pH buffering

[Onyx!]

Now I know that people say that pH isn't that important and that a stable pH is better than trying to maintain any specific pH. However the water where I live has a very low pH, less than 5 coming out of the tap. I was using pH up until a friend who is fish-savvy told me that that is basically useless. She recommended that I buffer with baking soda, which is what I'm doing now. However, I have a conundrum every time I change the water. Should I add more baking soda? If so how much? Is it even worth bothering trying to test using a pH test kit?

I'd just like to see if anyone else has thoughts on the use of buffers, or hear from anyone else who is keeping livebearers/bettas/gouramis/corys in very low pH water

 

[bassbonediva]

The easiest way to raise your pH is by adding shells (crushed or whole) to your tank, or by using crushed coral in your substrate. A lot of people that have too soft of water for African cichlids do this (especially the crushed coral). I'm not sure how they continue to buffer the pH during water changes, however.

As for using baking soda...I've heard of that method, but since I have hard water (with a high pH...8.2 out of the tap), I have never tried it. You would have to add the baking soda to your new water each time you did a water change to avoid pH shock. I am not sure how much, but I would think adding some and then testing with a pH test kit, then repeating the process until you get the desired pH, would be the best way (at least at first...after you've done it a couple of times, you'll know how much you need to add).

What does your LFS do about the soft water/low pH? Do they buffer it at all? It might be worth looking in to. If they don't mess with the water, I'd say that you wouldn't have to because the fish you get would already be adjusted to the low pH.

 

[Onyx!]

I'm not actually sure what the local petsmart does, only that whenever I go there all the fish except the cichlids are either dead or dying. It's hard to even GET fish because you have to root through the tanks and try to find something that looks like it might survive once you get it home. I hate buying anything from them, but Petsmart is the only pet store within walking distance, and I don't drive. I should probably try checking out the water next time I bring something home and see what it tests at.

 

[aakaakaak]

Good grief. You need to get someone to drive you to a better store. If your petsmart is a fish holocaust you need to not support them. You'll probably get bad answers from people who kill their own fish too.

 

[Onyx!]

I know >_> I feel bad, I know I shouldn't be supporting them. They have such a huge problem and seem to not care in the slightest about fixing it. All I know is that they get their shipment on Friday and sell off most of the new fish on Saturday or Sunday before their tanks can kill them. By Wednesday the tanks are mostly barren of all non-cichlid life - whatever didn't get sold off on the weekend is mostly dead by then except a few hardy things like silver dollars that I'm not interested in.

And you're right, they have not given me very good advice. They told me that a pair of zebra danios was fine, but then I found out they are supposed to be in a school of 5 or more. And when I picked up my gourami, they had a small tank full of them, so I asked if they needed to have other fish of their kind, or if I could get just one. The girl told me that you could keep several together, but that one would also be OK on its own x_x I'm just glad I decided to just get one to start, then add more later. I can imagine the holocaust in my own tank if I'd brought home three male dwarf gouramis thinking they could co-exist in my 16 gallon tank.

 

[bassbonediva]

Good for you for doing your research before adding incompatible fish to your tank (like the three male DGs...EEP!). Most people don't and then forums like this have to fix the messes the LFSs make by giving incorrect stocking advise.

 

[Newman]

Ok since this is about pH and having acidic pH, alkaline fish should be limited or not even used. youll save money that way. sounds like your water would be better for acidic fish.

Have you tested the water's KH and GH? those are also important. get liquid kits for both if you want to understand your water better. you can do the baking soda thing to your water change water in your mixing bucket before you add the water to the tank. be sure to always use water dechlor and never wash anything in your tank with tap water, always use tank water.

you need to experiment with your tap water and the baking soda until you find the dosage required to get a stable pH of around 6-7pH. that range should be most affordable for you. then alwyas use that dosage for your tap water before you put it into your tank. also mix the water well, thats why a mixing bucket is necessary (with a powerhead or something to move the water around)

 

[Onyx!]

No, I have not been able to find a freshwater KH test. Even the saltwater tests only come in an expensive package with other saltwater tests that are not useful to me.

I guess the thing I am unsure of with the baking soda is how fast the buffering action works. If it takes some time to change the pH of the water then just adding it to the replacement water, testing and then dumping it in won't work well because the pH may continue to change after I add it to the tank.

 

[Newman]

thats why you mix the water in a mixing bucket overnight. it should be mixed well enough by morning and you could do the WC on that next day.
Testing is key to get your soda per gallon dosage dialed in correctly.
API makes good KH and GH test kits.


what kind of fish are you wanting to keep in your tank and what is available at your petstore of choice? Is there any way you could order fish online?

 

[OrangeCones]

Off topic, but I would KILL for your tap water parameters, Onyx!

 

[FroggyFox]

I like where Newman was going. I think as long as you don't have a water softener on the house that is messing with your tap water, I would stick with your water and find some fish that are more compatible with your water chemistry, rather than messing with your water chemistry. There are quite a few reputable online fish dealers...might be an avenue to check out for you.

 

[aakaakaak]

Apistogramma (generalized as pretty much all South American) cichlids would probably work great in your tank.

Here's a good write-up to read over:
Cichlids - Apistogramma

The German Blue Rams come in that list of fish you can have.

 

[bassbonediva]

Good call, aakaakaak! I would maybe suggest Bolivian rams over GBRs, just because of the GBRs' sensitivity to water parameters. I think a lot of the tetras like softer water as well, don't they?

 

[aakaakaak]

Congo tetras, yes......daaaaang, he gets all the cool fish...

 

[Newman]

alkaline fish are cool too -_-

 

[aakaakaak]

Yeah, yeah, all the tankakaylalalalala fish that people freak out about over breeding purity. (Just teasin')

 

[Onyx!]

@ OrangeCones ORLY. Would that be for fish-related reasons or just because it's nice to have soft water? :

Unfortunately I'm not much into cichlids. I already have a pretty much fully stocked tank actually, I have livebearers, a couple cory cats, a couple zebra danios (which I would not have got if I'd known they were supposed to be in larger schools, but that's petsmart's advice for you), a female betta and a dwarf gourami. Everyone seems to be doing fine, even the guppy fry, but of course I want to make sure that everything stays fine, including my plants. The wisteria is doing its usual mass explosion thing and the other plants seem to be holding their own at least, so far.

 

[OrangeCones]

@ OrangeCones ORLY. Would that be for fish-related reasons or just because it's nice to have soft water?

Fish and plant-related It is far easier to make water harder than get it softer. Naturally soft water is what the plants and the fish I like prefer, and I live in an area where the pH is in the 9s normally. Mixing RO water with tap water is a pain in the hiney!

 

[aakaakaak]

Onyx, if all your fish are already doing just fine in your water don't change it. For fish, change is bad.

 

[Onyx!]

Well, the problem is that I still have to do water changes. So I need to figure out the best way of keeping the pH from fluctuating too much when I do the weekly water change. I've been using "pH up" to the new water I add, but then discovered that the pH was going right back down again once the original baking soda I had added to the tank when I set it up was all used up, whether I added "pH up" to the new water or not :/