My Male Betta is in the strangest mood!

[whiteangel]

Over the past few weeks while starting my own litte aquarium and pretty much being a beginner when it comes to collecting tropical fish, I have experienced a bit with my male Betta.

I have gone through two black widows dying, my male betta looking not too well. My male Betta has gone from one tank to another and back again.

I have researched so much different information from different sources and information is always given differently.

I was worried about the welfare of my male Betta when he wasent looking very well and so I went to ask a petshop nearby my house about what to do.

I then found out that Betta's can be quite lazy fish because of their small fins they use to swim and can tire quickly and feel out of place in bigger areas then their use too.

I have since added some female Betta to the 16 Litre tank, at first he didnt seem to care at all, I thought he would go crazy, being that he's male and thats what male's usually do when in the presence of the opposite sex, but he didnt.

For a few days I got worried about him, he just hovered up in the top corner of the tank, only every now and then coming out to swim around for a couple of seconds to check things out then go back to his usual spot, still not taking notice of the female betta's I had placed in the tank. The female betta's would spend much time swimming around near him, but he still seemed reluctant to care.

I was worried, but knew he would be ok, he was not laying on the bottom of the tank as he had previously done and he was not being pushed around the tank by the filter or airstone bubbles, this was a good sign.

Now the strange part...over the past few days he has been swmming around like he owns the place, sorta of anyways.

He has been swimming back and fowards in one part of the tank, never stopping, he now and then chases the females around for a couple of seconds but then goes back to what he was doing.

I thought that they got tired quickly, but he doesnt seem to be tiring in a hurry.

They have all been eating fine and swimming around constantly, which is what I want them to do, I was afraid they may not be too energetic because of their little fins.

Although there is ammonia in the tank, they dont seem to show any signs of slowing at the momemt, so that is good, they are good hardy fish.

So, what would be going on with my male betta?

He is just very strange.

If anyone knows I would be very much appreciative. He looks like he is taking a run off to dive out of the water, but keeps swimming backward and forward.

 

[PreciousGems]

First off (I know I told you this, but the responses in this section may not be so nice twords this topic), seperate your male from your females. This will solve some of your big issues: ammonia, sulking, and hyperactivity.

16 Liters = 4.22720 US Gallons. Only 3 female bettas should be housed in this aquarium at the MOST, or one male betta with some otos or ADF or BB gobies (which I know you wanted ). Cutting down on your inhibitants will lower the ammonia greatly, and you don't have to worry about the females ganging up on the male or the male on the females.

Secondly, do you have a heater? Temperature plays a huge role in aquariums. If the temp is lower the 72*F you will see the sulking and dull colors, while if you have a heater (a 25 watt heater will suffix, but remove the fish while you adjust the temp) in teh range of 75-78*F, you will see bright colors and activity (higher temps cause overactivity and sever problems).

Thirdly, bettas are notorius jumpers. If there are any gaps, your male or females are at risk of jumping out. Especially your male if he is spazing out so bad. His hyperness may come from the over crowding, another reason why you should seperate them.

Alexa

 

[Iggy]

Seperate them unless you want a few hundred babies to take care of. Seriously, use a tank divider or get another tank for the female, or he will either kill her outright or mate with her then kill her. Male/female bettas DO NOT MIX if you are not intending to breed them, and even then you have to remove both the male and female after the fry are free swimming.

Most bettas are kept in small spaces for so long they loose muscle mass (they degrade) and are very weak swimmers and act lethargic untill they get back in shape. Like Alexa said, heat affects activity as well.

Bettas get more aggressive with age. Trust me, he will kill her.

 

[whiteangel]

I have three females...

I actually have three females, not just the one.

The salesperson sold all three to me for that reason, so he wouldnt pick on just the one.

If I do see any aggression at all, I will serperate them, but for the moment they are all doing fine.

Really they are, they are all swimming around happy as can be.

The only problem I have is that they are big pigs, but I only feed them once a day, so their fine.*crazysmil

 

[Iggy]

No, its not fine. He will kill the girls off one by one, maybe overnight or when you are out, but it will surely happen.

