question about the levels of tanks...i understand that certain fish like levels a ceretain way...but when we say the ph should be this # and the hardness should be this and tye likecertain types of plants or caves and whether u need to add buffers to get the water quality correct...am i wrong in assuming that the majority of all the fish we buy at lfs are breed in tanks and arent taken from the actual habbitat in south american or africa...my lfs which is a rAther nice one is bout 5 min from my house...now there tanks use the same water i have so there original ph and othe levels are what mine are..i really dont think they make each tank specific for that fish and the fish all seem to live fine...so if u have fish that never been in the wild why wouldnt good quality and water readings be ok...for example for the cichlids i need aound 8 for a ph well mine is around 7.0-7.2 why would that be ok all the tanks wherever u get ur fish from arent exactly how they should be compared to the wild so is it really not necessary to have perfect exact readings for each fish dont they adapt as long as they arent totally way off from what they need... i had a greAt barb tank with 4 diff types of barbs for 2 years...the water quality was always crystal clear the fish were brightly colored and thrived in fact when i took them bAck to my lfs they put them all in a freshwater showtank that isnt for sale....in the begiining after i ran out of my test strips i never checked the water levels again(i know i should)but the water was always great looking and the fish did well so i never bothered....i am not trying to say i dont want advice from anyone because this is a great website and i enjoy coming here this is just something i always wondered about fish keeping....the lfs tanks arent always exact so is it that important for our home tanks to be....
its good to research before jumping in??
- Thread starter snoce
- Start date
Comparing tanks at home and at a LFS isn't really fair. When we buy a fish, we do so thinking that we are going to keep it for a long time. However at the LFS, they are primarily just a holding facility from the supplier or breeder, to you.
I used to think along the same way that you do snoce. So I know exactly where you are coming from. And I didn't think that it would be nessicary either at one point. But I was wrong. Beyond personal experince with Rift cichlids we look to the experts in the fields to see what they have to say about it. Brichard and Koning's both sugest a minimum of 7.5 in the home aquaria. They have spent years at the lake, in the lake and studing the fish found within. Who are we to go agianst what they have to say about it? I know my personal limited experence doesn't even come close.
Now, from my own limited experence. The Tanganyikans I kept seemed fine in water with a pH around 7.0. My N. brichardi were breeding, as well as the shellies. All seemed right in the world. I was convinced that for the longevity of my fish, that my water should be buffered. So I did. And I was very rewarded in doing so. All my cichlids have much more color, are more active, and eat like it was going out of style. Not to mention breeding like crazy. Can a fish be happy? I don't know, but they sure seemed to be it once I got my water params where they should be.
Also one of the biggest unknowns is the long term health effects on hard water fish being kept in soft water. They may not live as long, or have as big of spawns in softer water. There is a lot of variables that have not been conclusivley worked out yet.
Do what you want to do, after all it is your tank. Yes, they can live in softer water, but I truely belive that they will reward you greatly by providing the correct water and give you years of enjoyment.
I used to think along the same way that you do snoce. So I know exactly where you are coming from. And I didn't think that it would be nessicary either at one point. But I was wrong. Beyond personal experince with Rift cichlids we look to the experts in the fields to see what they have to say about it. Brichard and Koning's both sugest a minimum of 7.5 in the home aquaria. They have spent years at the lake, in the lake and studing the fish found within. Who are we to go agianst what they have to say about it? I know my personal limited experence doesn't even come close.
Now, from my own limited experence. The Tanganyikans I kept seemed fine in water with a pH around 7.0. My N. brichardi were breeding, as well as the shellies. All seemed right in the world. I was convinced that for the longevity of my fish, that my water should be buffered. So I did. And I was very rewarded in doing so. All my cichlids have much more color, are more active, and eat like it was going out of style. Not to mention breeding like crazy. Can a fish be happy? I don't know, but they sure seemed to be it once I got my water params where they should be.
