New AQ., How long for fish?

ThePrep95 · Apr 9, 2006

Hello, the other day I purchased a 20 gallon tank on a whim. I just wanted some fish! lol but as I learned about the hobby and the different fish it is actually quite interesting. I'm quite the animal lover and I want to do everything to make my fish happy. Anyway, a few questions and thanks in advance for any help.

I had no clue I had to wait to add fish. I was told I should wait a day, and then told I should wait a week. I understand this ammonia cycle thing, but im NOT going to wait 4 weeks to add fish. How long SHOULD I wait before buying a fish? Im not going to be keeping track of amonia levels etc., I will clean my tank whenever it needs it and feed my fish properly, I just dont want to do all that work keeping track of levels I know nothing about. So, basically, I set my tank up with a filter heater and added the chlorine killer drops lol now simply, how long must I wait for fish?

I want to get a school of tetras, can I get 4 or must I have 6 for them to school together? Also, will diff. types of tetra school together or must they be the same (head and light tetras with head and light tetras, etc. or emperor with head and light, etc.)

Thanks so much, any help will be appreciated =)

cinlnk · Apr 9, 2006

Hmmmmm What can I say?
If you NOT willing to do your homework about keeping a healthy aquarium and fish, why did you bother to buy a tank? Take it back to store and get your money back!

Masta_Cheef · Apr 9, 2006

Hello, and welcome to the tank.

Yeah, you have to wait. If you're not willing to wait in this hobby, then it probably isn't for you, at all. Have you read the stickies at the top of the thread listings? They'll teach you all you need to know, and then some.

You'll want to buy a test kit that can test for nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and pH. You can also get a bit fancier one that can test for GH and KH, but it's not necessary. Without real plants and a good understanding of the hobby, four weeks is absolutely perfect for the wait. A week won't let the bacterial cycle start up to where it needs to be to sustain any bioload.

Yes, different schools of tetras can school together, but you really should have bigger schools of one type of tetra to make them feel more secure. Six is the recommended number of fish per school, usually.

Have you heard of the "One inch-of-fish-per-gallon" rule? Some people agree with it, some don't, but basically it states that, "for each inch of fish (adult sized!!), a tank can have one gallon for each inch of said fish". It's a good way to start, but use your best judgement when it comes to larger fish like oscars, clown knives, clown loaches, and angelfish. They may start small, but they get enormous. You can't keep an oscar in a 10. I hope this helps, but PLEASE, be PATIENT! This hobby takes time. You will eventually get used to the waiting, and it makes it much more satisfying to know that you've done the job right, instead of doing the job ASAP.

TLM4x4 · Apr 9, 2006

Hi there and welcome to the tank! If you put fish in your tank without properly preparing it for the tank to process the waste it will KILL all of your fish. Now, I highly doubt you want that, correct? The ONLY way you can stock a tank as you are wanting to is to add BioSpira to it first, then you can fully stock the tank. This way the good bacteria in the tank will process the waste and wont KILL all of the fish! Read the stickies at the top of the beginner freshwater forum because if you dont, you will NOT be successful...your time, your money and your effort will be a waste.

ThePrep95 · Apr 9, 2006

6 tetra=12 inches, help me pick the other 8 inches =)

Thanks for the wonderful responces! (well all but one)

OK, tell me where am I going wrong here, I got a tank with the filter and heater and they gave me amquel, which says on it, removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and chlorine. That's not enough? I'm bringing back a water sample to the pet store next week, and if they say it's good to go, im getting my fish, obviously. If they say wait, I'll wait longer. But if the dam pet store didn't tell me to check numbers, then I think I'll get by.

Thanks for the info on tetras schooling, I couldn't find that anywhere. The rest I have seen as I have done some research on this the past few days, obviously much more to learn.

