fish. I caught a lot of gambusias this summer, and they're doing great.
One of them actually died on the way home. I think he got banged around to much in the canisters when i had them in the basket. 8(
I rescued them from a creek that's known to be dirty cuz it's part of the drainage system, so i used ich cure, for a few days, then potassium
permanganate it works great if used correctly. especially for plants!!!! Where do i find coppersafe?? my LFS??

 

[FishDad]

6 - 8 weeks, really? What temp do you keep your Qtank at?

 

[KcMopar]

I use just a touch of marine salt in my African tank. I have a recipe I use for its water to make it like their native lake, Malawi. I use 1 teaspoon of marine salt to 10G, 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 10G, and 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt to 10G and mix well. This amount of salt does not even register on my hydrometer float for my salt tanks. I have done my African tanks like this and have never had ich in them although I am careful to dip my fish in their opposite water. I have SW tanks and FW tanks so its pretty easy. I use those hang on capture tubs like they do at the fish store to put your fish in after they catch them, the ones that hang off the top of the tank. I have small holes drilled in all sides of mine. I float to temp then I put enough of the fish store water in my acclimation container then discard all but a little, maybe 1.5-2 cups or so and I put this into the hang on specimen tub which has holes drilled about one inch under the top. I then hang this on the inside of the tank where there is good flow for about 5 minutes. This is perfect for my African and SW fish purchases seeing these two tanks are very close to the same water conditions besides the Salinity. I also dip my corals in my African tank for about a minute as well.
@Fishdad. I am glad you are seeing improvements in your tank!!!! Keep it up to be sure its all gone.

 

[FishDad]

Me too Kc, I'm gonna go for 14 days total. Btw your synos do ok with your salt mix?

 

[OrangeCones]

@OrangeCones: yeah that's way more. i wasn't saying using 1TSP per 10-30GALLONS as a dip though, i was saying that's for them to actually live in. I've never tried a dip that hard before, but next time i see something strange like some ich or something I will try it. so you're saying dip the freshwater fish in marine water for 3-5 mins??

No, they dip the marine fish for 3-5 mins in the freshwater, and 2-10 mins for the freshwater fish in the marine water (less for softwater fish, more for hardwater fish).

 

[KcMopar]

Me too Kc, I'm gonna go for 14 days total. Btw your synos do ok with your salt mix?

Never had an issue yet. Sea water is about 1.023 gravity on a hydrometer with my little bit of salt it would read 0.037 gravity this is almost 28 times less then seawater. This is more for the minerals in the salt mix then the salt. Between water changes I sometimes dose calcium chloride to keep the alkalinity up.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Sorry to dig up an oldie, but FD, how did you make out with the ich situation?

I was trying to find any good/bad/indifferent info on the API Super Ick Cure I've added to my 29gal (half-dose because of scale-less corys and snail).

Dang Petco neons are going to be the death of me.

I researched salt and heat prior to dosing with this nasty stuff, but didn't want to salt the tank due to the plants and snail.

I'm hoping for the best. I gradually raised the tank temp up to ~82F as well. Tank wont go any higher than 84F max due to the cheaper 100W heater on this tank.

 

[FishDad]

Well I have had success with all three. My cories did fine with chems at full dose but I did loose my clown loach. This article is great, it was posted earlier on this thread...
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist

 

[FreshyFresh]

Yep, thanks.

I've read that article before and just read it again for good measure. My head hurts.

The only thing that gets me is the "catching it early" thing. I had no flashing going on. Just dying neons that were basically spotless and acted just like the school until close to their end.

A frustrating parasite indeed.

 

[OrangeCones]

Unfortunately, a lot of the more common fish are mass produced on fish farms in the east, and neons have been known for years to have some inbreeding issues. They also can develop what is coined 'neon tetra disease' which can affect any fish and most say is not treatable. It doesn't sound like the neon tetra disease from your description, but could be a bad batch of fish