sick tetra

[hazee]

Hi,

I've had a 20g and a 55g no problems so far.

I got my daughter a 10g 3 cory's, 1 female betta, 2 dwarf frogs and just yesterday added 5 tetras ( penguin )

The problem:

- one of the tetras died today.
- ammonia was just slightly showing
- nitrites were thru the roof

The tank has been cloudy for a few days. I changed approx 25% yesterday. I changed about 20-25% when i tested the nitrite's and they were so high. When the change didn't bring it down a whole bunch i decided it was better to move everyone over to the 20g which was showing zero ammonia/nitrite.

Everyone looks good except one tetra. It's not schooling anymore, is losing some of it's color and hanging close to the top of the water.

Question 1

Is there anything i can do for this poor little guy? I added a tiny pinch of aquarium salt to the 20g as i read it can help them deal with the nitrite.

Question 2

Why wouldn't i have high ammonia levels with the high nitrite levels in the 10g?

Question 3

It has been very hot and all my tanks are heating up except for the 55g. It's staying around 82 degrees. The others all get progressively hotter the smaller they get with the 5.5g being at 90 degrees. ( 5 guppies/2 dwarf frogs)

What do you guys do about this in the summer months? So far i've turned off the lights in the 10 g. The 20g and 55g are still within safe limits i think.

 

[Lotus]

Welcome to MFT.

1. You've done about the best you can do for him. Now all you can do is hope he recovers. He probably has nitrite poisoning.

2. The bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite multiply faster than those that convert nitrite to nitrate, so it takes longer for the nitrite levels to go down.

3. You can keep the lights off most of the time if you don't have live plants, which will keep the temperature down. You can also direct a fan across the surface of the water and leave the lid open for some evaporation/cooling. Generally keeping the rooms cooler by closing drapes/blinds might help, too.

 

[hazee]

Thank you so much for your reply. I can't see the sick fish anymore so i'm assuming he died? but at least i know i have done all i can for the others for now.

 

[hazee]

Well the remaining 3 tetras look good. The 2 frogs, the betta and the 3 catfish are good too. The cory's lucked out as i decided to put them in my 55g with my 11 other cory catfish and leave them there rather than chase them around to catch them again and put them back in the 10g when it's healthy.

It is so weird how a fish can die in a basically closed environment like a tank and completely disappear like it was never there. Bit like socks in a dryer..

 

[FroggyFox]

Ya know...the socks in the dryer comparison is perfect!! Although generally I think you turn up whats left at a water change somewhere down the road.

I agree with what Lotus said...and also just wanted to point out that white cloudyness in a new tank is definitely normal. Water changes usually wont help that...BUT water changes to help your remaining fish through the cycling process are probably necessary.

You can also really help this tank out by seeding it using material from your other tanks. Seeding means to transfer some of that beneficial bacteria from existing filters. What kind of filters do you have on all 3 tanks?

 

[Balance]

one thing you can do to keep temps down is to take some soda bottles and fill them with water and freeze em.
then toss em in the tank like big tank ice cubes

ive done this to my 75G tank when we've had some nasty hot weather

just make sure the bottles aren't leaking or busted, dont want to contaminate the tank water....

 

[hazee]

FroggyFox

I'm really new at this so i'm not sure if you mean the brand and type of filter or if you mean what filter is actually in the filter?

Balance

Thanx great idea. I've got all my tanks around 80 now.

Well... i've lost two guppies in the 5.5g tank and looks like it will be 2 penguin tetras in the 20g tank by the end of tonight. ((

I'm not real good at seeing anything dying and especially not suffering, not even bugs. So i'm getting really cranky over losing 3 maybe 4 fish in 24hrs. It's bad enough finding them dead but to watch this one dying is horrible.

 

[hazee]

I just tested the 20g to be certain it's okay. It's the tank i've had the longest and the only time i lost fish in it was when someone at the pet store told me i could have clown loaches with my neons and cory's and they would take care of my snail problem. As unappealing as the idea was to me i did it because the snail population was totally out of control and i couldn't pick them out fast enough and throw them in our snail tank. Yes we have a little 1 or 2 gallon snail tank so i don't have to kill them.

Over the next few weeks i lost two neons and a catfish. A different person at the fish store told me loaches love neons... I took the clown loaches back immediately and didn't lose anyone again after that. That is until my initial success with the 20g over about 6mos caused me to go from one tank to four in a week.

