tips - advice on re-modelling my tank.

[HEADIN]

Im after ideas or tips for re-modelling my tank.
My tank I think is a 30 gal. 125 litres, its 4’ x 1’ x 1’

Ideally I would like to have the real plants etc all set up nicely but at the minute with funds etc it isn’t really an option, and am looking into a bigger tank at some stage in the near future when I move house but until such time I would like to get my tank sitting as best as possible.

I’ve just been adding to it décor wise as I go to accommodate my little critters.
I’ve attached a pic or 2 of how it looks at the minute.

I’ll list what I have décor wise and stock wise.

Décor - good sized bit of driftwood that I’ve just purchased that I want to put in.
- 2 coconut halfs for caves all cut and ready to put in
- Few plastic plants (should I keep them all together or split them up? I am looking to add a few more aswell for cover)
- A little decorative castle that my 2 clown loaches hog the life out off. You can always see their tales going through the windows but my kribs are also trying to move into it aswell.
- A small boat then full of holes that 1 of my sharks enjoys.
- A small barrel/log thing that they enjoy aswell.
- You may notice a small cave that I put together aswell using a few stones etc from the garden, it gets used quite often aswell by all to hide in now and again.
- Also a few other small décor items you might notice from the pics.
- I have 2 fluval filters aswell in my tank, a 2+ and a 3+. Both in at the minute until my 3+ gets fully up to speed and cycled, then I need new sponges for my 2+ as its quite old.. they currently sit side by side on the left hand side, where would be best for positioning on these? at opposite corners maybe so that the currents flow into each other?
-
Stock - 2 rainbow sharks
- 1 pleco 6” – not sure on specifics – just looks like your average
- 5 small inch or less zebra danios – I think 2 are full of eggs
- 7 red platys – 2 of which look like marbles and are continuing to get fatter
- 4 beacon tetras I think they are.
- 6 black skirt tetras
- 2 blue gouramis – 3”
- 2 sailfin mollies male + female
- 2 bettas male + female
- 2 tinfoil barbs – small at the minute 2”
- 2 small clown loaches inch and a half each
- 2 v small leopard cory’s just purchased half inch each
- 2 kribs male and female about 3” & 2” just purchased

Indeed I may well be overstocked, but im keeping on top of it with regular water testing and changes etc. and my levels are staying low and constant at the minute. A lot are v small and under or around an inch in size and it seems to be working well so far. The only fatalities ive had was a half eatin platy and lost 2 clown loaches very early on, 1 each time after a water change. But my other 2 are doing fine and haven’t had any more problems.

Obv I want to try and accommodate everyone and there are a few bottom dwellers in there. At the minute there has been no fighting and everyone is getting along. Although I would like to try and re-model/landscape to accommodate them all a bit better so they can each have their own wee section, the kribs and loaches sharing the little castle is probably not the most ideal situation lol but hopefully can sort that by moving things around etc and adding the coconut caves.

Im open to any and all suggestions as its all for the benefit of my little fishy world and to get the best out of them.
Should all the caves be kept together or spread them all out etc..

Items can be removed to create more space so please fire away with any ideas folks

 

[TAL]

The overstocking and tank too small for the adult size of your fish police are going to go SWAT all over you!

 

[misterking]

Stock - 2 rainbow sharks
- 1 pleco 6” – not sure on specifics – just looks like your average
- 5 small inch or less zebra danios – I think 2 are full of eggs
- 7 red platys – 2 of which look like marbles and are continuing to get fatter
- 4 beacon tetras I think they are.
- 6 black skirt tetras
- 2 blue gouramis – 3”
- 2 sailfin mollies male + female
- 2 bettas male + female
- 2 tinfoil barbs – small at the minute 2”
- 2 small clown loaches inch and a half each
- 2 v small leopard cory’s just purchased half inch each
- 2 kribs male and female about 3” & 2” just purchased

Wow, I'm not sure I know where to start! TAL, do you blame us for being a bit concerned? Comments such as that aren't helpful to any thread.