Also one of the biggest unknowns is the long term health effects on hard water fish being kept in soft water. They may not live as long, or have as big of spawns in softer water. There is a lot of variables that have not been conclusivley worked out yet.
Do what you want to do, after all it is your tank. Yes, they can live in softer water, but I truely belive that they will reward you greatly by providing the correct water and give you years of enjoyment.
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME...sorry bout caps...what do u mean by buffered water and what do u suggest my readings should be and if i should use salt or not...keep in mind a few things...i have crushed coral and a larger size piece of driftwood...i have put in many rock caves and hiding places...i plan on starting with2 electri blues...thanks for all ur help
I would say pH over 7.5, and GH and KH over 10 would be a great place to start. Do you have some tests for KH?
The cichlid salt is most likley not going to affect these readings. Check it out when you get home to be sure. It will say if it affects the pH of the water or not.
I understand exactly where you are comming from. I was there too. So any information I can pass along to help I will be more than happy to do so. It can all be confusing and frustrating at first tring to figure out what everything meens. And seperate whats important from whats not.
The cichlid salt is most likley not going to affect these readings. Check it out when you get home to be sure. It will say if it affects the pH of the water or not.
I understand exactly where you are comming from. I was there too. So any information I can pass along to help I will be more than happy to do so. It can all be confusing and frustrating at first tring to figure out what everything meens. And seperate whats important from whats not.
i use the all in 1 test strips...so i dont get exact #reading...but i can tell where bout the # reads...plus i have the amonia test strip...when i get home i will check the reading again and see what type of salt i am using...so it seems for now i am doing just fine the way it is goingi would like to get 2 e. blues over the weekend...
ok as of this morning at 6am my readings are....
nitrates 20(it says its acceptable but i know i need to get it down more)
nitrites 0
gh 150(on strips is considered hard)
ph 7.3-7.8(not an exact # dues to using test strips)
kh 120
so far the ph has gone up from what it was a day or so ago(6.8)...what causes it to go up....i want to give it another day or so to see it go up more i hope....if ph stays around 7.5 consistantly can i add my electric blues this weekend...or should i buy ph up to get it at 8.0 first.....
nitrates 20(it says its acceptable but i know i need to get it down more)
nitrites 0
gh 150(on strips is considered hard)
ph 7.3-7.8(not an exact # dues to using test strips)
kh 120
so far the ph has gone up from what it was a day or so ago(6.8)...what causes it to go up....i want to give it another day or so to see it go up more i hope....if ph stays around 7.5 consistantly can i add my electric blues this weekend...or should i buy ph up to get it at 8.0 first.....
That hardness could really stand to be up a little more IMO. And a ph of 7.3-7.8 is a pretty significant difference. Any chance you could get a more accurate reading of this?
The CC substrate can make it go up. But also the water out of the tap will be lower than water that has aged for a day. If you took your other test soon after a WC, then that could have affected the test.
Do not buy or use Ph UP. It will not do anything long term to the waters PH. This is not a way to get the water's pH up. If you do not want to mess with the Baking soda and Epsom salts, then there are several comercialy made buffers available. If your LFS does not carry these, I know that Big Al's and Foster and Smith does.
If you are going to buffer your water, I would sugest a different type of test kits for Ph, Gh and Kh. Once you begin buffering, its important to know the exact numbers, not just an estimate. Not using the dip strips and switching to these would be a very wise move for both you and your fish.
The CC substrate can make it go up. But also the water out of the tap will be lower than water that has aged for a day. If you took your other test soon after a WC, then that could have affected the test.
Do not buy or use Ph UP. It will not do anything long term to the waters PH. This is not a way to get the water's pH up. If you do not want to mess with the Baking soda and Epsom salts, then there are several comercialy made buffers available. If your LFS does not carry these, I know that Big Al's and Foster and Smith does.
