Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Update: Results of not cleaning
If you do not clean your screen in FW once a week (or at least put the whole screen in FW, and clean half of it), here is what happens:
1. Pods start growing and multipling in the bottom layers of the algae. They do this by eating more of the algae. They then get washed off into the water and get consumed.
2. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting shaded by the new algae that grows on top of it.
3. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting less flow, because they are being covered up by the new algae that grows on top of it.
4. The algae starts growing up into the slot in the pipe, causing less water to flow out.
5. The algae gets thicker and longer and heavier, and thus "lets go" from the screen easier.
The results of 1, 2, 3, and 4 above, is that the bottom layers (which you can't see because they are underneath) start dying and disolving back into the water. The result of #5 is that large pieces of algae on the top layers (that normally would be useful) also go into the water and die due to lack of light.
However, you don't see any of this. What you do see is that the growth seems to be great, but it gets to a certain point and stops. It seems to have "stopped growing". Also the nutrients start rising. So the tendancy of some folks is to leave it longer without cleaning it, so to give the algae "more time to grow". Big mistake.
What is happening is that the underlying layers are dying off so fast, that the algae is being removed from the bottom as fast as it is growing on the top. Kind of like building a second floor on top of a house, but then removing the first floor: You end up with a one-level house again. But then you take all the materials that you got from removing the first floor, and you use them to build a new second floor. But then you tear apart the first floor again, etc.
So what is happening is that the bottom layers (and the top layers that let go) are putting Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate back into the water, which gets used to grow new algae on the top layers again. So the scrubber can no longer filter your tank because it is so busy re-growing new layers to replace the old layers that died.
The easy solution to all of this is to just do your weekly cleaning in FW. And the solution to #5 (which really is the smallest problem) is to put a light-shield along the slot.
If you do not clean your screen in FW once a week (or at least put the whole screen in FW, and clean half of it), here is what happens:
1. Pods start growing and multipling in the bottom layers of the algae. They do this by eating more of the algae. They then get washed off into the water and get consumed.
2. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting shaded by the new algae that grows on top of it.
3. The bottom layers of algae (attached to the screen) start getting less flow, because they are being covered up by the new algae that grows on top of it.
4. The algae starts growing up into the slot in the pipe, causing less water to flow out.
5. The algae gets thicker and longer and heavier, and thus "lets go" from the screen easier.
The results of 1, 2, 3, and 4 above, is that the bottom layers (which you can't see because they are underneath) start dying and disolving back into the water. The result of #5 is that large pieces of algae on the top layers (that normally would be useful) also go into the water and die due to lack of light.
However, you don't see any of this. What you do see is that the growth seems to be great, but it gets to a certain point and stops. It seems to have "stopped growing". Also the nutrients start rising. So the tendancy of some folks is to leave it longer without cleaning it, so to give the algae "more time to grow". Big mistake.
What is happening is that the underlying layers are dying off so fast, that the algae is being removed from the bottom as fast as it is growing on the top. Kind of like building a second floor on top of a house, but then removing the first floor: You end up with a one-level house again. But then you take all the materials that you got from removing the first floor, and you use them to build a new second floor. But then you tear apart the first floor again, etc.
So what is happening is that the bottom layers (and the top layers that let go) are putting Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate back into the water, which gets used to grow new algae on the top layers again. So the scrubber can no longer filter your tank because it is so busy re-growing new layers to replace the old layers that died.
The easy solution to all of this is to just do your weekly cleaning in FW. And the solution to #5 (which really is the smallest problem) is to put a light-shield along the slot.
Successes Update:
Labperck on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "My system is 130 liters, DIY skimmer, 5 pounds of live rock, aragonite substrate 3-4 cm, 1 crossbow bursa fish, 2 percula clowns, and 2 feather dusters. Nitrate remained at 40 mg/l with changes in water of 20 percent a week. With changes in water 20 percent weekly, there was no noticeable improvements. Started with the vodka method, nitrates lowered to 30 mg/l, with no change of water for 2 months. The display was filled with filamentous algae and cyano. Then I found this scrubber and decided to try it. Installed lighting on both sides, and started turning off the skimmer at night. A week later, the nitrates are at zero, and the water is more crystalline. For now I'm very happy with this filter, thank you SantaMonica, JulioVideo, and all those who put their advice."
