need help soon

[p2kmon]

I need help.  We recently moved and we lost a catfish, before the move.  About a month plus we lost a small tiger barb.  Now today I lost my hugh Pachu.  I clean the tank, and did a 25% + water change about a week ago.  The water is now clouding, the pachu was turning silver on half his body.  He was not swimming around, and was fine earlier in the day.

I have been having some problems with nitrides, but that shouldn't be killing them.  I have two filters and undergravel filters.  not sure what is going on.

I'm not sure I totally understand the nitride cycle properly.  Couldn't someone let me know again, I'm lossing a fish about 1 1/2 - every 2 months.  Any help would be appreacated, thanks...

p2kmon

 

[dattack]

First of all, can you describe what equipment you have in your tank and what size is your tank?  Also, what fishes are in your tank and what size.  You have probably answered some of your questions of why they are dying.  You stated your nitrite/nitrates are high and that alone can kill all your fish.  Given that you have a big pacu in there, I can guess that you have too much fish and bioload for your tank.  But I won't go further until I know what your exact setup is.

 

[JWright]

I'm with Dattatck, your fish are being killed by toxic levels off ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. I would also agree that you are probably overstocked.

I would reccomend you read http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html, it has an excellent description of the nitrogen cycle (at least the portion of it we're concerned about).

It would also help if you could get back to us with your exact tank size and stocking levels, along with your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels.

Josh

 

[p2kmon]

Ok, the whole deal.  I have a 55 gal tank, it had, two pachu, each about 8 inchs, had two tiger oscars(barbs) - both now dead, I have two albino orange oscars, each about 6 inchs.  I have two snails, and two pleco to help clean the tank, and a cat to clean, but he didn't make the move to the new place.

Ok, I have a 55 with undergravel, two lift tubes with powerhead on each side.  I have two power filters, one on each side.  I have a whisper 3 on one side, and a pro-aquatics 200 on the other side.  The tank is now in the kitchen area, doesn't know if that matters, they do get a little more sunlight than they used to.  I do a water drain, about 1/3 every week-every other week.  The tank will be crystal clear for weeks on end, and then over night the water gets ugly.

I feed about a table spoon of shrimp pellets in the morning about 5:45 am, along with flakes for the oscars.  and then one when I get home at night around 8:00 pm or so.  I know the take was overstocked, but that wasn't really my descion.  If you know what I mean....  But trying to keep everyone alive is getting diffucult.  My large pachu (joe) that just died, was healthy one day, the next day he was at the top of the tank, and was even swimming kinda upside down.

I've been doing some readying about the (gunK) under the undergravel could be causing problems, I don't know if this is it or what, everyone was doing so well, and now...

Sorry so long, but trying to get all the facts so that I can get any help possible.  thanks

p2kmon.   :'(

 

[p2kmon]

Ammonia is less than .5
Nitride is 5.0 - which is really high.  I was told by the fish place that the water drain will take care of that, I do it, and then about 1 - 1 1/2 later, its high again..


Other test, I'm not too sure about if I need to do
Freshwater ph is about 6.0
Freshwater high range ph is about 7.4
General Harness is at 2 dkh
and Carbonate hardness is at 4 dkh

help...

 

[JWright]

No, gunk under the gravel isn't causing your problem. Your problem is being caused by too many fish in too small a tank being fed too much (sorry, that's the honest truth).

A 55 is too small for even a pair of oscars IMO, and you're feeding way too much. Cut back on your stock and feedings.

Make sure you check out that link up above, especially the section on "cycling."

Josh

 

[p2kmon]

Yup, I figured I have too many fish, but can't help that right now.  I did clean under the gravel, and there was Tons, and I mean Tons of junk under there.  I don't have enough bacteria to take care of the waste.  

should I go to feeding once a day.  Problem is, that when I go to feed at night, the fish are going crazy, trying to get to the food.  They will even jump up out of the water, to try and get the food from my hand, mostly the orange oscars...

Can't move any fish right now, so I need to get help on keeping this tank going, now only have 5 fish and two snails for cleaning...

 

[Matt Nace]

Your correct on not having enough bacteria to house for the amount of ammonia given off by all the fish, the waste, and the decaying food.

If you dont plan on returning the fish at your LFS, you need to limit the feeding. You also need to provide a housing for your bacteria. Normally a UGF works fine, but Oscars are messy(in waste and eatting) and 2 plecoes and one pacu is still a lot for it to handle.

Oscars, because of their waste, should usually have a deeper substrate, so their waste can be dispersed through the gravel, making it easier to siphon, and less hassel on your filters sucking up any lose debris.

This is not what you want with a UGF, however(a deep substrate) When the substate is too deep or too full of waste, it limits the flow through the gravel killing off , or not providing the oxegen that bacteria needs. This is a problem with you, because of what fish you have. You need to take off some of the stain on your UGF by getting rid of some of your fish(you are not) or find another solution.

If you have some money, you could get a duel bio-wheel magnum 350 which would house a lot of bacteria that would help you(way cheaper online to get it).

A sump(providing additional water and bio balls to house bacteria) would help as well.