Even females will fight each other (mine did) and you can bet that your male will snap one day and go after your females.

I know you might not want to hear this, and your salesperson may be thinking its fine, but it will only lead to disaster sooner or later.

Get another tank for your girls or for your male. I have researched this quite a bit, and everyone who said 'its fine' one day come back with a post that says 'my male betta killed my female'..... this could be you!

 

[Scarab]

I TOTALLY agree with Iggy and PreciousGems!

 

[whiteangel]

For gods sake, would ya all get over it...

I have told everyone that reads this thread that should anything at all change in the tank, I will seperate the fish.

Mistakes are meant to be learnt from and I will learn on my own, should the situation arise.

But I dont feel it will, Im not as stupid as some that reply, might think I am, I have had animals for quite a while, maybe not fish, but one way or another, all animals have their breaking point and need their own space. I know this, my dogs love to fight when one gets in the others face too long, but thats just animal nature, just the same as people.

I KNOW THIS...

As I wrote in my last reply to this thread, MY FISH ARE HAPPY, my male Betta doesnt go near the females and the females dont annoy him, they have enough room to swim around and have their own space.

The purpose of writing this thread was not for people to write back assuming the worst.

My male Betta went from being really quiet and being secluded to being active and swimming around the tank, enjoying himself. As I have read, Betta's are spose to thrive in small areas and I was just wondering why he would be so active when he should get tired a lot from all the swimming he does, but he doesnt.

Last night he kept swimming around in circles, through this one artificial plant for ages, probably hours, its amazing that he is so active, but hes a loner, he doesnt pay attention to the females, he doesnt care, he just swims past them or around them.

So, stop assuming the worst, Im not an idiot.

 

[Iggy]

I never ever said that your an idiot, I don't even imply it. You can ignor advice all you want but cut-out the bleeding heart crap - nothing on this thread is a personal attack on you. You have a total of four bettas, combined, Alexa and myself have hundreds.... hmmm... who do you might be the expert... hmmmm....

OK, the following is a post from someone else who ignored advise only to realize it was not a good idea:
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8708&highlight=bettas+killed

I am really trying to help you! Bettas moods can change suddenly. Your young male will decide one day (or night) he wants the tank all to himself and he will hunt down any competition, male or female.

Your only an idiot if you ignor sound advice, right?

 

[whiteangel]

Whats your point with that last reply Iggy, its a different circumstance.

I wasent ignorant enough to put two males in together, I research information before putting anything into practical work.

That thread had nothing to do with my situation.

What are you talking about this whole "bleeding heart crap", what drugs you on. I didnt post anything to do with bleeding heart.

Im just telling it like it is.

Besides, they're my fish and if I want them to kill each other, then thats my business, you cant do anything about it.

If everyone else fails to keep themin a tank together, then I would have to say that they are the ones that dont know what they are doing.

 

[PreciousGems]

I really don't want to argue with you, as it will only push you away from making the right decision. Do what you want with your fish, they ARE yours. So please, if you want to ignore advice from betta experts, thats fine. But don't get mad that we are helping you and your fish. What did you expect to be told about your bettas all being together? I am sorry but I try to help out those helpless fish, and I don't even know WHY you would risk their lives just to learn form a mistake, when the the whole point of sharing experiences is so you don't have to go through that.

Alexa

 

[whiteangel]

Its not a matter of waiting for them to kill each other, I know you cant put males in together, but I dont get it why you cant put females in with males, its rediculous. How else are they spose to be able to breed.

The advice that has been given doesnt come off as something nice to say to someone, it comes off as being bossy and aggressive, I am more worried about the people that reply to thread's then the temperment of the Betta's

 

[ecotank]

Originally posted by whiteangel
Its not a matter of waiting for them to kill each other, I know you cant put males in together, but I dont get it why you cant put females in with males, its rediculous. How else are they spose to be able to breed.

Betta females are added to a tank with a male betta for breeding, then are removed imediately after the fry are free swimming. This is done because otherwise the male will kill the female!

