Recommendation on Apisto breeding setup

[depthC]

I plan to get myself a pair or two of apistogramma cactuoides. My question is what is a good setup for breeding?

As of now i plan to use a 45g tall. It will be bare bottom with one Lustar hydrosponge 3 filter(which is rated for a 40g, i think) and a second nature whisper powerfilter 3 for good measure.

Then I would like to put lots and lots of spawning medium in the tank. Modified terra cotta pots, driftwood, rocks, java moss, and whatever else i think of. I wanna clutter the space with plenty of objects so i can house 2 pairs of apistos with minimal incidents. The tanks dimensions are 36"L x 12"W x 24"H. Will this be ample to house two pairs peacefully?

Thanks for any suggestions and please share with me your breeding setups also. I dont think i remember anyone on MFT being interested/experienced with apistos so i guess this thread will tell me if there are any.

.dc

 

[Desi]

HEy why is it so important to have a bare bottom tank for breeding?

Also; have you had any luck sexing the apistos? I thought I had purchased a male/female duo only to find one terrorizing the other; so I finally had to seperate them.

 

[depthC]

Its not entirely important to have a bare bottom tank for breeding but in doing so it makes my job much easier. With a bare bottom i can easily see any organic matter that may cause a spike in water conditions so daily I can siphon out all the uneaten fish food and wastes. Doing this ensures that water quality is great.

I havent actually ordered them yet. I had planned to order them today but decided not to because i wanted to get the tank setup, ready, and established before i purchased them.

What kind of apistos do you have? They still could be a pair but in a small tank either the male or female can terrorize each other to breed and cause death.

.dc

 

[Desi]

well thank you depthC for your insight. Really; I was not aware of the benefits of a bare bottom tank. I suppose that it is ESSENTIAL to have VERY CLEAN water in order to breed; which a bare-bottom tank facilitates IF you syphon regularly.

I suppose my heavily planted 65gal will never give preferable breeding conditions. I only get to syphon it once or twice a week and there is always some ammount of bio-leftover all the time.

I have cacatoides. The McMaster is pretty but I haven't been able to find any at my lfs. You can check my signature to see where I have the two apistos set up.

BTW do u own any other cichlids; aside for the angels I've had and these apistos; I'm fairly new to the cichlid world. Just got my 65gal converted to house lake malawi cichlids; with livebearers for dither.

One last question for ya depthC; is ordering online a reliable way to get sexed couples? Also is it safe? I live in Montreal; you're telling me some dude delivering from Houston or San Fran can get my fish to me safely?

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Yes BB tanks are mostly for water quality....pretty much solely for water quality lol.

Sounds good depth, just make lots of hiding places, should be fine for 2 pairs.

Where are you getting them from?

 

[depthC]

desi - dont get the wrong idea. Planted tanks are great and create perfect breeding conditions. The plants take up nitrate so the water quality in planted tanks can be great also.

Since you got cactuoides if you have a pair they will probably breed for you if given some clay pots/caves to spawn in. They are claimed to be the easier apisto to spawn and will do so in higher pH water than there more picky cousins.

Besides the angelfish ive got 2 kribs thats it for cichlids. I plan on ordering my apistos next saturday on aquabid if i win the bid from apistodave.

desi- yes its safe and you just have to trust the person to give you a pair. This particlar person i plan on getting them from has over 300 positive comments on aquabid so I trust him. And if ordered express overnight they should be just fine with less than 24hrs of transportation.

.dc

 

[depthC]

Alright well yesterday I tried making a notch in two of my clay pots and well it didnt go to well. Heh, well i cracked off a large piece from both pots. Then I broke that piece into two pieces i picked the one that could be siliconed back on the pot with a decent opening.

Then today i went out and got a co**** cave also. I got two more clay pots to make even more caves. Ill attach a image of the two clay pot caves and co**** cave.

I also placed an order for a breeding cave and a breeding egg from www.cichlidbreeding.com

So in total i should have 5 clay pot caves, 2 ordered online, a pvc pipe(dunno if thats a cave but im keeping the options open), a plastic log, plastic cave, and the coconut cave. That equals 11 possible caves, anyone else think i need a few more?

Uhm so yeah ill attach that pic so you can see the clay pots.

.dc

 

[MrMup04]

Caves lookse awesome, good luck on spawning your new apistos.

 

[Desi]

what do you think of holley rocks instead of caves? As good; not nearly? terrible?

 

[depthC]

I wouldnt know what to tell you desi. Im sure holey rocks would work just fine as long as they act as a cave for the fish to spawn in.

Thanks for the compliments.

.dc

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Looks good to me. It'll serve the purpose right?