Anyway, the 20g is zero for ammonia and nitrites. So i'm assuming it's either nitrite poisoning from the 10g tank with off the scale nitrite levels or one of the 3 new tetras i bought today was sick. I'm not running out to replace anyone till i get everything under control this time.

I replaced a guppie yesterday in the 10g and had another one die today. It was one of the old ones for sure. Ammonia was zero and nitrite was very close to zero. So i guess it was sick or stressed or something?

I'm going to be keeping a very close eye on my 55g. I suspect i got overanxious with it and put more fish in than i should have for how long it's been running. There are lots of plants though, some from the old established tank along with some drift wood from the old tank. I'm hoping this helps with the bacteria. If i lose any of the fish in my 55g i'm going to freak as they came from the 20g and i've had them around for awhile.

Omg my dying tetra is still struggling to survive. I can't believe it's been this long. Surely freezing can't be as bad as what it's going through in the tank could it?

 

[discus4everGrl]

you could also take some of the gravel from your 20 and add it to the 10 to get some good bacteria in there. Not that it's going to help you out now, but neons are not good fish to cycle any tank because they don't tolerate the ammonia and nitrites at all. Hmmmm, if you have nothing in your 10 gallon you might have a hard time cycling it. Guppies are not a good choice either until it has completely cycled. Out of all your fish I would say that your cories are prolly gonna be the most durable. I have had the same two cories in my 55 forever and then I moved them to a 5 gallon to cycle and I didn't lose them. But yeah, I would seed the 10 with either gravel from the 20 or a piece of the filter pad from the 20 and try to get it next to the new pad in the 10, however never remove the whole pad at one time from the 20 or that system will crash.

 

[FroggyFox]

I was asking what type(s) of filters you have...do you have undergravel filters, (Plate under the gravel powered by an air pump and airstones), a HOB filter that hangs on the back? Reason I asked was that the best way to transfer good bacteria is to transfer it from filter to filter...so if your filter is the gravel (UGF) then transferring gravel will help most. If you have HOB filters...best would be to squeeze the filter from the established tank into the filter from the tank that needs the bacteria.

Also...I wouldn't "replace" any fish that die. If you have stressful conditions in the tank, adding new fish with possibly new diseases from the LFS is NOT smart, it'll add stress and who knows what else that your fish can't handle right now. Wait until everything settles down with the tank, you have everything cycled and safe for fish before you add more.

 

[hazee]

Thanx guys. Before i say anything about the filters i'd just like to say i am in a huge mess. Omg talk about newbie stupidity. Here i have a perfectly good 20g tank. No fish died except for when the clown loaches were added. No more clown loaches = no more dead fish. When setting up my first tank I did exactly what the guys in the fish store told me to do plus what i'd read in books... and imagine it actually working... dohhhhhh!!

Then i think i get this brilliant idea that the laws of physics or biology in this case no longer apply to me and i can just start throwing up tanks all over the place and not lose any fish... double dohhhhhh!!

No more fish for me till i get this all sorted out as you mentioned FF. Unfortunately not only did a total of 6 fish have to die because of my stupidity but our favorite little guy we've had since we started all this was found dead this morning. He was a little bent neon runt. His spine looked like a tight letter S and he was tiny. He was our little baby and i killed him off. The nitrite levels in the 55g were at least .3 and possibly getting closer to .8. I would imagine he couldn't take as much as the other fish in the tank.

Thank G*d the cory's are hardy because we have two of the original julii cory's in the 55g and i'll freak if one dies. I wouldn't be too happy if one of the other cory's were to die either.

So... now... i'd go to the books but at least one of the books i've got told me to do something i no longer think is good. The fish store has also done the same although they have given me lots of good advice also. And besides i'm in a panic now and just want to run this by you guys...

55g

I've done about a 20% water change. Ammonia is zero. Nitrites between .3 and .8 before water change. I have an air pump in there(supposedly for a 10g cause i didn't want too many bubbles and currents), a CO2 cannister and a whisper hanging filter. Is there any point to testing the nitrite again now?

I've added 10-15ml of aqua plus conditioner, 10ml of cycle and 5ml iron enriched plant fertilizer. I've got 14 cory's, 7 neons, male betta and 3 flying foxes with quite a few plants, probably ten or so.

Is there anything else i can do to get the nitrite down more or to get it to cycle quicker other than taking some filter material from the 20g? I can't see moving all these fish to the 20g like the others. Although i'd do just about anything not to lose more fish i guess.