Maybe you find it rediculous, but it's the way it happens and people who know this are trying to let you know.

All these posts end the same way..."you guys were right, he finally snapped and killed all the females", sad to see it happen yet again

 

[Iggy]

Well, it seems you intend to take anything we say as a personal attack. I don't see any posts supporting your point of view, but sobeit.

Your Biography:
"Easy-going, animal lover, originally a country girl"

If the above is true, in your bio, then killing (letting them kill each other) bettas just because you feel like someone is hurting your feelings is not an option.

If you want an apology for something I posted, then I apologize.

The male/male thread I quoted was just so that you can see what often happens when you dismiss good advice. The person who posted that thread swore the males were fine together in a big tank.

If you are "just telling it like it is." - so am I. A 'bleeding heart' means quit acting so hurt. If you did not want peoples opinion then you certainly should not post a question on a forum.

It sounds like you really like bettas, so do we. Is there some other reason why you cannot take us up on our advice? I can give you instructions on how to build some tank dividers if you need.
http://www.bettastarz.com/dividedtank.htm

You can spend all your time defending your point of view, or drop your pride and defer your opinion to the experts. That is the strength of these forums, you can get in touch with expert advise from people who have reasearch and bred bettas for years.

But, don't just take our advice:
http://www.bettatalk.com/housing.htm
See: About housing female bettas - "One rule though: NEVER PUT A FEMALE WITH A MALE!!"

http://www.petco.com/assets/articles/caresheets/pdf/aqffemalebetta070703.pdf
See Compatibility - "Do not keep males and female together unless both are ready to breed;"

Now, I will admit, if you look around, some people might suggest you can keep a male and multiple females together. I don't know of a single breeder or fish store that will keep a male with females in the same tank.

I am glad your male is more active. I hope all your fish live a long time. If your girls start to show signs of constant fear (horizontal stripes) and are always hiding, then you will know it will not be long before he bites them in the gills till they die from stress or injuries.

Make sure to have some medications on hand, once the biting starts, it can easily lead to infection.

Enjoy!

 

[whiteangel]

Iggy,

If you actually payed attention to my original thread and stop making up your own stories about the advise I wanted, maybe you would get an idea.

My thread is about my male Betta's happy little mood change, not the fact of him trying to bash up my female Betta's. Betta's are known to live in small confined areas, but my Betta redefines that and just hoons around the tank, happy as a clam, thats what
I wanted to know about.

Regardless of the fact that you and who ever have been spawning Betta's since whenever, you have learnt from your own exerpience about what to do and what not to do.

You should know better then anyone that people should learn their own experiences and not rely on someone elses views on how to best to do things, otherwise you never really learn, you just presume.

Therefore, Iggy, take note of the matter in question before adding your own stories to the thread.

I dont have no bleeding heart, Im just giving you my side of the story, Im not begging for you to understand and accept the male betta being in the same tank with the female bettas.

I dont take what people are saying personally, I take it as they are not understanding what I am asking, it annoys me that they get so defensive and instead of just asdvising me I shouldnt have the Betta's in together, they practivally demand that I seperate them.

That is life, bad things happen.

 

[PreciousGems]

Actually, we have all learned from OTHERS experiences. Learning from your own experiences is outdated in this category. It is common knowledge that male bettas fight with males, and they also fight with females. Do you honestly want to find out if the male will kill your females? I know that I cringe every time a betta goes belly up, and anyone used to the death of an animal they love shouldn't be around that animal. Immunity to feel bad for the death of something you love just goes to show you that you don't really love it.

 

[whiteangel]

I have seperated them...

I didnt take your advise, I just got paranoid.

Last night I was sitting on my bed and noticed the Male Betta chasing the female Betta's around the tank flaring his gills up at them.

I wasent sure if he was actually trying to attack them or thats what they do to actually impress the females.

He wasent harming them. I noticed some bubbles up the corner of the tank, atop of the heater, where he usually hangs out on his own, so because of that I didnt know whether they had spawned and thought he may have been trying to protect the eggs or something and that may have been why he was chasing them.

