ich outbreak

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#1
May 26, 2006
58
4
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aqariu.ms
#1
I noticed today that a few fish in my community tank have dots of ich. There are 4 fish that have 1 dot each in various places.

I noticed a few of my baby swordtails flashing a bit. A few of my serpae tetras' fins were translucent on the ends as well.

So, I raised the temp to 86F, did a 20% water change, added 2TBSP of salt and I'm starting to build up some melafix, to keep the secondary infections in check, as well as the fin issue. I think I will need to ramp up the salt, as I just put in 1tbsp per 5G bucket of water I replaced during the PWC.

Is there anything else I should be doing? I would really rather not medicate, as I nearly always lose some fish or other when I do.

My tank specs are this:
55G cycled
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20ppm nitrate - planted tank

inhabitants:
7 zebra danios
2 plecos (3.5" - yes, I know they won't stay that small)
5 serpae tetras
5 black neon tetras (these are the source of the outbreak, I think - I got them about 2 weeks ago - all the others have been there for a while)
19 swordtail fry (3/8" to 1/2" each)
9 molly fry (<1/4" each)

I feel like I've caught it pretty early on - there are only 4 fish with visible spots, and even then, only one spot per fish. Certainly, there could be some in gill areas that I can't see.

Any other suggestions for treatment?

On a side note, WHY CAN'T THE FREAKING HEATERS ACTUALLY BE CALIBRATED TO PRODUCE THE TEMPS ON THE DIAL??!?!? I've had 3 different brands and each of them require me to adjust it based on a thermometer.
 

Pure

Pure

Elite Fish
#2
Nov 1, 2005
3,216
7
0
Jacksonville, FL
#2
You are doing everything right. Well maybe overdoing it a bit. Adding all the salt and melifix at this point isn't going to help much. Well not at all ATM. You can only kill the ich after it has left the fish and become free swimming.

There is rarely any secondary infection associated with ich, so I wouldn't treat the melifix unless you notice lesions on the fish.

You've turned the heat up so now the best thing you can do is wait.
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#3
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#3
I checked this morning and the ich spots are gone from the fish. One of the black neons has a light spot on his fin where the ich was. I can't tell if its fuzzy or just light. I'll keep an eye on it.

How long do I need to keep the heat up? There's probably no way to tell if it was the heat that caused the ich to drop, or if it was just time for it to do so, correct?
 

Pure

Pure

Elite Fish
#4
Nov 1, 2005
3,216
7
0
Jacksonville, FL
#4
The point of the heat was to speed up the life cycle of the ich. To make it hurry up and release from the fishes' body. Since that has happened now I would only keep it up for a day or so longer to ensure it is completely off the fish. Now increase your salt content. That should pretty much do the trick. Water change in a week or so to remove the salt.

Now lets look at prevention. Every time I've had ich (other than new fish) It was caused by something I did..erm well my wife did anyhow. Ich doesn't attack fish who's immune system was strong enough to fight it off. Stress is the main factor in it's being able to take ahold of your fish. In the past few days have you done anything with the tank that may have stressed the fish? Large water change where the temp of the new water was too cold?
 

MadFish

MadFish

Small Fish
#5
Jul 9, 2006
41
1
0
#5
hmm..... what u did above should be the trick. If ich still persists, u may wanna try methylene blue. fishes can tolerate it quite well... and pretty effective against Ich.
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#6
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#6
As far as what has changed:

17 days ago I added some new black neons.
17 days ago I added a few new plants (don't recall the name)
14 days ago I did a 20% PWC
7 days ago I did a PWC
7 days ago I added a dose of iron supplement for plants

Interestingly, the water that comes out of my tap is at about 77-78F, which is about the same temp as my tank has been (roughly 78F),

The ich seemed to be constrained to the black neon tetras and the swordtail fry. I did not see any ich on my danios or my serpae tetras. The black neons seem to be extremely weak fish and honestly, I'm suprised/happy that they've become well enough to make it this long. I certainly don't know it to be fact, but I would imagine that fry would be more susceptible to disease than adults, just like human kids. Is that the case? The fry are doing great - growing well, competing for food well, etc. Some of them are even up swimming with the danios for short periods of time.

I have noticed that the serpae tetras tend to chase some/all of the swordies around. I wonder if that's adding undue stress on them. The serpaes aren't trying to eat or nip at them, just telling them to "stay away" from what I can tell.

As I said, the back neons are doing pretty well, despite a questionable start. They are at the point now of schooling with the danios, which I would imagine takes quite a bit of effort. The downside to fish that school with the danios seems to be that the danios feel free to harrass them as they would other danios.
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#7
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#7
by the way, what concentration of salt should I have? I currently have 3TBSP in the 55G tank. Reading the box of salt, 1TBSP per 10G is recommended, but I don't know if that's just for background theraputic use, or if it work to counter my ich.

Another related question is this: does the salt actually affect the ich in it's swimming state? I've read conflicting accounts - but the most common answer is that salt actually doesn't kill the ich, so is this a case where the salt is bolstering the fishes immune system so that reinfection can't occur?
 

Pure

Pure

Elite Fish
#8
Nov 1, 2005
3,216
7
0
Jacksonville, FL
#8
This is the one and only case where salt actually does anything. I hate the use of salt for anything fresh water as I am a firm believer that in this day and age of modern science we have far better options for handling medical problems with our fish.

I know 2 things. Yes it kills the free swimming ich (forget what it actually does to them) and it does nothing for your fish, and is little more than a placebo for you.

Maybe some who actually use salt for ich treatment can tell you the proper dose. I do believe it is more than the recommended dose.
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#9
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#9
The ich was gone for 2 days, but when I got home from work yesterday, it was back. It only seems to be affecting a few of my black neon tetras. None of the other fish appear to have it. The neons have quite a few spots each, though. I turned the temp up another degree to 89F and added another TBSP of salt (up to 4 TBSP for the 55G tank). I'm going to add another TBSP when I get home tonight. I'm thinking about taking the neons out and letting the ich wall off in a bucket, then putting them back into the 55G tank.

If none of this works, it would seem that I have to resort to coppersafe???
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#11
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#11
Since the ich seems to be contained to only the black neons, should I pull them out and treat the separately? My concern is that I have a bunch of fry in the tank and I really don't want to do anything that's going to put them in danger.
 

C

confusion

Medium Fish
#13
May 26, 2006
58
4
0
aqariu.ms
#13
I believe you need to let the ich meds work for a few days before doing any cleanup. I know you're supposed to remove the carbon from your filter, so putting the carbon back in is probably a good first step.
 

Pure

Pure

Elite Fish
#14
Nov 1, 2005
3,216
7
0
Jacksonville, FL
#14
Like confusion said, leave the med in a for a few days just to make sure it's all been killed, then just do a decent size water change and add carbon to your filter.

Copper Safe is fry friendly and shouldn't harm them. It's probably easier on fry than all that salt.
 

J

JWright

Superstar Fish
#16
Oct 22, 2002
2,192
7
0
40
Snowy Upstate New York
www.cnytheater.com
#16
It wasn't that the salt didn't work, you just didn't have enough.

The period of time when the ich seemed to disappear was just the free-swimming life cycle stage.

I reccomend 2 teaspoon's per gallon, or thereabouts...

If you have fry, I wouldn't medicate, the salt will be gentler.

Oh, and don't worry about "aquarium salt" if don't have enough. Table salt is fine.
 

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