The tank is very overstocked. Here are a few issues I think will come up in the future about a few of the fish:

- 2 rainbow sharks will almost certainly become very very territorial with each other, and other fish.

- Your 6" pleco will likely grow into a 24" pleco, crowding your tank beyond belief, destroying your plants and decor and ruining your water quality.

- Platies - will breed and breed and breed and soon there will be hundreds of them. Same for the mollies, who also like their water slightly brackish.

- The 2 blue gouramis may eventually get very aggressive with each other.

- Tinfoil barbs grow HUGE. 14 inches isn't rare in a properly maintained and large enough aquarium. They may be small at the minute but boy will they grow.

- Bettas don't make good community fish - I'll let an expert on them (probably bass) give you more info on that.

- Clown loaches do grow quite large in the right setup.

- Your kribs, should they breed, will give the other tankmates hell.

Your decor plan sounds great but I think this is a far more pressing issue. When they grow to their full size your filters and water changes won't be able to keep up with the waste this amount of fish will produce in such a small space. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news!

 

[misterking]

Just thought I'd add - I input your tank details into an online tool called Aqadvisor, which many people use to check stocking limits and if their fish are compatible. I replaced your beacon tetras with pristella tetras because they're almost identicle in size and stature and beacon tetras are currently not on there. This is the full (and lengthy, I warn you) list of warnings and problems it came up with:

Note: Common Pleco needs driftwood.
Warning: Common Pleco is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 18 inches.
Warning: Common Pleco requires a tank with more height.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Zebra Danio.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Platy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Platy.
Warning: Pristella Tetra will likely to fin nip Sailfin Molly.
Warning: Pristella Tetra will likely to fin nip Betta [Male].
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Pristella Tetra.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Black Skirt Tetra.
Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Sailfin Molly, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Sailfin Molly.
Note: Betta [Female] can still become aggressive even if she doesn't show aggression right away. Not recommended to be mixed with peaceful community species. Also, they may jump - lids are recommended.
Warning: Betta [Female] is not recommended to be with Betta [Male] due to high male aggression.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Betta [Female].
Note: Betta [Male] may jump - lids are recommended. They can become stressful under presence of too many shoaling species. Try to keep under 1 shoal if the tank is small. Individual bettas may exhibit varying degrees of aggression and care should be taken that exceptionally aggressive/territorial fish be separated from a community before any damage may occur.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Common Pleco - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Zebra Danio - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Pristella Tetra - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Black Skirt Tetra - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Blue Gourami - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] will likely to fin nip Sailfin Molly.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Sailfin Molly - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Betta [Female] - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Tinfoil Barb - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Clown Loach - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Betta [Male].
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Kribensis - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Tinfoil Barb is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Tinfoil Barb are recommended in a group.
Note: Clown Loach may pretend to be dead at times.
Warning: Clown Loach is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Clown Loach are recommended in a group.
Warning: At least 4 x Julii Cory are recommended in a group.
Warning: When Kribensis starts to breed, they may become too aggressive to co-exist with Julii Cory.
Warning: At least 5 x Pristella Tetra are recommended in a group.

Warning: Your selected species may eventually require 286% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Chromobotia macracanthus, Corydoras julii, Pelvicachromis pulcher) or get a larger tank.

Warning: Water temperature requirements are not fully compatible between all selected species.
=> 22 - 28C: Common Pleco
=> 18 - 24C: Zebra Danio
=> 18 - 25C: Platy
=> 24 - 28C: Pristella Tetra
=> 20 - 28C: Black Skirt Tetra
=> 22 - 28C: Blue Gourami
=> 20 - 28C: Sailfin Molly
=> 24 - 30C: Betta [Female]
=> 24 - 30C: Betta [Male]
=> 22 - 28C: Tinfoil Barb
=> 24 - 30C: Clown Loach
=> 25 - 28C: Julii Cory
=> 24 - 27C: Kribensis
[Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 15 dH.


Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 18%.
Your tank is too small - it will require massive amount of frequent water changes each week!

Your aquarium stocking level is 279%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. Unless this setup is temporary, you should consider a larger tank.

 

[TAL]

LMAO... look at all those warnings!!!

Mr. K.... I'm just happy I have met someone who actually overstocked worse than I ever did!!!

Can you picture the tank if all the fish grew up....

There would only be about 4 gallons of water in it with the rest of the space being fish stacked up upon each other..... meanwhile - - there are two rainbow sharks desperately trying to wiggle towards each other for a fight to determin who gets to call this stack of dying fish with barely any water their home!

Omg.....


OP...hang around. You will be OK in time! Just a bit of learning to do!

Oh man..I'm still laughing....

 

[bassbonediva]

I'm going to add to the betta advice AqAdvisor and misterking gave.

Male and female bettas SHOULD NOT be kept together. Period. I know one person who attempted it in a 55gal tank (NOT me!) with plenty of hiding places and his experiment only lasted about three days. The female hid all the time and the male was constantly hunting for her. That being said, females can be just as aggressive as males, so I would actually be more concerned about the potential for the female to get fed up with the male's attitude and fight back. As you've probably noticed, except for in the plakat and halfmoon plakat varieties of bettas, the males are not nearly as fast-moving as the females because of their long, flowing fins. Those quick little girls can and will zip in and take a bite out of a male's fins before the male knows what's happening. I have heard of cases of male and female bettas being housed together and the female actually ripped the male's fins to shreds (this happens in mating quite often).

Aside from the male/female being together issue, most of your other fish would just love to make a snack out of your male's flowing fins. Gouramis are anabantoids, just like bettas, meaning they breathe surface air and inhabit the upper portion of the water column. Just like bettas (they are related, actually), they can be VERY territorial and aggressive to any fish they see as a threat to their territory (read: BETTAS). I have a male flame dwarf gourami in my 18gal tall tank and when I had my last ram, he would not leave her alone because he saw her as a threat, even though she didn't even go near the top of the water column. Your tetras, especially the black skirts, are notorious fin nippers and will go after anything with longer fins (again, read: BETTAS). Same thing goes for mollies, rainbow sharks and the barbs. I think it's funny that AqAdvisor is concerned about the male betta being the aggressor...I can almost guarantee that won't be the case. Male bettas in community tanks will be all flare and "talk" at first, but then they'll realize that the other fish can kick their butt and they will be constantly hiding, their color will wash out and they won't live nearly as long.

Your female betta would actually be okay in a community tank (sans the male betta, of course). Heck, your tank is PERFECT for a sorority (not too deep for bettas since their swim bladders can't cope with water generally deeper than 16" and plenty of horizontal swimming space, which bettas LOVE). I would kill for your tank, just so I could have a sorority and nothing else (except a few bottom feeders like cories) in it (yeah, already thinking of ideas for it...I'm bad! lol).

To address your questions of 'scaping. I like to leave as much swimming space as possible, but still give my fish plenty of places to hide. That being said, spreading out your decorations (since you have such a long tank, you can do that) is probably the best idea. If you go to my thread on my 55gal tank (it's in the general fish keeping forum and is entitled "Epic Fail! And I'm *still* not sure how/why!"), you'll see how my 55gal is 'scaped. I prefer the more natural look for most of my tanks, though. The rocks in the right corner of the tank do create a small cave, but most of my fish that I have in there at the moment aren't big into hiding...except my horseface loach, but he burrows in the sand, so that is taken care of. I'm going to be adding more swords, hopefully tomorrow (which is when Petsmart gets their new shipment of stock in). I have only one fish with a nipped fin (my female pineapple sword), but I think it was the male pineapple sword that did it. That tank is currently stocked with two female bettas, two platies (one hi-fin, one regular), one female swordtail, one male swordtail, one featherfin catfish and one horseface loach. My eventual stock is listed in my 55gal thread. You can also check out my threads on my son's 29gal tank and my 18gal tall Grecian paradise in the "Rate My Tank" forum. They've both got some store-bought decorations, so they might give you some ideas.