However, I must disagree with "return the tank" guy who seems to think you either do this 200% or not at all. I will be cleaning my fish tank every 2-4 weeks 25%, I will feed them properly and not overfeed, I will replace the filter on time, but to me it seems keeping track of all these levels in the tank is very tedious, and I KNOW FOR A FACT not everyone who owns fish checks those numbers, and I have had fish when I was young that lived years and they didn't even have a filter!! So don't give me the all your time will be a waste and all your fish will die story, unless fish have become huge sissys since I was young lol I will use the inch of fish per gallon (I'm thinking 6 tetra, any ideas for 8 more inches of fish? I would like a nice variety if possible or 2 cool 4 inchers, somethin like that)

... weight and introduce my fish slowly ( Should I introduce 6 tetras at once or in 2s or 3s?) ... if after all this one of the little guys cant pull his weight, well I will find someone who can! haha Im very excited about this and although I may never be a "serious" fish owner (I'm getting just a 20 gallon for my room, I don't plan on getting a bigger tank) but I will be successful, and I will be here to show it to you! =)

Oh, and on my amquest plus it says 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons, so when I clean do I add half a teaspoon when I refill with 25% fresh water?

dogdoc · Apr 10, 2006

No cinlnk, I don't think your post was wrong. Blunt, yes. But you didn't say anything that a lot of us have not thought. Like I said, I yell at my monitor a lot.

I was just trying to clarify without scaring the poor guy/girl off. But I know exactly how you feel. I capped on somebody a little while ago, for essentially the same type of thread, and felt guilty afterward. So now, I try to take a deep breath before typing. (After yelling and cursing my monitor.)

ThePrep95 · Apr 10, 2006

*********MY RESPONCE, FOR SOME REASON IT IS PLACING IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POSTS!!!************************

4/10 1:50PM

Sorry if I came off the wrong way, I certainly do not want my fish to have an unhappy life. Honestly I had no idea all the info that is available on this hobby, but I still fail to understand ONE thing: If I get 2 cories and wait a month before adding any other fish, and I clean the tank every other day or so, why would I need the test kit? Isn't the test kit basically to tell you, do another cleaning? If I'm cleaning it everyday why would I need a test kit?

If I don't overcrowd my tank and I don't overfeed my fish and I clean the tank each day until the tank is established, wouldn't this be sufficent to make for happy fish? =) I will purchase a test kit, but I wouldnt know what to do with the results!

Last night, I spoke with a girl who had worked at a petstore, and she told me you should only clean once a month 25% because overdoing it is actually what kills the fish, is this true?

Thank you guys for all the help!! I think I will go get 2 cories today and all my tank cleaning equip. I am certainly more prepared now thanks to everyones advice, even my friend in the post before me!! HAHA thanks to you as well

Seleya · Apr 10, 2006

ThePrep95 said:

LOL, now now, Prep, I think she and others have explained her response.

ThePrep95 said:

Amquel is a good water conditioner but it isn't a cure all. I mostly use Prime but also like Amquel+.

When it gets right down to it let me give you two simple facts --

1. the water will test fine this time and the person reading it will be telling the truth about this this time for the simple reason that there is nothing in the water to make it test poorly (i.e., pooing fishies)

2. it is in the pet store's best interests to tell you what you want to hear, especially if it will lead to further sales (replacement fish and snake oil treatments for when your fish start succumbing -- Cycle, pH Up, pH Down, StressZyme........)

ThePrep95 said:

That planned regimen is unlikely to be sufficient, especially during the cycling phase. There's a big difference between surviving and thriving. In all likelihood, there will be little of the former and none of the latter with your planned maintenance schedule. Everyone has apocryphal stories of how fish survived horrific conditions when they were young -- in only a few cases is that the truth (memory can be a tricky thing) I'm not trying to be argumentative, just saying.....

It is true, not everyone takes proper care of their fish and they somehow live -- life isn't that cheap to me and, since you're trying to do research to do it right, neither does it seem to be for you. If you really catch the bug you'll discover two other fishkeeping truisms --

1. sometimes you simply don't know who is right until you see it for yourself.

2. MOST people who choose to buy a tank and refuse to properly maintain it, end up selling their tanks to those of us who do (usually amazingly cheaply)

ThePrep95 said:

If you're going to cycle the tank "fish-in" only add them a couple at a time, WAIT a couple of weeks, TEST the water for toxic build-ups, and do regular water changes. It sounds like a lot of work and it can be if you choose but it can also be quite easy to maintain a single 20 gallon tank. I have 10 tanks in my house, a vat full of pond fish in the basement and a pond outside -- the fish don't rule my life but, as an animal lover and concientious pet owner, they do receive proper, regular care.

