ph question and more

[Orion]

To have a community cichlid tank and have no fighting is darn near impossible. They are cichlids, they're going to fight and biker among themselves at least a little. Not a big deal. Its when fish start to show up very baddly beaten or dead that it becomes a serious problem, and sometimes by then, its too late to take much action. Its best to know the species you are getting to know what you are getting into before you even populate the tank.

As for population control, some fish like the julies are very good fry theives and can help to some degree. You can also intervine yourself and manualy remove the fry to what ever you want to do with them.

A species tank is also an option. But being your first venture into Tanganyikan cichlids, you may quickly find yourself wanting more, and more and end up with more and more tanks to keep them in. (not that I speak from experence on this or anything )

 

[janlo]

Yes. Having fry is another factor for me to be interested in keeping cichilds. They seem to be good parents and seeing their behavior seems interesting, especially the mouthbreeders. But i didnt know that they could take over a tank by their fry. i already had babies from my regular fishes, but they ended up in the filter or eaten. Only few survived.

so....
Leulepi+Brichardi+Julie = is it ok?

tell me if you guys have other combinations that could work...

as for other tanks, i'm already dreaming of having more to practice my aquascaping with plants. Now if i add cichlids into that i should end up in a desintoxication therapy soon.

 

[Orion]

I have my reservations with all three in a tank that size. All come from the same niche in the wild, and competition will be very high for teritories. It could work with the proper setup, but being new, you may not to take a chance like that untill you feel a little more comfortable with them, and have some first hand knowledge of how they are going to act and react to each other and other stimuli.

You seem pretty set on the leleupi. So those and either the brichardi, or a julie species. Like I said, loose one of the rock dwellers. Have you given up on the Cyps? The altolamprologines you may find attractive. 'Comps' and Calvus are spectacular looking cichlids IMHO. I belive the males will top out at around 5-6 inches, and females smaller. Both species are available in several color morphs. White Calvus are on my list, and as soon as my midnights mature, I'm ordering some. (have a little set back for just the occasion)

I have never kept any of the Telmatochromis, but they are sometimes available at LFS, and could also be a viable fish for you.

 

[janlo]

thanx orion

yes they are selling calvus (black morph if im correct) at my lfs.
I know they are nor really agressive, but can they live in a planted tank? i never found out yet.
well... i think ill go to the library to see if there is a cichild book that i could borrow...keeping the investigation!

 

[Orion]

From what I've read and seen from other peoples tanks, calvus would be fine in a planted tank as long as they had a little somewhere to call there own.

They are also rather shy when young and first introduced into a tank. Sometimes tanking a few weeks to get used to everything and feel comfortable out in the open.

 

[TaffyFish]

janlo - you can research on the Lake Tanganyika Species forum on www.cichlid-forum.com, there are literally hundreds of threads on the subject of those very popular species. As for books, Enjoying Cichlids 2Ed, edited by Konings is excellent and the best by far is Tanganyika Cichlids in their Natural Environment, again by Konings, both titles from the Cichlid Press. The first title will tell you more about keeping cichlids in aquaria, the second will tell you how the fish behave in the wild.
As for fighting, well I kind of agree with Orion only there's a difference between territorial aggression and actual fighting. Certainly you can expect Tanganyikans to behave territorially but it is certainly possible to mix species in the same tank without it resulting in fighting. The trick is to get the species mix right, also provide enough and correct types of territory, start out with with juveniles, avoid singletons with breeding pairs, etc etc. If it were easy there'd be no challenge!

From my experience, I would only recommend species tanks for brichardi-complex species, that would be spectacular in your 53g planted set up. You could try brichardi, leleupi and julies but you should recognise that territorial disputes and aggression, even deaths, are a possibility unless you get it right and depending on the character of the fish you buy. The mix of calvus, leleupi and julies would be far better - add 6 juvies of the leleupi and julies and allow them to pair off, try to get at least 2-3" calvus though, either a sexed pair or 1m 2f. All 3 species will dig when nesting, so long as you provide the right kind of rockwork at the substrate level they will not disturb or damage your planting - one of my julies takes nibbles out of newer anubias leaves though.

 

[Orion]

I forgot to address your question on how they can take over a tank.

All cichlids show some degree of parental care. This allows more of their spawn to survive and gives them a better shot at adult hood. Fish from the aforementioned brichardi-complex also allows earlier broods to help take care and protect newer fry. Again, this helps more survive. So in an enclosed enviornment, those fry who do survive will stay with the parents to help protect younger siblings, and so on and so on. Quickly will there numbers grow to the point that nothing else in the tank could stand up to there shear numbers of the species doing nothing more than protecting and defending an ever growing teritory.

Hope this helps some in understanding why. Not the best description. Basicly it just comes down to because they are good parents.

But it is fairly simple to control the population some. Introducing a fish that will preditate on the fry, or manualy removing some of the fry yourself are a few good ways to do so.

 

[janlo]

ok thanx

went to the library they had nothing on cichlids. Only beginners manual on general freshwater fishes.

But yeah TattyFish , i 'm already going to cichlid-forums, it has been so far my best source of info.
I'm not against the idea of a one specie tank, since it looks more natural and creates a certain unity in the tank.