Emporador on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "Best of all is that today is the first time in my life watching the NO3 test Salifert no3 = 0 ... I can not really believe. Apart from all my efforts to maintain a good filter system, this really gives the expected results."
RiaanP on the MASA site: "Scrubber is now over 3 months old, Phosphates and Nitrates used to be sky high, but now I got no PO4 or NO3 problems."
MarkM3 on the RS site: "Just want to say thanks to Santa Monica. i begin my double-screen 2 month ago for 180 gal heavey load fish, and few soft, lps corals, and i always had 80-100 nitrates from havey stock fish. and now for the first time in 2 years my nitrates level are ((((10 ppm)))) which is amazing, corals are much happier, and pop there polyps more and more, hair algee on the display and rocks almost gone, still have a few red slim but less than before, much more cleanner display and caroline is growing too. its true, its active, its working the algee scrubberrrrrrrrr. go go go gooooo so thanks again."
SimonSKL on the MD site: "Just an update. I have started my ATS [2 months ago] but changed screen material about 5 weeks ago. Today, I am happy to say all cyano have disappeared from my tank and 95% of the hair algae are gone also. I have to add that I did change the water flow pattern by modifying two of my Maxijet 1200 with the Sure Flow adaptors. One pushes 2100gph and the other 1600gph, in a wavemaking mode. The screens that I now used are plastic canvas and doubled layers. I am still getting really dark brown algae growing on the screens and cleaning them about every 5-6 days. "
Glock339 on the UR site: "I [originally] set up my current nano to be Miracle Mud eco system. However I never actually got round to planting any algae in the MM, as I set up an algae scrubber and my params went perfect in a few weeks. so I' happy with things the way they are and probably shouldnt have bothered with the MM. Dunno if this helps but I'd defo recommend considering a scrubber to anyone wanting to ditch the skimmer and phos reactor."
MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update. nitrates undetectable with my test strips, so probably like 10 ppm, which is half of what i started with, so thats cool. i don't have a phosphate test but algae growth has slowed way way down already and my sand is actually white now, my fish are sooooooo active now its kinda nuts, even my flame angel and blue tang follow me waiting for food. i have nothing but the scrubber on there now and the tank is better than ever! all secondary filteration has been romoved for about a week and everything is continueing to improve. on my sheets brown started and soon turned dark brown with some green patches. i cleaned when the brown was too thick to see the sheet and noticed quite a bit of green underneath. coralline has noticanly increased its growthrate already and algae growth has almost stopped in the display, or my algae eaters eat it faster than it can grow. the rocks "leaked" [phosphate] for just a couple days and now are almost completely nuissance algae free and looking great. i am really impressed with the speed and effectiveness of this thing. i think using fabric really helped because how well the agae spores catch and hold on. in my opinion it is superior to any medium tried yet."
Dragon1188 on the SG site: "Just like to share that i just simply use a piece of plastic sheet (the white color one u can buy from Popular bookshop and quite rough) inclined at 30 degree to catch the return water to my sump. The piece of plastic is lighted by 2x8watt of Philips "tornado" energy saver bulb running 24x7 [should be 18 hours]. The piece of plastic is just 46cm long and 40cm wide. Total water flow over it is about 2000L/hr. My tank and sump volume is 400 L. After 1months, green (both hairy and fern like) and red algae (matt) growing like crazy [on the screen]. Can harvest 1 fistfull every 3 days. I had even removed my phosphate reactor and skimmer. Its been running 4months now and my phosphate is about 0.01ppm and nitrate is 0."
Da_Gopherboy on the 3R site: "I also battled nitrates for a while, my tank was FOLR for a while before I desided to add coral. Since I didn't intend to go in that direction originally nitrates were not my concern. So I was stuck trying to figure out how to drop the nitrates without contant water changes, or buying a denitrator (US Economy makes me poor). I made an ATS scrubber that was fed by my overflow right above my refugium. Nitrates made almost an 80% decrease within less than 2 months."
DangerDave on 3R: "I have been running the turf scrubber close to 4 months now. I haven't done a water change in about 2 months now. I just top the tank off. I do not have to clean the glass every couple hours or everyday. I clean the glass about once or twice a week (I have to clean/scrap the coraline off more than the algae). Coraline has taken off, corals are flourishing, mushrooms are splitting like crazy, everything is doing superb."