You really need to do more water changes(like everyday or everyother day) until you find a solution or the nitItes are in check.Make sure you Vaccum the gravel and not just drain it out.

I suggest feeding pellets to the fish, I find them less messy and easier to feed(and control in feeding)

Can ask what your plans are for these fish(bigger tank?) they will all outgrow the 55 eventually.

Hope I didn't cause any confusion.

 

[JWright]

You keep saying you have (had) snails and cats for cleaning. "Cleaning" is a misnomer, all they do is convert food (algae and/or leftover food) into ammonia.

I would cut feedings to every other day, and feed less than you are at a feeding. Fish always look hungery, don't let them fool you.

Josh

 

[ryanp15]

Okay I don't exactly know what your situation is and why you couldn't "control" the fish you got but I will make some suggestions about it. First of all these guys have pretty much covered it there's just some things I want to add as well. First of all every fish you have is to big for a 55 gallon tank. Pacu & oscars. The plecos and catfish are fine as are the snails but the others have to go. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Unless you get a bigger tank say a 200 gallon or so! And you need to remeber that oscars are the messiest eating fish there are! Well almost. And they need excellent filtration and water conditions and quite frankly you don't have that at the time because your tank is our of balance with the massive fish load you have got in there. So what I'm trying to say is get rid of your fish. There are to many. In fact none of them can go in a 55 gallon tank so the best thing to do is to return them back to the fish store or sell them. That's all I have to say. ;D

 

[p2kmon]

not quite sure what to do with the fish yet.  I don't know if the store will buy them back.  I was looking at getting a bigger tank, a 125, but turns out need like 1000+ for all the items to get it up and running.  I don't make that kinda money.

I wish the fish store would have told me about the pachu and the oscars a little bit more.  But, I got them at a petstore, that rhymes with petdumb.  A number of the staff, had no clue, the other half was very helpful, wish I would have talked to those people first.

Debating what to do, I have cut back to one feeding a day, in the mornings now, and I have cleaned half of the tank, am going to look into the some sugestions that people have given me.

Thanks,

p2kmon

 

[p2kmon]

Question, I was told by a fish (seller) person about some other things that I have never heard of.

One, I keep the light on in my tank from about 6:00 am till about 10:00 pm.  this person says that you should only keep the light on about 30 hour or so, that the fish do not like the light on.  This person thinks that this is the reason for the tank having problems with nitride and such.

Also, we were told by someone that you could feed our pachu, catfood.  That this will make them a bit more agressive, and make them grow a bit faster.  Now this person said, you should never do that because, it could hurt their digestive tract. Or cause other problems down the road.

Let me know if anyone has any info about this.  I thought you were supposted to leave the light on, but I could be mistaken, please let me know.

 

[clothahump]

I can answer one of your questions.
The lights should be on for no longer than 12 hours a day, this is average for most tropical fish.
It sounds like your friend has very little knowledge of fish keeping, lighting will not affect nitrites or any other part of the nitrogen cycle. 8)

 

[JWright]

Heh, I'm with clothahump, he doesn't have a clue.  There is no way light will affect the nitrogen cycle.

Cat food might cause you Pacu to grow faster and be more aggressive, but is that a good thing? Give your fish fish food and leave the cat food to the cats.

Josh

 

[ryanp15]

Quite frankly this person has no idea what they're talking about. Lights don't effect anything like nitrates and the fish are not effected by the light like he says. I leave mine on from 5:30 to about 9:30 or 10:00. You have your doing just fine.

And also dont cats eat fish so why would you feed your fish itself again? (j/k ;D ) I wouldn't suggest giving your fish cat food it's not something I would go around putting into my tank and personally you shouldn't either! And your pacus need to go! ;D Good luck. Yeah those big pet stores arn't the best to go to. Try and smaller store they seem to know more. ;D

 

[dattack]

Is this person working at the LFS a known comedian in the community or is he the ever, drunken, crazy uncle bob from the other side of the family?  Do your self a favor and tune him out like your ex-gf or find another local fish store.

 

[p2kmon]

Thanks for the help on the light thing.  The guys is the fish delivery person for a very well known store... Wally... ummm you know the rest.  

I told my girlfriend, that I did not think light could have anything to do with nirtates, and nitrites...  But thought I would double check.

thanks for the help...

Stopped feeding the catfish months ago, but it did seem to make them grow at a fast rate...

 

[ryanp15]

I agree with kitten get rid of all your fish and start over! This tank is really wacked up right now so if you would be so kind to your fish as to get rid of them and not put them through so much trama we would all appreciate it! ;D

Yeah I'm sure your not kitten! : I love opinionated people. They are great. ;D

 

[kitten]

what a total d*ckhead....

Of course the catfood made them grow fast! It's probably fatty as hell! You'd get much better results from natural food..bloodworms and whateva else.

Do yourself a favor and start your tank over. Talk to some professionals, and the guys here, and let them guide you through setting up a tank.

 

[dattack]

Kitten you are brass, crude and opinionated.  
That's why I love you!. hehe ;D