But if i want a community: leulepi+ julie+calvus ( or another like leptosa), right? can i put some shelldwellers, or they will be too small?
also , are those fishes all eat the same food? i think they are all carnivore/omnivore, right? I understand that i need to have fishes that are eating the same food.

and Orion thanx for the info. When i was at my LFS and looking at the planted tank with brichardi pair, they had fry all over the place. Verry interesting. Its a shame that those species are not mouthbreeders though, cause i really like that behavior.

 

[Orion]

Well, if mouthbrooding is your thing then you may be pleased to know that the Cyps are a mouthbrooding species. Generaly speaking, most fish from Tanganyika are cave/open water spawners, and Malawi are mouthbrooders. This is only generaly speaking. There are always exceptions to every rule, and Cyps being one of them. There is another popular mouthbrooder from Tanganyika, but the species escapes me at the moment.

Looks like florite or other plant gravel. Is that about right? If you want shellies, sand is the best for them. What I have done is create a sand bed in one area of my tank for them. Often times if they move large gravel for long periods of time, their mouths will become deformed, so having a small area of sand helps aliviate this problem. This lets me keep my florite, and everyone is happy. If you did want to go with shellies, I would suggest a larger species like the occies or brevis. Occies may be your best bet depending on the other tankmates you settle on. Also I have often heard that the altos, comps and calvus, will eat shell dwellers. But I have heard from many more sources that this is'nt so. The biggest factor is if the alto's are wild caught or not. Wild caughts are more likley to do so. Speaking of alto's and shelldwellers, have you looked any into the Altolamprologus sp. "Compressiceps Shell" aka Sumbu Dwarf? This is a larger shell dweller, but you may find it more to your liking.

And you are right that all of the above named fish are either carnivore or omnivore. Feed a high protine food, with a treat of spirulina a few times a week and you should keep all of them happy.

 

[janlo]

yah its pure normal gravel
Before adding the fishes i'm planning on redoing my aquascaping and to add light colored sand or fine gravel in the front... It will take a lot of time and work though but its part of the game. I just need time and motivation. It'll take this time to think about the future population mix in my tank.

 

[TaffyFish]

Tattyfish!!?? LOL! Learn some respect J-LO!!

Leleupi and the smaller shell dwellers like multies and occies are not a recommended mix. Assuming your 53 is 4ft long and at least 15" high then yes, a shoal of any of the non-jumbo cyprichromis leptosoma would be very suitable for your tank.
I think you could do julies, calvus, cyps and one species of shelly or the same with leleupi instead of the shellies. I would recommend the shellies instead of the leleupi for a more interesting tank with no dietary conflicts either. You will get the substrate moved around though.

For other Tanganyikan mouthbrooders, see frontosa/gibberosa, tropheus, the goby cichlids (eretmodus, tanganicodus, spathodus), sandsifters like xenotilapia - none of these are suitable for your tank/community.

 

[Orion]

I thought that the leleupi were omnivores. I belived that the only extra suplement that they needed was carotene(?) to enhance the orange color. Have I been wrong on this?

And I would say that 'Tattyfish' was most likley a type-o.

 

[janlo]

hmm sorry about that. I dont even know what tatty is, my first language is french so... it wasnt planified!

And Now you ruined my plans with leulepi, with their diet!

 

[TaffyFish]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, there's not a conflict with the leleupi diet either - that wasn't planified!

I would recommend the shellies instead of the leleupi for a more interesting tank. There are no dietary conflicts either way.

Not all leleupi are orange, there are many regional colour morphs.

 

[janlo]

why would they be more interesting than Leulepi?

 

[Orion]

IMO, one of the most endearing traits of the shellies is that they are a small fish, with a big fish attitude.

I don't meen that they will hunt down and hurt or pick on another fish, far from it. I'll use my Neolamprologus brevis as an example. I have a 4in SAE in the same tank, and when the SAE gets too close for comfort the male has no problems chasing a fish twice its own size away. The same goes for my hand. Just about any time I have tried to do any redecorating near the shells, the male will come up and bite my hand! The little fella just doesn't back down from anything! However, I also have some small julies in the tank too, and even though the brevis will chase them, no harm has ever come to them.

My multies are not quite as boisterous as the brevis are, but you will still see them bickering at teritorial lines with each other often.

 

[janlo]

ok nice , i ll look for more info about them

 

[janlo]

So i finally reacquascaped my whole tank...

One last view of my old design .. snif...

Tomorow ill post the final picture, the water is really cloudy right now, the sand is verry messy.

Almost ready for the fishes....

 

[Orion]

OH man. What a job, you've certianly been busy! LOL. I don't think I'll ever have to guts to totaly tare down my planted tank and redo it. I just modify it as I go ever so slightly.

First thing, more rocks. Rocks are important because they allow to create teritories for the fish. You have a great start from the looks of it. Large, round rocks will simulate the look of Lake Tanganyika, but your fish will appriciate any rock formations.

Looks like the new tank is going to turn out awesome! I love the look so far. Can't wait to see it once it clears up some. Share some of the detail with us. Are you going to continue to inject Co2?

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Ok i havn't really been involved in this thread but, wow....i LOVE the After shot even with cloudy water! I seriously wish i had the aquascaping talent like that lol. Your mix of rocks and driftwood look great and cannot WAIT to see it all cleared up and stocked!