ThePrep95 said:

Yup!

YahooFishKeeper · Apr 10, 2006

you shouldnt rely on chemicals to get rid or ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. the less chemicals the better. the fish store will try to sell you everything!!! thay just want your money. MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!! thats whats on their minds. whatch out for the "you have to have aquarium salt!" thing. im sure they will try it on you. if they tell you your levels are fine, ask them what they are. most just look at the pretty colors, and say, "sure they're fine!" then you will pick out a ****load of fish, and take them home, and they'll die. when you go back, they will tell you to buy this chemical "X" and buy more fish, and dont forget your aquarium salt! your fish will die without it! they lived in the wild without it for millions of years, but they sure need it now!

Intravenous · Apr 10, 2006

Okay, maybe you think cinInk was being a bit harsh in what he was saying but I think what he meant was: even if all your fish don't die because of the conditions you put them through it doesn't mean they will be happy or comfortable. I mean how would you like to live in a swimming pool that you had to eat your food in, pee in and poo in and only have it cleaned out every 2-4 weeks? It wouldn't kill you but it sure would be horrible and cruel.

Sure fish might not feel or think as much as we do, but they still do suffer from mistreatment and if you don't care about that then that makes you a cruel person and you deserve all the harsh responses you get.

If you do actually care then like everyone else advised you should read the stickies at the top of the forum about cycling.

If you just wait a few weeks without doing anything then nothing will happen and it will be a waste of your time. You can either go through the cycling process which involves adding ammonia to your tank and watching your levels. Or you can add a very small number of fish, let them cycle the tank and do regular water changes (like several time a week, not a month).

Once your tank has fully cycled doing readings isnt too important as long as you do regular water changes (weekly) and don't over stock your tank but it is very important to do readings in the first month or so as your tank is cycling.

Sorry if you think my post is mean, I'm not trying to nag but I, like most of the people on here, don't want to see your fish being mistreated.

PlecoCollector · Apr 10, 2006

Can you get your hands on some Bio-Spira? That'll help you with your cycle and you can put fish in close to immediatly.

homebunnyj · Apr 10, 2006

If you're not willing to test your water, you will not know that your fish are about to die and thus will not have a chance to save them. When they do die, you won't know why, then you'll put more fish in and kill them from the same cause. Why flush money down the toilet? Testing is ultra easy, it saves fish (thus also money), it will keep you from giving up the hobby in frustration, and all of us are more than willing to help you learn.
If you listen to your local fish store personnel, you have an extremely high probability of failure. Listen to experienced aquarists and have a great aquarium. It is entirely up to you.

CAPSLOCK · Apr 10, 2006

If you've got the aquarium all set up (heater, filter, dechlorinated, etc.), and you are set on not doing a fishless cycle, you can add A FEW fish immediately. In a 20g, you can cycle with 2-3 tetras and they'd probably be fine. Get only 2-3 fish, and keep them as the only fish in the tank for about a month (or until you can get the lfs to say that both the ammonia and nitrites are zero) before you get any more fish. Then add fish very slowly (no more than 2-3 every two weeks or so). Do water changes at LEAST once or twice a week while you're still cycling it (ie, for the first month or so). After that your tank will be more stable and you won't need to clean so often.

It really isn't too hard to get and understand test kits... all you're looking for is how high the numbers are... it's not rocket science.

Salty Fishes · Apr 10, 2006

If you want instant gratification, please find and buy some Bio-Spira.

It is possible to just throw fish in a tank, never check the water parameters, and let them fend for themselves against the ravages of ammonia/nitrite/even nitrate poisoning, but if you call yourself an animal lover, why would you want to do that? Your fish will be much happier and healthier, as well as more active and beautiful, if you go about this properly. Testing your water using a kit only takes a minute or two of your time, and it can help you find problems quickly before they get out of control. If you get Bio-Spira, add it to the tank, and then add ALL of your fish immediately, or in less than 24 hours.