Labperck on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "My system is 130 liters, DIY skimmer, 5 pounds of live rock, aragonite substrate 3-4 cm, 1 crossbow bursa fish, 2 percula clowns, and 2 feather dusters. Nitrate remained at 40 mg/l with changes in water of 20 percent a week. With changes in water 20 percent weekly, there was no noticeable improvements. Started with the vodka method, nitrates lowered to 30 mg/l, with no change of water for 2 months. The display was filled with filamentous algae and cyano. Then I found this scrubber and decided to try it. Installed lighting on both sides, and started turning off the skimmer at night. A week later, the nitrates are at zero, and the water is more crystalline. For now I'm very happy with this filter, thank you SantaMonica, JulioVideo, and all those who put their advice."
Emporador on the AR site, translated from Spanish as best possible: "Best of all is that today is the first time in my life watching the NO3 test Salifert no3 = 0 ... I can not really believe. Apart from all my efforts to maintain a good filter system, this really gives the expected results."
RiaanP on the MASA site: "Scrubber is now over 3 months old, Phosphates and Nitrates used to be sky high, but now I got no PO4 or NO3 problems."
MarkM3 on the RS site: "Just want to say thanks to Santa Monica. i begin my double-screen 2 month ago for 180 gal heavey load fish, and few soft, lps corals, and i always had 80-100 nitrates from havey stock fish. and now for the first time in 2 years my nitrates level are ((((10 ppm)))) which is amazing, corals are much happier, and pop there polyps more and more, hair algee on the display and rocks almost gone, still have a few red slim but less than before, much more cleanner display and caroline is growing too. its true, its active, its working the algee scrubberrrrrrrrr. go go go gooooo so thanks again."
SimonSKL on the MD site: "Just an update. I have started my ATS [2 months ago] but changed screen material about 5 weeks ago. Today, I am happy to say all cyano have disappeared from my tank and 95% of the hair algae are gone also. I have to add that I did change the water flow pattern by modifying two of my Maxijet 1200 with the Sure Flow adaptors. One pushes 2100gph and the other 1600gph, in a wavemaking mode. The screens that I now used are plastic canvas and doubled layers. I am still getting really dark brown algae growing on the screens and cleaning them about every 5-6 days. "
Glock339 on the UR site: "I [originally] set up my current nano to be Miracle Mud eco system. However I never actually got round to planting any algae in the MM, as I set up an algae scrubber and my params went perfect in a few weeks. so I' happy with things the way they are and probably shouldnt have bothered with the MM. Dunno if this helps but I'd defo recommend considering a scrubber to anyone wanting to ditch the skimmer and phos reactor."
MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update. nitrates undetectable with my test strips, so probably like 10 ppm, which is half of what i started with, so thats cool. i don't have a phosphate test but algae growth has slowed way way down already and my sand is actually white now, my fish are sooooooo active now its kinda nuts, even my flame angel and blue tang follow me waiting for food. i have nothing but the scrubber on there now and the tank is better than ever! all secondary filteration has been romoved for about a week and everything is continueing to improve. on my sheets brown started and soon turned dark brown with some green patches. i cleaned when the brown was too thick to see the sheet and noticed quite a bit of green underneath. coralline has noticanly increased its growthrate already and algae growth has almost stopped in the display, or my algae eaters eat it faster than it can grow. the rocks "leaked" [phosphate] for just a couple days and now are almost completely nuissance algae free and looking great. i am really impressed with the speed and effectiveness of this thing. i think using fabric really helped because how well the agae spores catch and hold on. in my opinion it is superior to any medium tried yet."
Dragon1188 on the SG site: "Just like to share that i just simply use a piece of plastic sheet (the white color one u can buy from Popular bookshop and quite rough) inclined at 30 degree to catch the return water to my sump. The piece of plastic is lighted by 2x8watt of Philips "tornado" energy saver bulb running 24x7 [should be 18 hours]. The piece of plastic is just 46cm long and 40cm wide. Total water flow over it is about 2000L/hr. My tank and sump volume is 400 L. After 1months, green (both hairy and fern like) and red algae (matt) growing like crazy [on the screen]. Can harvest 1 fistfull every 3 days. I had even removed my phosphate reactor and skimmer. Its been running 4months now and my phosphate is about 0.01ppm and nitrate is 0."
