Simple (maybe stupid!) SW Newbie Question

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MatthewLaw

Large Fish
#1
Jun 29, 2008
490
0
0
PA
#1
I would like to start my first SW tank (DUH!!).

I would like to get a 30g tank. My first question is, do I definitely need a sump? I am starting the tank for SW puffers and not (necessarily) for live coral.

I assume the filtration would be provided by the protein skimmer. If that is the case, is there any point in ALSO getting a cannister filter?

Thanks for the help. -Matt
 

zoalover34

zoalover34

Superstar Fish
#2
Jun 5, 2006
1,269
2
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43
Kent, OH
#2
No you don't NEED a sump, they are nice however to hide equipment and for the extra water volume.. The main filtration would come from your Live Rock but the skimmer will do alot also.. I wouldn't not get a cannister filter.. I would chcek the minium gallons puffers are supposed to be in before you get em.. Not sure what size tank they need as i never had any but be sure they will be ok in a 30g..
 

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MatthewLaw

Large Fish
#3
Jun 29, 2008
490
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PA
#3
Thanks for your help!

Is their a point in only having a more than adequate skimmer or only a more than adequate cannister filter? I assume this would fall into the more filtration is better situation?

Also, how do you cycle a SW tank? Cycle as FW and THEN turn it into marine?? thanks!
 

zoalover34

zoalover34

Superstar Fish
#6
Jun 5, 2006
1,269
2
0
43
Kent, OH
#6
You want to shoot for at least 1lb/gal more would be better but the minium would be 1/1.. If you have the money get the biggest skimmer you can afford so when you upgrade you won't have to buy another skimmer!
 

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vipers

Small Fish
#8
Jul 28, 2008
36
0
0
#8
it really depend on how quickly you want to establish your tank whether or not to spend the added money to get live sand... it helps to cycle the tank quicker with live sand..
 

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MatthewLaw

Large Fish
#9
Jun 29, 2008
490
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PA
#9
I am in no rush to have the tank cycled...just want to do it right the first time (or at least increase my chances so it is done right the first time)

For order of installation.

1. fill tank with water and add salt (to 1.020 SG)
2. install/plug in protein skimmer
3. add live rock
4. can ALL this be done in an afternoon or should I wait some time before putting the live rock into the aquarium??

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!
 

Lorna

Lorna

Elite Fish
#10
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#10
First, welcome to MFT and the salty side of life:

In order and importance

1. set up the tank in your permanent location. Add your substrate and don't worry about paying extra for live sand as it will all be live soon regardless. Live sand is just sand that has bacteria already in it and most you see in the lfs is not worth the extra money. Find a local reefer and beg a few cups of sand from them and add this to your sand after every thing is set up and running.

2. Mix your water and salt in a large garbage can such as a rubbermaid brute etc. and mix to an sg of 1.023 to 1.025, fill with good ro/di water not tap water, if you do not have access to an ro/di system you can buy water in jugs at the grocery or from Culligans etc. Tap water often has high phosphates that can lead to algae blooms later on down the road. Once this water has mixed for a few hours you can transfer this to the main display. To reduce the dust storm place a kitchen dinner plate on the sand and pour the water in slowly it will be very very cloudy for a few days but believe me it will settle down after a week. You want that dust in there as it gives more areas for bacteria to populate

3. Add your live rock at the rate of approx 1-2lbs per gallon. Try and get cured live rock but if you can't you can cure the rock in the main display.

4. add your powerheads for water movement to turn over about 20x volume per hour. Add your heater and set the temp to about 76-78 degrees.

5. The live rock should jump start your cycle, monitor for ammonia, nitrite then nitrates....you will need something to supply an ammonia source and the die off the rock should do this. If you use fully cured live rock you may only get a small short cycle. The live rock bacteria will also help settle your sand as the particles become populated with beneficial bacteria and this will weight them down and help them settle quicker.

6. After all your parameters measure zero for ammonia, nitrite etc you will be able to add a clean up crew which will help maintain the sand bed and rocks, eat detritus and basically help maintain your tank. You cuc should consist of a variety of snails such as nassarius, ceriths, astreas, nerite, turbos etc. a good mix of these is good to have as each type has it's own area of specialty.

7. You could add a protein skimmer, it is not essential in at tank that size if you are totally committed to doing water changes weekly as a fish only tank can handle higher nitrates than a reef would. I agree with Jim though if you are going to spend money on a skimmer get the absolute best you can afford as this is something that you will want when you upgrade and believe me you will be wanting to upgrade in the future once the bug bites.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress...... :)
 

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MatthewLaw

Large Fish
#11
Jun 29, 2008
490
0
0
PA
#11
THanks a million for all the help and for your very thorough response.

I purchased the 29g tank today and next need to pick out a stand.

