Just because someone has been in fish selling for some time doesn't mean nothing. The guy in my town freaking blows. His place is so nasty and he sells what he can and for what he can. His family had it 3 generation. Also don't come on to a forum and ask for something and not like your opinions or answers given. If you want to bs go somewhere else.
New cichlid tank
- Thread starter mx22
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I am not sure if you are referring to me, in this post and in your previous one about irresponsibility. But, your remarks are very disrespectful and a little bit hotheaded... Orion didnt you mention something about personal attacks in a post or 2 before SK's remarks about selfishness and so forth. I believe what you are saying is the same thing as rick except that you and the moderator obviously are good ole pals....
Again, what exactly is irresponsible about keeping a fish in a fish tank in which it can dart around, hide, and interact with other fish. If you find my tank to be too small of a tank, than I would like to take your reasoning and put it back on you. In reality, your tank will never give the fish it holds the free reign that wildlife will give. So you are selfish and irresponsible, what you need to do SK is go to central and south america or Africa and return your cichlids to their natural habitat, this way they can do what they were meant to. I mean honestly If I thought the fish were cramped and ill or hurting in any way, I would make a change, I am not selfish or irresponsible so you should watch what you say to people, you come off sounding like a you know what.
Also I bought the oscar when he was like 3 inches big, so I assume he was at the store a few months or less, I have had him for 6-7 months, I find it extremely hard to believe, in fact impossible, that he will grow 8 inches or more in the next 3 months, which would imply full growth in a year. I am not trying to play devils advocate, but like rick said, there isnt one way or logic to housing fish people!
I think that about wraps this debate up, and btw I pity your fish they probably cant stand the smug air in your house
Again, what exactly is irresponsible about keeping a fish in a fish tank in which it can dart around, hide, and interact with other fish. If you find my tank to be too small of a tank, than I would like to take your reasoning and put it back on you. In reality, your tank will never give the fish it holds the free reign that wildlife will give. So you are selfish and irresponsible, what you need to do SK is go to central and south america or Africa and return your cichlids to their natural habitat, this way they can do what they were meant to. I mean honestly If I thought the fish were cramped and ill or hurting in any way, I would make a change, I am not selfish or irresponsible so you should watch what you say to people, you come off sounding like a you know what.
Also I bought the oscar when he was like 3 inches big, so I assume he was at the store a few months or less, I have had him for 6-7 months, I find it extremely hard to believe, in fact impossible, that he will grow 8 inches or more in the next 3 months, which would imply full growth in a year. I am not trying to play devils advocate, but like rick said, there isnt one way or logic to housing fish people!
I think that about wraps this debate up, and btw I pity your fish they probably cant stand the smug air in your house
Okay let's start with talking about African Cichlids and Mbuna. These fish are beautiful and quite colorful, okay sweet! this is what you guys want to put in a tank.
The first objection is 40Gs is too small. Okay why is it too small? Well 40Gs will not carry the bioload very well for a group of mbuna. The tank may be able to hold a few, but when you have only a few they will be aggressive toward each other, and you may find them constantly hiding and hard to see. Oh yeah make sure you put lots of cover in the tank such as rocks, caves, etc. As mentioned the cheap cavs from petsmart wont do it. You would be best to build your own caves and hiding places by strategically placing rocks in the tank.
Why a 55G or >>> ??? Well the more space you have, the more room for error you have. With the Mbuna, or the african cichlids you particularly want, fishkeepers tend to OVERSTOCK their tanks to keep the aggression down. I believe someone explained how overstocking the tank keeps all the fish distracted from just 1 fish in particular, lowering aggression levels, which is correct. However, it is much easier to compensate and monitor a large tank that is overstocked, than a small tank that is overstocked, do you follow? If you slip up with 14 fish in a 30-40G, they may all end up dead and you've wasted time and money. If you have a 75G with 20fish you may get away with forgetting to change the water for a week, etc.
So conclusion:
Even though these cichlids do not grow > 6-8 inches, they are quite territorial and usually active fish. They do best in large groups, which is why they should be in a bigger tank, to be in larger groups. I am sorry this may not be the information you want to hear, but this forum has dedicated and knowledgable fishkeepers. We simply do not care about what looks "cool", nor are we trying to sell you anything. We also do not like giving bad advice, which although once in a while it works out (a lot of new posters giving poor advice), it is generally wrong, and we do not like to promote that.
I'd recommend getting a swimming pool sized tank, or small lake/pond built, lets say 4 acres of land, hollow it out, and then you can put half a dozen goldfish in it. That way the fish will have adequate room. If not there is the possibility that they may find the wall of the tank and get angry that they are caged, dont offend the fish. Do weekly water changes with a water slide sized filtering system... and read bedtime stories to the fish every night as well. But dont get any fish that grow over 2 inches because then u'd need to purchase a a few hundred acres in order to build a small sea to house them, might be a lot of work.. The fish must be able to swim at top speed in a straight line for 6 hours without hitting the edge of a tank, if not then they are not in a big enough area... hope that helps!
