Information on Fish Only Setups?

[john.stone]

I guess I need to simplify and just ask if this is possible...

Tank Size: 30g (36"L x 12"W x 16"H)
Filter: Penguin 170
Powerhead: 170GPH (Maybe more?)
Liverock: No (I really honestly don't like the look of it)
Heater: 150W
Water Changes: 20%/week (I can do twice a week if needed)
Skimmer: No (Unless it's needed? I was told it wasn't if I planed to change water weekly)
Sump/Fuge: No
Decorations: None (Maybe a few Texas Holey Rocks?)
Fish: 2x Clown Fish (False)

Could anything else go with them in a 30g with no live rock (Exact species please)? Or would two clowns be fully stocked? With no live rock are snails and shrimp out of the question? Is this even possible?

Thanks for any help .

(I've put this post on a few different sites... Testing the waters and trying to see where I want to spend some of my time.)

 

[KahluaZzZ]

20 % biweekly is a lot. The snails loves the glass and substrate ( mine is aragonite crushed coral ). If you don't have LR and no substrate and no sump you won't get good biological filtration i guess. You could aim for cheap base rock ( a.k.a reef rock ) . Percula seems fine in nano cubes...and they don't swim that well...not a speedy fish so i think 30 g is more than enough for this kind. I am still a newbie, but i have a false percula. Speaking of clownfish...please get a tank raised...since the nemo movie begun, a percula frenzy occured. Overfishing is the result. They breed easily..so it shouldn't be a problem to find some that were born in a tank. Your mecanical filtration is with a bio-wheel..i heard it will be a pleasure to hear the noise from the salt jammed into the wheel...then reducing the efficiency of the filter.
Shrimps love hangouts...but i saw some living just fine on the substrate...

I guess yes everything you asked is possible..but with the little filtration you'll have don't consider to add much livestock. For the water changes..don't go insane or you'll change the stability of your water parameters.
Sudden changes of ph or salinity can definitely stress your fishes.

well i guess bigger fishes will answer you ..

 

[john.stone]

I will have sand on the bottom, but not live sand or crushed coral. It's not really the cost of the rock that's the problem, it's the look... I really want a stark white tank.

I will be sure to get tank raised. I don't buy wild fish... ever.

I heard that bio-wheel filters are fine for salt water and in fact the bio-wheel was recommended for FO tanks because of the extremely efficient biological filtration.

I'm really used to keeping fresh water fish... and more water changes = better health for them, I assumed the same with salt water. Perhaps weekly 20% or bi-weekly 10% would be better?

Thank you for your help .

 

[KahluaZzZ]

Base rock is white an often bleached if that's a clean white look that you want. But i mean, yeah there's slimy stuff in the sea and i a way, it's normal and i find it beautiful. I don't use a bio-wheel. They may clean well...but i read stuff about salt jammed into it. The salt can clog skimmer tubes too and pretty much anything that doesn't always stay in the water. It's messier than FW when you deal with salt. It's not as "clean" as freshwater.
When i started my tank couple months ago, i was ready to skip the LR..but hey..now i can tell that's the most vital stuff i have. It cleans stuff...and there's a load of tiny creatures that you often don't see that are beneficial.
Skipping on LR and skimmer can mean more trouble.
The fish feces can become a nuisance and in a standard filter, unlike a skimmer, you'll have to clean it often cause it'll stay in the filter's media..so the sh*t will still be in contact with the water. Eventually your tank will not be sparkling white.

If you don't aim for LR, aim for other rocks. Fishes need to feel protected sometimes ( if you plan to have other fishes than perculas 'cause this specie aren't shy and clownfish are easily handfed after they are acclimated )

I do 10 % weekly water change on a 55 g then 20 % after like 4-5 weeks to help reduce nitrates.

Use a heater when changing the water because your tank is small and a big temp diff will possibly stress them. Saltwater fish can stress for almost nothing !
Switching lights can stress them too.
Oh yeah...when you prepare the salt..remember that you should never mix it directly in the tank. I use a powerhead in a 10 g tank to help the salt dissolve and run it for about an hour or so. If you use an hydrometer to check the salinity, the results will be very different if you mix the salt for 5 mn compared to 1 hour.
So..if you do it quickly, your results may be wrong.