Amquel is only meant to remove the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate ion your tap water, not the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate produced by your fish. (Ammonia is produced by dechlorinators if your tap water contains chloramines. The chloramine is broken down into "safe" forms of chlorine and ammonia by the dechlorinator, so the amquel removes the amount of ammonia that may be added to your tank by this.)

If you get Bio-Spira, you do not need to wait at all to get fish.

As for the other fish in your tank, I'd suggest some small bottom-feeders, mainly, corys. Check them out, there's a lot of different species, and they're all adorable.

Plus, they'll eat any leftover food that drops to the bottom of your tank, therefore, helping with the clean-up. I'd say you could probably get away with about four small corys. They like to be in groups of their own kind, like tetras. It'd be much better for you to get four of the same corys and six of the same tetras, IMO. If you wanted something sort of different, you could look into shrimp. Ghost shrimp are small, don't produce hardly any waste, and are pretty common/cheap. You could add a handful to your tank along with the tetras and corys.

dogdoc · Apr 10, 2006

My advice FWIW, spend the next several days reading the info on this board. Cycling, nitrogen cycle, fish compatibility etc. are all very important to know and understand. There's a lot of good info here, and a lot of good people who are willing to help.

When I first set up a tank, I test daily until the cycle is complete. Sometimes twice a day. Is it tedious? Maybe. Myself, I kinda like it. I also lack the patience to fishless cycle a tank. But I have comitted myself to doing the necessary maintenance routine to keep my fish healthy. If that means I have to change water twice a day, I do it.

On my tanks right now, here's my schedule.

10g.....30-40% water change at least twice a week. Sometimes I'll throw in a third just for good measure.

16g......33% water change at least twice a week. Again sometimes gets extra if I think it needs it

75g planted.....50% water change every 7 days. This tank is easier in terms of water changes etc. because the plants help out with the bio-filtration.

Cinlnk's response may have seemed harsh to you but it is pretty spot on. Forgive her if her response was blunt. I just yell at my monitor. Those who have been around the boards a while have seen posts like this before. Here's how the scenario plays out.

Someone comes on as a total newbie, asking for advice. It is given, and rejected by said new person as too much work etc. Or even better "Joe Bob at Pets-R-Us says...." They invariably overstock, and are back in a few days with an urgent message. "Help, all my fish are dying, what did I do wrong".

As sad as it is to say it. Some fish stores are more concerned with their bottom line, than the health of your fish. Do your research, and you will quickly figure out what the B.S. is.

cinlnk · Apr 10, 2006

*thumbsups My point EXACTLY, Dogdoc! Is wrong of me to tell people just how it is? IE: Blunt,Abrupt etc....
Prep 95,
My concern is that you bought a tank and emphasized the word "NOT" in meaning... that you didn't want to do any testing and such. Having a healthy aquarium WILL require testing and cycling the water. It is not a hobby for people that just want a "pretty tank" just to look at. It does take alot of work,research and TIME. Alot of people on this forum learned the hard way, myself included. When I first started out in fishkeeping, I went FULL THROTTLE. I setup my tank,added fish and GUESS WHAT? I needlessly killed those poor fish because of my stupidity. I just don't want to see it happen to you. Is that bad of me to be so blunt?...
Anyhow, welcome to the tank and I hope you"caught my drift"... and Good Luck!
There are alot smarter people on this board that know alot more about fishkeeping than I. But, I think they would agree with me, as to not rush into anything when it comes to setting up a new tank. Patience is the key.
Good Luck,
Cindy

Kay · Apr 10, 2006

This reminds me of watching Monster House and they put a saltwater tank together in a day :| I wonder how long the fish lasted after the reveal

cinlnk · Apr 10, 2006

I hear ya Kay.... I remember on one show of "Extreme Makeover, Home Edition" They did the same thing. But I am sure they had "professionals" to take care of that. They always seem to cover all the bases.

Kay · Apr 10, 2006

lol I know I was quick to jump the gun on my tank and I'm not going to add any more fish from what I've learned now, especially from this site. In the act of trying to save a fish and a shark from a friend I set up my tank to quickly. If you have a heart, dont make them suffer.

Karma.

Rootdok · Apr 10, 2006

When you replace water when you have fish in the tank, do you put a treatment in it?

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