Like others have said, you can do South American cichlids. German Rams and Bolivian Rams are great. I have both of them. I've seen Apistos and they look very nice, I don't have any, but would like to one day.
If you already got the electric yellows, I don't know that they'd coexist very well when they mature. I've never tried to keep africans and south americans, but have heard they typically don't get along. Do let us know what you decide!
I'd like to be a fish in that sized tank. The sarcasm isn't really necessary though, just let it go, simple enough.
If you already got the electric yellows, I don't know that they'd coexist very well when they mature. I've never tried to keep africans and south americans, but have heard they typically don't get along. Do let us know what you decide!
I'd like to be a fish in that sized tank. The sarcasm isn't really necessary though, just let it go, simple enough.
I agree def. let it go..but i must say i agree with SinisterKisses on the issue. I have had 8 cichlids which have all grown to full length. However I too started all of them in a 29 gallon and would never have even thought about allowing them to reach full size in this tank. When they reached maybe 3/4th the full size thet were removed.....battered and fried giving them much more room to swim freely. I also must add that it is quite hard to take advice from someone who puts soo much effort in covering up the truth with make-up. It only leads one to believe that the stories about the fish are fabricated, made-up and truly disgusting as well. Anyone who feeds a fish regularly and takes care of them regulalry is doing a great thing for wildlife. Anyone who disagrees or calls people teenie weenie fish are probably fat or ugly it just makes sense for that to be the case.
Haha, very interesting forums..... I am new to the site, I am currently a PHD student at USF, we have been working very extensively with cichlids for the past 2 years. Several students and a local wildlife panel have been researching the effect of environmental limitations on fish.
We have found very interesting results which should be made public in the next 6 months or so when everything is finalized, basically we set out to find the effects of constraining environments on different types of fish subgroups, it just so happens my team has been focused on a broad range of cichlid samplings.
Anyway, I just wanted to share that contrary to what most of you believe, a 29 gallon tank, I believe thats what you all were referring too, will not hinder the life stages or health of such fish. We specifically studied the tiger oscar because it was a bigger fish. These fish especially have a very high tolerance for such conditions. I hate to break it to you all but keeping a group of fish like this in a 29 gallon tank will not negatively effect the fish at all, this is coming from 2 years of direct research! Any negative feelings one may have on small aquarium sizes is purely ones taste and has no empirical findings attached...
Bottom line dont assume you know what animals want and dont want, just because we would all love a bigger place to live doesnt mean the fish care at all!!!! As long as the water quality and nutrition is adequate the fish will function the same. Sorry to flaw your arguments all.
Look for the department of USF marine biology publication in the next several months we are hoping to get published in a number of journals and are crossing fingers for the Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology!!
We have found very interesting results which should be made public in the next 6 months or so when everything is finalized, basically we set out to find the effects of constraining environments on different types of fish subgroups, it just so happens my team has been focused on a broad range of cichlid samplings.
Anyway, I just wanted to share that contrary to what most of you believe, a 29 gallon tank, I believe thats what you all were referring too, will not hinder the life stages or health of such fish. We specifically studied the tiger oscar because it was a bigger fish. These fish especially have a very high tolerance for such conditions. I hate to break it to you all but keeping a group of fish like this in a 29 gallon tank will not negatively effect the fish at all, this is coming from 2 years of direct research! Any negative feelings one may have on small aquarium sizes is purely ones taste and has no empirical findings attached...
Bottom line dont assume you know what animals want and dont want, just because we would all love a bigger place to live doesnt mean the fish care at all!!!! As long as the water quality and nutrition is adequate the fish will function the same. Sorry to flaw your arguments all.
Look for the department of USF marine biology publication in the next several months we are hoping to get published in a number of journals and are crossing fingers for the Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology!!
while all of this may be true, keeping an oscar in a 29g (especially with any other fish) increases the bioload extremely. unless the owner of the tank is going to do changes once, maybe twice a week then its a huge problem....
i know, because i maintained a 7 inch oscar, 4 inch jack dempsey and a 3 inch cichlid in a 29g tank...the nitrate level was basically toxic every 3 days.
Absolutely, as mentioned before and as was controlled during our research, the water quality has to be maintained. I was just giving insight to the debate about the "humanity" surrounding the idea of adequate tank sizes and habitat......
...were you over-feeding these fish? what type of filtering system do you use? 3 days for nitrate toxicity even in a 29 gallon tank with three fish seems extremely high....
...were you over-feeding these fish? what type of filtering system do you use? 3 days for nitrate toxicity even in a 29 gallon tank with three fish seems extremely high....
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