Assuming I have the funds, should I perform steps 1-4 in a very short period of time? Or can I do step by step as the fund become available?

Regarding the live sand issue. I can purchase 'pool sand', clean it very well, and then add some LIVE SAND, as it will spread through all the sand and essentially all the sand will become live, correct?

Regarding the live rock, is it bad if I only purchase 10lbs (as opposed to say 30lbs) or will the less than 1 lb per 1 gallon just result in a longer wait time for cycling?

Is it important to add the power heads while the tank is cycling? Or can I add it when i ready for fish that enjoy this 'wave'?

THanks again!!
 

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vipers

Small Fish
#12
Jul 28, 2008
36
0
0
#12
you can take your time setting up the tank...the reason for so much rock isnt the cycle time, its mainly that live rock holds benefical bacteria, and for it to thoroughly clean your tank, you need to have enough of it to do its job, so not to overwhelm it....so you dont get ammonia and nitrite spikes.....10lbs. is a start, just make sure not to put much in your tank until you get more rock....

in my 150 gal, i had 80lbs at first, then added 40lbs later down the road, then another 40lbs. i just had to make sure the rock was cured before putting it in my tank.... so you can add rock later, just be careful to make sure its cured, so you dont get a buch of die-off and start a cycle over again

i have no clue on the sand question... lol
 

Last edited:
Fishmonger70

Fishmonger70

Large Fish
#14
Feb 25, 2008
342
0
0
Savage, MN
#14
I would just use aragonite and skip the live sand. Your sand will be live in no time at all after you pur the live rock in. Yes, you want to have your powerheads in anbd running while your tank is cycling. If you have any lighting, keep it off during the cycling process. Be patient and take your time. I started my 75 gal back in July and it's still not quite ready for fish/coral yet.
 

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MatthewLaw

Large Fish
#15
Jun 29, 2008
490
0
0
PA
#15
thanks for the advice. from what i have been reading here, it sounds like getting the tank set up and within appropriate parameters (temp, SG, etc) are necessary BEFORE introducing the live rock.

i am worried that if I bought it all at once, the live rock would be sitting in a bag for about 5 hours (between drive and THEN install other items) and would die; as opposed to buying live rock once the tank was otherwise set up.
 

Fishmonger70

Fishmonger70

Large Fish
#17
Feb 25, 2008
342
0
0
Savage, MN
#17
1. Set up tank and stand
2. Add Water (leave room for live rock)
3. Turn on powerheads
4. Add Salt and allow to mix for sevearl hours.
5 Check temp and SG to ensure they are within desired parameters.
6. Add washed substrate and turn off your powerheads. Will take several days to a week to clear up. Turn powerheads back on.
7. Add live rock after water clears.
8. Sit back and wait. check parameters every couple days (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) Don't worry if pH is off at this time, it should adjust to within normal range when your cycle is done. Your cycle is over when both amonnia and nitrite are at zero. Nitrate will be elevated
9. After amonnia and nitrate stay at zero for three days, do a water change. This will help lower your nitrates.
10. You can now add your clean up crew. Brown algae(Diatoms) may be present on substrate, rock and glass at this time. Your CUC will help with this and will go away on its own. Keeping lights off will help.

Please note that cycling times will vary depending on your Live Rock. Times may vary from as little as a week, to as much as a month or more if you use uncured rock.
 

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Lorna

Lorna

Elite Fish
#18
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#18
Sorry I need to make some recommendations and clarifications:

You should not use pool sand. It is usually silicate based and not aragonite based and is believed to lead to diatoms later on....not sure how correct this is but why tempt it? Many have used play sand and had no problems but I am not so sure I would. You do not need live sand.....just get aragonite if you can

You should not wash the sand prior....the dust that goes in really is beneficial and will help provide more surface area later. It will settle and it will settle faster if you add your rock.

This is where I have a different opinion.....purchase your live rock and get as much as you can right away.....place the live rock directly on the bottom or on egg crate....make sure it is stable.....place your sand around the rock to help stabilize your aquascape. If you place the rock on the sand later and sand burrowing can create a rock fall later. You can keep the live rock out of the water for hours as long as it is kept damp. Most shippers ship live rock in damp newspaper. You will have some die off of algae etc. but this will help with your cycle providing the ammonia source you need.

Another thing, you are measuring for ammonia to turn to NITRITE not nitrate. These two parameters should measure zero for a number of days at this time you will be cycled and can add a cuc.

If you are cycling your tank and curing live rock silmutaneously you may want to do water changes through the cycle to keep the ammonia spike reduced to preserve as much life as possible (not bacterial life but any sponges/tunicates corals etc) that may be alive in the rock.

I hope this clarifies things a bit.

this is a great web resource for all things marine

Wetwebmedia, Aquarium, Pond, Marine and Freshwater Fish, reef tanks, and Aquatics Information
 

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