 

[Fishman1995]

JESUS CHRIST.......with that being said HOLY CRAP....and to add to the effect GOOOD LORD...your tank is gonna become a battle field literally. The Kribs when they breed are gonna go ape on the Rainbow sharks and the betta's. If the betta's did breed which im thinking is nearly impossible but if they did the male would die defending his nest, the gouramis will also be an agression problem. The live bearers are gonna swarm the tank with baby's belive me. I had 2 guppys in my 5 gallon when i bought it and set it up and within a month i had to sell all the babys and just restart cause it got ridiculous. il let the others ell you what to take back cause this is overwelmig for me LOL ive never tried that many species and i love a variety (ask MK on that) id just return the Livebearers for sure, the sharks, the male and female betta, the gourami. i think that'd help alot right now

 

[misterking]

JESUS CHRIST.......with that being said HOLY CRAP....and to add to the effect GOOOD LORD...

Haha, language fishman...!

Sound advice from both bass and fishman here.

I'd just like to add - I know when you read all the above it may seem a bit overwhelming and quite hard to take. Just remember, on forums like this we all just want what's best for the fish as you do too. You've got the makings of a lovely tank (a great size as bass said), just, as with the vast majority of us when we've started out, you've got a bit carried away when you've bought your fish. We're all here to help so I really hope we haven't scared you off!

 

[OrangeCones]

+1 on what misterking says.

I replaced your beacon tetras with pristella tetras because they're almost identicle in size and stature and beacon tetras are currently not on there.

The tetra is listed in AqAdvisor.com but as "Head and Tail Light Tetra" instead of "Beacon Tetra." Both are 'common names' for Hemigrammus ocellifer.

How long have all of these fish lived together in your tank? Is this tank properly cycled?

 

[bassbonediva]

If the betta's did breed which im thinking is nearly impossible but if they did the male would die defending his nest.... I'd take back...the male and female betta

The bettas will not breed or even attempt it. They will be too stressed. Also, they prefer shallow water (3-5" generally) to breed.

I wouldn't necessarily take the bettas back. If you have the money, buy a 5-10gal tank and divided it in half for the pair. I can provide a great link on a way to make a cheap, DIY divider. You can find 5-10gal tanks pretty cheaply at yard sales, estate sales and thrift stores (one of my friends just bought a brand new 10gal with hood and some extras for $5 at an estate sale). THE ONLY two tanks I've ever bought new were my Hex5 (first tank I ever bought) and my 20gL (because I couldn't find any used...and then one showed up on Craigslist for $15 in my area not two days after I bought and set up the 20gL*ALL*). Other than that, I've either gotten my tanks (and filters/accessories) at garage sales or thrift stores, or even for free from people (got my 55gal and my 29gal for free).

 

[misterking]

+1 on what misterking says.



The tetra is listed in AqAdvisor.com but as "Head and Tail Light Tetra" instead of "Beacon Tetra." Both are 'common names' for Hemigrammus ocellifer.

How long have all of these fish lived together in your tank? Is this tank properly cycled?

I must have had a typo, I couldn't even find head and tail lights! Still, I think pristellas are a fairly appropriate substitute for now.

 

[TAL]

I hope the OP comes back.....I love his enthuiasm for wanting to have soo many fish!

He'll have MTS in no time.

And you guys haven't been to rough on him which is nice.

 

[HEADIN]

Still here folks. Advice is what im after and this is the best place 4 it. Wats OP stand for 1st?

After reading all that, much apprieciated folks as its all guidance, I think I will be attemptin to cut my stock right down. Either a 2nd tank or else pass them 2new homes. Of hand perhaps 1 of my sharks, the smaller 1, the tinfoil barbs, gouramis, the female betta and 2 of my schooling fish. Platys maybe and 1 of the others. Ive had my tank up now 4 about 6 weeks or so and all my parameters are stayin pretty low. If I cut down my stock ill also b able 2 landscape a bit better wg more space.