I can't help but notice how happy Bob looks back there

 

[wayne]

I had substrate in all my apisto spawning tanks, and I think I spawned nine different species including cacatuoides. I preferred a fine gravel. There are some reaasons for this. For a start, as substrate dwellers they tend to be all too nervous to breed if there's no substrate. Also, when they've bred, they female will typically move them from place to place hopping the group above the substrate. Substrate also provides some filtration medium.
I always went for the 'dirty' tank approach as I was too lazy to raise much infusoria, and I always found a very 'natural ' looking tank would provide most of the microorganisms the fry feed on at an early stage. One of my worries with your setup is that a 3 foot bare bottom tank will make it hard to feed the fry. When you start feeding them brine nauplii you willl find they disperse too rapidly in this setp and the fry won't get to them.
Lots of cover is good. In the natural enviroment of most apistos there are no caves, but they spawn under leaves, bits of wood and so on, and they seem to take well to caves and flowerpots very well. My most productive cacatuoides always spawned in the holes in lava rock, and my eunotus notable on the underside of driftwood only.
I would not have two pairs in a 3 foot. I would have a single pair, or more, maybe 2 males, 4 or 6 females. I would be very tempted to put some tetras in there to act as dithers, else the apistos can be very nervous. I always used cardinals, but now I tihnk it would be cool to experiment with some more unusual stuff like Copella species, splashing tetras
David Soares is an excellent source of fish, and very reputable. Note that he used to , and may still, feed his fish entirely on live foods, so getting them to eat flake or whatever might be a hassle. Ask him for advice, and what he does for breeding as he really is one of the top breeders.

Please don't keep apistos with malawis - they will have a very short, miserable life.

 

[depthC]

Yeah while looking at the setup tank i thought about feeding and the tank is quiet deep (2ft high). This is a bit of a disadvantage, but it would be a perfect breeding tank for angelfish . But that route isnt one im willing to take at the moment, apistos are my mind set. So i thought up and idea of how to get the food down to fish. Using air tubing and some weights at one end.

So honestly this setup could be challenging and not to great but if things dont work out right i have a empty thriving 10 gallon planted tank which i could put them in to try breeding in their. And if either gets too aggresive the only other option would be to put them into my 45g planted. Whatever the case/problem i should have it figured out.

wayne - thanks for the info. greatly appreciated.
c-man - yep bob is looking good and fits right in the picture

.dc

 

[mike the zealot]

I can also recommend Dave Soares. He lives in the next town over from me here in Central Oregon. I've purchased A. cacatuoides from him, as well as this male A. agassizi:

http://www.zealotron.com/animals/800x600/Apistogramma_agassizi_01.jpg

top notch

 

[depthC]

Yep great looking fish mike.

Well a little looking here and there and i found a closer source for apistos. Ray McCaleb has a nicely setup sight for easy ordering so forget that aquabid bidding process ill just order off of ray as he is located in Georgia which is much closer than Dave and still a reputable source of apistos. Check out his site its very nice to say the least.

Well judging by the time its taken for my recent orders to get here, over 4 days ago, i think i may just wait until the first of the year to order the apistos. Even if i pay for the overnight delevery, do you think they will make it in time? Lol man i hate the slow shipping holiday season.

Also I changed my breeding setup as of last night. I went out and bought some pool filter sand and put it in the tank and it looks ALOT better than that barebottom deal. Ill post pictures later on when the last of the 'dust' settles down.

.dc

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Whoa! Ray has some nice fish! Let me know how your order goes, i might have to put in one for the new year.

Is pool filter sand finer than reg. sand? What about color compared to say....playsand.

 

[depthC]

I find it a ton better than any playsand. I was originally looking for silica sand but this sand is just as good. Its a light tan colored sand and has almost no impure particles. Its all one tone unlike playsand which seems to have dark particles here and there. Its also very fine and not as grainy as play sand. I like it much better and love the look, its gunna be perfect for the apistos. It wasnt expensive either just $6 for a bag *.5 cu. ft.). I picked up two bags and go figure I only needed one. This stuff is real nice though Ill post pics later.

Well yeah Ray does have some very nice quality fish. I figure Ill order a pair of triple reds with an additional triple red female to make it 2 females/1 male. And nope that isnt cheap, lol, approximately $22.50 per fish adding in the heft shipping and handling price. When I do order Ill be sure to let everyone here on MFT know the quality of these fish, which i assume will be great.

.dc

 

[Lotus]

I'm not sure I'd risk having fish caught up in the holiday delivery chaos. Even with overnight, there's more of a risk due to the volume of packages and the number of temp employees (think about fish being drop-kicked onto a van). I know USPS stuff is taking a lot longer than normal.

It might be better to wait until the new year for a faster and safer delivery of your fish.

 

[wayne]

You'll find that works much better than barebottom. You should have no problems.
I was going to recommend trying something oter than cacatuoides but looking at Rays site I would agree, go for them. I found bitaeniata hard work as a blackwater fish, and I also hated the fuss of making low pH water for them. I would like some malbruter - I've never seen them

 

[depthC]

Yeah i like the look much better also. Here is the tank as of today.

http://dcaqua.t35.com/images/45g_apisto_12_16_04_640x480.jpg

Im not sure if i can wait untill after christmas, its killing me im anxious to get me a few of these guys. AHH, what should i do, lol, patients isnt one of my strong points.

.dc