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FishDad

Superstar Fish
Mar 4, 2012
1,218
1
38
Cleveland
#21
This tends to be an on going issue with cichlids too. Many serious cichlid breeders, I have found are quite adamant about destroying mixed breed cichlids. I don't really see the big deal except of course trying to pass off a mutt as a pure breed.

I've never really been that impressed with angels anyway. I want discus!
 

FreshyFresh

Superstar Fish
Jan 11, 2013
1,337
23
38
East Aurora, NY
#22
Now that's a great point- trying to pass off a pure for a mixed breed. Didn't think of that scenario.

I've got one koi angel in my 55 that's quite entertaining. This is probably a prime example of a fish bred for it's coloration.
 

Thyra

Superstar Fish
Jun 2, 2010
1,891
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Yelm, WA
#23
I believe pedigrees and lineages are rather nebulous attributes - sometimes accidentally and sometimes on purpose for profit. My Grandpa breed appaloosas and had two mares that were ready to foal so he was checking them all night long in the pasture. He actually saw them born - very close in time and proximity and lo and behold the mares switched.!! and they stayed that way. If he hadn't seen it with his own eyes, he wouldn't have believed it. And of course in the horse world, buyers want to know sires and dams. You can sort of see the long range result. Generations down the road one of them is no longer going to carry those "great bloodlines" that are listed on their pedigrees! (In this case, Grandpa was able to keep the pedigree accurate )
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#24
BTW OC I did not know that about Angels. What should they look like in the wild?
Check out this link for what man-made varieties of angels have been produced: Angelfish Genetics - Types of angelfish

Although I'm not a fan of 'wiki' pages, since anyone can change them, this link shows the three different species that are currently recognized as 'freshwater angelfish.' Pterophyllum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It shows their different head shapes, and you can click on the link of each species to see a picture of a wild angelfish.

Those sold/bred for the pet trade are thought to be hybrids of the original 3 'wild' angelfish. Selectively breeding them for color and fin shape/length has led to a man-made fish, similar to the betta splendens we've been breeding for hundreds of years.
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#27
To each his own, FreshyFresh! It is just my preference to have wild-type fish. Maybe because I like things that are unusual and not seen in every-other aquarium.

I'm sure your angel is a wonderful fish. A friend of mine has an all-black veil-tail angel, which is quite beautiful. Everyone has their own preferences!
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#31
Seems like P. altum in your fish's bloodlines, by the shape of the face :) Very pretty fish.

And your planted tank looks nice. I like the different shaped plants next to each other. I'm sure the fish like the natural look too.
 

FreshyFresh

Superstar Fish
Jan 11, 2013
1,337
23
38
East Aurora, NY
#32
It's a funny fish. Normally he follows and never takes his eyes off my wife and I because of feeding and whatnot, maybe my oldest child too.. When I approached the tank with the camera he was very spooked by it.
 

Feb 27, 2009
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#33
When I was breeding and taking pictures of Badis badis, I had to leave the camera and tripod next to the tank 24/7 because they would be spooked when I brought it over. After a few days, they ignored it.
 

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#34
I saw the thing about cross breeding cihclids. I've had that happen in my tank. i've got yellow lab and maingano hybrids. I'd never try to sell them or trade them. i like them in my tank. they are kinda interesting. but i try to stick to the pure bred captive bred fish. I prefer captive cause of the ecological impact as i've stated before but with selecive breeding you also get beautiful vibrant colors that in some cases are not found in wild fish.
 

Feb 27, 2009
4,395
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#35
Wild-caught vs. tank-raised vs. mass produced on fish-farms: It is not all black/white.

Some environments are actually helped by locals catching their native fish for the aquarium trade. If that vocation were removed, some areas of the world go back to clear-cutting rainforest land for lumber and agriculture.

Those that allow the harvest of their native ornamental fish do not allow any to overharvest as they know that decimating the population means no fish to catch/sell next season.

Just as in the USA, where permits are given to hunt specific species and only during certain months of the year, and bag-limits on number killed and gender, it is the same in the South American aquarium fish trade industry. At some time of year, it is illegal to take certain species, to not disrupt natural spawning times. And instead of a fine or jail, breaking the rules is often dealt with rather harshly, which can include the death of the poacher. No long trials and both sides of the story heard in most cases, as the 'game warden' is both 'judge and jury' and the suspected poacher is at his mercy.

Ever wonder why the 'zebra pleco' is so costly? It can be bred in captivity, and those that sell its offspring are often the only source. Peru limited its trade long ago, and has rarely allowed it to be exported in recent years. Those that were collecting it were overharvesting, so its trade was halted.

Wild-caught fish are not all bad. But it pays to do your research.
 

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FishDad

Superstar Fish
Mar 4, 2012
1,218
1
38
Cleveland
#37
OC, My local cichlid supplier just relayed that same info to me. He deals in fancy plecos as well and has stated that he may have to get out of that area of business. You just can't get them any more for a reasonable price.
 

FreshyFresh

Superstar Fish
Jan 11, 2013
1,337
23
38
East Aurora, NY
#38
Never saw a zebra pleco before. WOW!

My wife fell in love with a big'ol pleco in a large bow-front display tank at our local (gasp!) Petsmart. "Oh! you have to get one of these." No dear.. Those can get like 2ft long.
 

exhumed07

Superstar Fish
Apr 30, 2006
1,774
0
36
Illinois
#39
I'm not saying it's all bad oc. but as u stated poaching does happen. if a down and out person can make a few bucks by netting fish illegally they will do it, and if that person does good on it then others will notice and follow suit. I can't tell u how many people i have reported to the Illinois DNR for poaching, over the limit, under the size limit, or other violations. if people think they can get away with it they will. if their is no demand then there is no money in it. no money in it and no more poaching. Also i'm sure the aquarium trade is not stopping clear cutting of forests. just look at areas where gold has been found in south america. they level everything and pump muddy water into the rivers destroying the fishes habitat. that strains the fish and entire generations can be lost and then u got the legal catching of these fish along side the illegal. eventually there is a time when it's all going to go to crap, and the environment will take generations upon generations to even remotely rebound. There are so many ways to look at it OC and there are so many what if's and variables to this discussion of wild vs tank raised. neither one of us could ever learn all the facts or predict what would happen if they stopped doing this or that. it just simply comes down to view point. I have my view on the subject and choose to do what i think is right, as do you.