If you are going to buffer your water, I would sugest a different type of test kits for Ph, Gh and Kh. Once you begin buffering, its important to know the exact numbers, not just an estimate. Not using the dip strips and switching to these would be a very wise move for both you and your fish.
well heres my update...when i added cichlid salt my ph dropped to 6.5 from 7.2....knowing i needed a high ph of 8 i did go and buy the seachems ph up for african cichlids...within a few hours the ph was up to 8....the gh and kh was at almost near perfect levels that i was told they should be the nitrates and nitrites were also perfect...so sat afternoon i added 1 yello lab and 1 elcrtic blue so far....the water readings have been the same everytime i tested...the fish are swimming nicely and hiding alot...its neat to see the johanni scooping cc in its mouth and spitting it out...why do they do this....i will continue to use the ph up whenever is needed...from what i have always done in the past has worked so i will continue the same way....what i am looking for now is a cichlid that is compatible to mine now and that swim in open water...i need some fish that dont always like rock caves to hide
I belive that product by seachem is the real deal for a buffering product. I was thinking along the lines of the PH up and down made by AP.
You should use it every time you do a water change to keep the ph stable.
Just keep an eye on it to make sure its not swinging either way for a while. Sounds like your off to a good start.
A majority of the cichlids like rocks and caves. By adding more fish, they will feel more comfortable and will come out more. The whole saftey in numbers thing. As for particular species, can't help you there, I've never been much of a malawi guy.
You should use it every time you do a water change to keep the ph stable.
Just keep an eye on it to make sure its not swinging either way for a while. Sounds like your off to a good start.
A majority of the cichlids like rocks and caves. By adding more fish, they will feel more comfortable and will come out more. The whole saftey in numbers thing. As for particular species, can't help you there, I've never been much of a malawi guy.
Cichlid salt is a product that is sold to help you replicate the hard water of the African Rift Lakes.
In my cichlid tank, I use aquarium salt....1 tbs for each 5 gal....
You can buy a couple of other products though...
Kent Liquid Cichlid Chemistry (buy the buffer too, if you use this...and make sure you can measure your pH and water hardness...)
Cichlid Salts (replicate the water chemistry of either Lake Malawi or Tangankeioohoohaahaa (can't spell it...) because of the rocky lakes, they have more dissolved minerals/salts in them...)
They aren't required, but aquarium salt/cichlid salt/liquid cichlid chemistry will help your fish color up a bit more, and may make them feel more 'at home', but none are 'necesarry'....... I didn't start using salt/liquid cichlid till I had an outbreak of pop-eye...... (happy to report that everybody made it thru that ordeal)
Now, after doing all of my water changes to rid my tank of the salt, i use liquid cichlid chemistry, made by kent's.
::beging bragging::
I don't know if it is helping, but i have noticed my fish are more active/aggressive/eating a LOT more, and have REALLY colored up. My red zebras (which, are orange, why they call them red..pff...) are now soooooooo pretty colored...I will HAVE to get pictures up. My cichlids rival those foo-foo salty fish.
::end bragging::
In my cichlid tank, I use aquarium salt....1 tbs for each 5 gal....
You can buy a couple of other products though...
Kent Liquid Cichlid Chemistry (buy the buffer too, if you use this...and make sure you can measure your pH and water hardness...)
Cichlid Salts (replicate the water chemistry of either Lake Malawi or Tangankeioohoohaahaa (can't spell it...) because of the rocky lakes, they have more dissolved minerals/salts in them...)
They aren't required, but aquarium salt/cichlid salt/liquid cichlid chemistry will help your fish color up a bit more, and may make them feel more 'at home', but none are 'necesarry'....... I didn't start using salt/liquid cichlid till I had an outbreak of pop-eye...... (happy to report that everybody made it thru that ordeal)
Now, after doing all of my water changes to rid my tank of the salt, i use liquid cichlid chemistry, made by kent's.
::beging bragging::
I don't know if it is helping, but i have noticed my fish are more active/aggressive/eating a LOT more, and have REALLY colored up. My red zebras (which, are orange, why they call them red..pff...) are now soooooooo pretty colored...I will HAVE to get pictures up. My cichlids rival those foo-foo salty fish.
::end bragging::