Any recommends on which to move other than wat I said?

 

[lauraf]

Welcome! Glad we didn't scare you away with our smackdown
Ist - OP stand for Original Poster. You.
2nd - great call on rehoming the fish you've listed. Maybe the pleco too while you're at it? And I'd seriously think about getting the male betta out of there too - it depends on the fish - if he isn't looking stressed, he *might* be okay. Your clown loaches will eventually get too big for your tank as well.
3rd - back to a question OrangeCones asked: Did you ever cycle your tank? Are you famiiar with the process? And do you have test kits to show your levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? These are important levels to be aware of, as if they are out of whack, they will stress or kill your fish.
Keep on posting!

 

[misterking]

OP = original poster.

Cutting down is a very good idea, between 2 tanks is even better - that way as little fish as possible have to be given up. However I'd still seriously consider returning the pleco and tinfoil barbs, they just get too big for average home aquaria.

Smaller plecos are available - for example, bristlenose plecos and rubberlip plecos will only reach a maximum of 6 inches. This would be perfect as a replacement for your current pleco.

Other than that I'd do the following if you don't want another tank:

Return the pleco, tinfoil barbs, mollies, one of the gouramis, one of the bettas, the platies and as you said one of the shoals. This should cut you down to fairly nice stocking.

If you get another tank, you could split them between but again I'd return the pleco and barbs.

 

[TAL]

Pitbull plecos!!!

I feel for him on the pleco. I have a common pleco that is going to outgrow my tank....but I have a home lined up for him.

I'm also rehoming my clown loach to be replaced by yoyo loaches. Again I feel for him. They look like awesome fish to have but the darn things grow too big. But at least he can be enjoyed for a while before then.

I'm lucky to have a LFS that is incredible. A fish only place called uncle ned's fish factory. Maybe the OP can find something similar in his area. When your only resource is a national chain - you;re kinda at a disadvantage.

Heck - I remember thinking - if they keep 30 rainbow sharks in 1 tank, why can;t I have just 3???

 

[HEADIN]

Definately going 2 rehome or get a corner bow tank. Its not gona cost so if I can get it down even better.

Im using the test strips at the minute and tested yesterday.

My ammonia is up to 1 from 0 a few days ago. Nitrate just below 25 and nitrite 0.5.
They hav risen slightly from a few days ago. Due a water change tonight and a gd vacuum of the gravel etc.
Cleaned my old filter last nite again as it was starting to clog.

I g6t my tank givin 2me along with some of the fish- pleco, platys, female betta.
I knew nothing about the process until I started reading up on it all about a week or 2 after getting it up and running. So it was never cycled in the sense of waiting till my levels where right down to zero before starting to add fish. Learning as I go, and determined to make it a success.
Appreciate the comments so far. Keep em coming.

Also when I move house ill be gettin my hands on a larger tank so that should accommodate my fish that will grow, well b4 they get to any large sizes.

 

[bassbonediva]

Did you clean your filter media in old tank water or in tap water? Have you tested your tap water to see if it has ammonia or nitrites present naturally?

 

[HEADIN]

Did you clean your filter media in old tank water or in tap water? Have you tested your tap water to see if it has ammonia or nitrites present naturally?

Yes i cleaned it out with a drop of tank water. I've no idea how long this filter has been in use as i got it with the tank, but it seems to clog up after a few days.
I have my new 3+ in along side it running nicely until it gets up to speed and cycled. In a few weeks i think i'll get new sponges etc.. for my 2+ and have them both running together to give me as much filtration as possible.

I never even thought to test the tap water to see if it has any ammonia or nitrites. All i would do is treat it get rid of the chlorine and chlorimine.

 

[bassbonediva]

If your water has ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates in it naturally, you might want to up the type of water conditioner you're using. I personally like Prime. It detoxifies ammonia, nitrites and nitrates that might already be in your water.