Oh..it's 4:15 am...i'm going to bed

 

[john.stone]

Hm... Sadly saltwater is starting to really seem like something I'm really not looking for... I love the clowns but if I can't give them the best home possible (staying within my creative vision) then I really don't want to have them. The fish come first.

 

[S.Reef]

Well...I think your set-up sounds fine for a few percs. You dont need live rock, its recommended but you dont need it. Tank raised fish are raised in big, over crowded tubs so they wont mind the "unnaturalness" of your tank. I would personnally get a bigger filter Bio-wheel 330 and a bigger heater. personally it sounds fine to me.

 

[aresgod]

agreed, if you just want to keep a couple of clowns and are diligent about maintenance and water changes i think you will be fine

 

[KahluaZzZ]

i don't want to say "don't do it" i'm just saying it's harder without LR. You can see perculas in nano cubes really happy. This kind of fish doesn't need a lot of room and is hardy. I'm just recommanding what people told me when i started not so long ago...and they were right.
For the water change, do what you like...i just told you my personnal method to help.
2 percs in a 30 g is ok...and you don't need special lighting.
And about the fish stress..it's just different from usual FW fishes..i never saw a FW scared of me or the light. It's just something that can happen. They come from overcrowded tanks, so they'll be much happier in your 30 g.
I was just saying that it would be easier using LR.

 

[john.stone]

No no no.... That was not my intention. I have not been discouraged. I was not "scared" away. I appreciate your input and none of it was taken the wrong way.

I'm still on the fence about it... So more posts are welcome .

 

[dbacksrat]

you could still have shrimp and snails without any LR--however, biowheels produce nitrates, which are not tolerated by shrimp or snails in excess...my advice to you is regular water changes using RO purified water which can be easily obtained at a water/ice store or at a vending machine outside the supermarket

 

[DSK]

why not just get some live rock; there are all kinds of different rock?

 

[john.stone]

I'm getting an R/O unit for xmas to breed my neons so that's really not a problem. I'm planning on 10-20% weekly changes...

The live rock I've ever seen, no matter how exotic or aged has always been.... not what I'm looking for. It's too... unclean.... Too busy with colors.. which are not the colors I'm looking for.

 

[dbacksrat]

so you want basically bare rock? that's a step AWAY from a saltwater aquarium (in my opinion)--but that's my opinion...you can still have a successful aquarium with no live rock

 

[john.stone]

Yes... Oddly enough... I'm not really looking for a traditional saltwater setup. More like a freshwater setup with salt water fish .

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do... I've gotten a lot of different answers from a lot of different people. I want what's best for the fish, and in fact is why I'm getting them. Where I live, knowledgeable fish keepers and few and far between... And I can't help but think about all of the poor clowns that are being kept in 5g aquariums with table salt... So I thought I might try to save a couple (and have a really beautiful minimalistic aquarium while I'm at it).

 

[S.Reef]

I have seen a lot of older fish onlys with plastic plants and bleached corals. Most people coming into the hobby think live rock and sand no biomedia. unnatural tanks can be set up with success. As long as you are providing biological, chemical filtration you should be fine.

 

[KahluaZzZ]

Yeah bleached coral. Good idea. That's attractive, and no stuff that you won't like.

 

[john.stone]

Thank you all for your wonderful information. The users of this site seem to be extremely knowledgeable and friendly.

I have one last question however...
Base rock and bleached coral are unavailable to me... I called my largest (non-chain) LFS and they never heard of any of it. I told them about my plans and like a LFS... they said I needed 3lbs of live rock per gallon... Bla bla bla... buy this buy that... Grr...

So my two options are texas holey rock and terracotta pots. I think the holes in the holey rock might be too small for the clowns to use effectively. So are terracotta pots safe to use in marine aquariums? I know they're fine for freshwater, but being as saltwater is so delicate I thought it would be best to ask first.

 

[KahluaZzZ]

don't know..don't think it's bad. And if you ask for base rock, tell the guy if he has "reef rock"...it's the same thing.

 

[dbacksrat]

believe me--you will want reef rock, not texas holey rock or terra cotta pots...the keyword is "natural"
show a pic if you use texas holey rock or terra cotta pots--this is gonna be interesting

 

[john.stone]

Well... I'm not actually going for natural (unless the clowns need it?). I'm going to minimalistic... Like a box of wet art... Things out of place but still beautiful in a way...