I have read that the male will chase the females around the tank during spawning also, but I thought I would rather have live Betta's then dead Betta's in the event they are not having babies and he is just being aggressive.

The conditions in the tank are also not right for them to spawn, so Im not sure if it is just a false alarm.

What does this mean, have they spawned, I cant see any eggs and have done some researching about spawning, the bubles have only just come over the last day, but the male hangs around the bubbles?

 

[PreciousGems]

"I didnt take your advise, I just got paranoid."

-Whatever you say

Try shining a flashlight under the bubblenest with the rest of the lights off. You should see off-white eggs the size of salt grains.

Alexa

 

[Iggy]

It is not likely they spawned. A bubble nest is only a small part of the steps in spawning, and you can look to see if there are any small white dots (like grains of salt) suck underneath the nest.

His flaring might be to attract the female to his nest, however with multiple females, there is a real danger the male will only like one of them and attack the other ones.

Now that the female is removed. he might be a little confused ("where did they all go?") and might even sulk a little, or he might still build the nest in hopes of attracting a female in the future.

Just to clarify. I was trained 'in person' by another betta breeder. I did learn some information from my mistakes, and other mistakes I avoided by asking and taking advice. And when I am wrong, I am the first to admit it!

You are right, sometimes we (I) assume that people are asking indirect questions. I guess next time I see someone making what I believe strongly is a critical mistake, I will be more careful when I point it out, just in case theymight take it the wrong way.

Although, you are the very first one in my 500+ posts ever to make a point of it, I guess I can handle the criticism. If you say my previous post were out of line, then I guess, in your case, they must have been.

In the end, regardless, now they are seperated, you don't have to worry about this anymore.

When you are ready to breed them, I would be happy to share my knowledge and experience to help you avoid making some of the mistakes I know about.

Ps. Welcome to the Tank!

 

[whiteangel]

How do you know if your female Betta is carrying eggs

With the biggest female Betta I have, she is looking fat, unfortunately, I didnt pay a lof of attention to their appearence when I bought them home and placed them in the tank with the male Betta.

I dont know whether she is just overweight or whether she is carrying eggs, how do you tell?

She was the one that use to hang around the male Betta and steer off the other female Betta's.

Should I put that female Betta back in the tank to see if they will spawn. Will it harm her if she is carrying eggs and she's not with the male to help fertilize them?

I dont think they should be spawning, cause as I have read, they need suitable area etc, like equipment in the tank, the right temperature etc.

What do you think?

 

[Iggy]

The females do not carry eggs in their tummy like most people think. The eggs are stored further back and more in the middle section of their torso.

Like you said earlier, bettas are pig eaters, and usually will not stop eating as long a food is present. This leads to a lot of bloated tummies and sometimes to swim bladder disease.

Try skipping a few feedings, say two full days, and see if that solves it. You don't need to feed the other the girls if they are all healthy. Betta adults can safely go without food for days (weeks in the wild). A lot of breeders practice a 'skip' a day feeding, where once a week you don't feed them to allow them to slim down and digest a little.

Females always have eggs, so if she is 'egg bound' (too full) it will really show in the way she swims and her body will be more swollen in the middle (not the front so much).

For breeding setup, http://www.bettatalk.com is a good site for the equipment and process. You need a submersible heater in a good sized (10gal suggested) tank, preferably no gravel in the bottom, some live plants, a bubble filter on super slow, and a couple food cultures (baby brine shrimp eggs, microworm starter culter) to feed the fry after 4 to 6 days from hatching.

I tried to find a picture of an egg bound female betta, but no luck so far. If I find one, I will post it.

There is a bit of a proceedure to introducing a female you want to spawn with a male into the breeding tank. Usually, we keep them seperate until she shows quite a few signs of interest before releasing her. Again, the website above can give you more information.

It will not hurt her to leave her seperate. My Reena (female) was with Rigel (male) for a week in the spawning tank and she refused to mate. Rigel got pretty ragged chasing her around, but in the end, she did not want to mate with him even though she had quite a few eggs in her. Over time, she slimmed up on her own.