 

[FroggyFox]

Well the good news is that you will learn SO MUCH about water chemistry and your fishes in the next month or so You have a great collection of tanks!

No point in testing your nitrite again right now...its not going to change much from day to day...you're really only interested in getting 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrites...

Aside from keeping up with your water changes (to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down for your fish) there isn't a WHOLE lot you can do. Seeding from the 20 will help for sure. The other thing you can do is throw some money at the tanks. Check out our sponsors... www.aquariumplants.com sells a product called biospira. Your LFS might carry it....and there are other places online that sell it. Its a refrigerated product that contains live bacteria cultures. Its meant to be used when you first set up a tank...so it wont be an instant cure all for you, but it would certainly speed things up.

The other product you might try if you dont want to spring for biospira is you might try a product called stabilize. I've never used it...I've read some articles on it that people here have showed me, and I think I heard one person say that it did something good for them...but most products that claim to cycle your tank quickly that aren't refrigerated (like Cycle or anything with the word "ZYME" In it haha) dont do much of anything. I HAVE tried a couple of them and haven't seen any results.

Good luck! Keep us posted

 

[hazee]

Thanx Froggy. Dunno what i would do without the feedback.

Well the good news is that you will learn SO MUCH about water chemistry and your fishes in the next month or so You have a great collection of tanks!

Hope so... I sure won't be taking any chances ever again.

I dunked the 20g filter in the 55g a few times and cut a couple little bits off it and left them in there. I'm not even thinking about the 10g for now. I'll check on the 5g today but i'm not feeling very hopeful for the guppies. I don't want to put them in one of the other tanks as one has a male betta and the other has two female bettas. I'm thinking they wouldn't like the guppies much. Let me know if you think it would be better for the guppies to risk taking on the bettas. I've also got 2 dwarf frogs in the 5g. Are they tough?

 

[discus4everGrl]

Well one thing I wouldn't do is dump alot of chemicals in a tank trying to speed it up. Cycle won't do anything and some people actually believe that too many fix alls dumped in a tank may actually hamper cycling.

Another thing I wouldn't do is constantly shuffle the fish from tank to tank if they are stressing, cause moving them will surely stress them even more. Be patient and keep an air stone going.

 

[discus4everGrl]

by the way - When I say fix alls that excludes bio-spira. Some people have had great luck with that but it's most beneficial when used at the very beginning when fish are added.

 

[FroggyFox]

I dont think I'd put the guppies with the bettas...just leave everyone where they are now and hope for the best. You want to test every day or every other day and keep up with your water changes for sure. You dont want to change a LOT of water very often...but a little bit often is ok. You could go with 10% every other day...or 20% every three days....or 10% every day....just dont change too much too often or it'll stress them out (and with all those tanks it could be VERY time consuming).

 

[hazee]

Okay thx D4Egirl. That would make sense.

I have 4 healthy appearing penguin tetras left in the 20g. One is obviously sick like the others only he's calmly dying unlike the one last night that was bashing and bumping all over the place. This one though, his eyes are all swollen out. Sorta like.. i dunno.. like there's fluid under one layer and it's bulging out. Is this the nitrite or some other disease or could it be one of the bettas picking on it? I don't remember the others looking like this. I have noticed the one betta taking jabs at the sick one though. Hopefullly it was just cause he was in her corner.

This is really upsetting seeing this fish like this. Bad enough seeing the other one going crazy and now this one with the eyes.

Do fish stores carry stuff to euthanize fish with?

 

[hazee]

Thanx FF. That was one of my other questions i'd been thinking about and forgot to ask. I am in school ( mostly corrspondence ) and i don't work. So i have the time to do whatever is needed luckily.

I'm seriously thinking i need to get something to euthanize these fish with if/when any more get sick just in case. I read freezing is horrible. I don't drink so i don't have any alcohol. Or would you just let them be?

Man this is bad... now i'm crying...

 

[hazee]

You know those goldfish with the big buggy eyes... well that is what this penguin tetra looks like.

 

[Lotus]

Pop-eye (eyes bulging) on fish isn't usually deadly. It can be a sign of a bacterial infection, but can also be caused by poor water conditions. A few days in a well cycled tank should help.

Supposedly clove oil is the best way to euthanize fish, if you have to do it. There's instructions here: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/EuthanizingFish.html