Da_Gopherboy on the 3R site: "I also battled nitrates for a while, my tank was FOLR for a while before I desided to add coral. Since I didn't intend to go in that direction originally nitrates were not my concern. So I was stuck trying to figure out how to drop the nitrates without contant water changes, or buying a denitrator (US Economy makes me poor). I made an ATS scrubber that was fed by my overflow right above my refugium. Nitrates made almost an 80% decrease within less than 2 months."
DangerDave on 3R: "I have been running the turf scrubber close to 4 months now. I haven't done a water change in about 2 months now. I just top the tank off. I do not have to clean the glass every couple hours or everyday. I clean the glass about once or twice a week (I have to clean/scrap the coraline off more than the algae). Coraline has taken off, corals are flourishing, mushrooms are splitting like crazy, everything is doing superb."
You should replace the lights every 3 months. If they worked before, they'll work again. Do that first.
If the green on just on the sand, then you have uneaten food rotting in the sand (that's why it's not on the rocks, because the food falls into the sand). Stir up the top one inch of sand (vacuum if you can). Add more flow to the display, so food will not fall to the bottom (you want the corals/fish to eat it). And yes, you can add more light to the scrubber if you want. Lastly you can get more clean up folks to work on the sand.
If the green on just on the sand, then you have uneaten food rotting in the sand (that's why it's not on the rocks, because the food falls into the sand). Stir up the top one inch of sand (vacuum if you can). Add more flow to the display, so food will not fall to the bottom (you want the corals/fish to eat it). And yes, you can add more light to the scrubber if you want. Lastly you can get more clean up folks to work on the sand.
Update: Best Ready-To-Use Light
Aside from a custom-made T5H0 light panel (lots of lumens, really near the screen), the best overall light you can buy is something like this outdoor landscaping light:
It's non-rusting, non-corrosive, weatherproof, thin, temperature resistant, compact flourescent, bolt-on, adjustable, and the bulbs are replaced easily:
RAB PLF39 39W CFL Landscape Flood 120V:
RAB PLF39 39W CFL Landscape Flood 120V - ProLighting.com
Housing and Lens: Corrosion and vandal resistant polycarbonate lens and housing.
Lamp: (3) 13W twin tube fluorescent GX23 (Included).
Lens Gasket: High temperature tubular silicone.
Finish: Architectural bronze.
Reflector: Anodized aluminum.
Voltage: 120 volts AC.
Mounting: Adjustable swivel mounting arm with 1/2" thread.
Size: 7.25" (18cm) wide, 9" (23cm) high, 3.5" (9cm) deep
Cost: $67 USD
This one is 39 watts (three bulbs) which is perfect for most screens, but they make smaller 26 and 13 watt (nano) size ones also. These types of light are surely available at larger home improvement stores, I just could not find them. Here are some other types too:
Lights of America 65W Fluorex Floodlight (White) (9265)
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture100/classiclighting/product3.jpg
Positive Energy Conservation Products | Online Shopping
Aside from a custom-made T5H0 light panel (lots of lumens, really near the screen), the best overall light you can buy is something like this outdoor landscaping light:
It's non-rusting, non-corrosive, weatherproof, thin, temperature resistant, compact flourescent, bolt-on, adjustable, and the bulbs are replaced easily:
RAB PLF39 39W CFL Landscape Flood 120V:
RAB PLF39 39W CFL Landscape Flood 120V - ProLighting.com
Housing and Lens: Corrosion and vandal resistant polycarbonate lens and housing.
Lamp: (3) 13W twin tube fluorescent GX23 (Included).
Lens Gasket: High temperature tubular silicone.
Finish: Architectural bronze.
Reflector: Anodized aluminum.
Voltage: 120 volts AC.
Mounting: Adjustable swivel mounting arm with 1/2" thread.
Size: 7.25" (18cm) wide, 9" (23cm) high, 3.5" (9cm) deep
Cost: $67 USD
This one is 39 watts (three bulbs) which is perfect for most screens, but they make smaller 26 and 13 watt (nano) size ones also. These types of light are surely available at larger home improvement stores, I just could not find them. Here are some other types too:
Lights of America 65W Fluorex Floodlight (White) (9265)
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture100/classiclighting/product3.jpg
Positive Energy Conservation Products | Online Shopping