Urgent: Need new filter, which one?

[Opesus]

My fish are dying, and I think it's my crappy undergravel filter.

I need a new one, hopefully one of those tri filter thingies.

The only problem is that I'm not sure what will fit to mount on my tank.

Do I get one rated for 10 gallons, or should I go a step a bove? Would one for a larger tank be more effective, or just wasteful?

I'm hoping to stay under $20. Availability of replacement media is a must!

I've attached a drawing of the opening for the filter on my tank, which is fairly small.

 

[Igor The Cat]

Aquaclear 30

 

[turbo_h4]

personally I don't like aquaclear because I have two and both of them needs to be cleaned weekly or the waterflow would be greatly reduced.

I would go for a penguin 100 or 150 instead. But not sure if it will fit in ur particular tank.

 

[Opesus]

Ok I purchased a Penguin 100. I was thinking later i should have gotten a 125, but this one is good up to 20, and it's dumping out quite the current. My little fish love it, but I think anymore would just be too much for a 10 gallon.

I found $12 for 6 cartridges on petco.com with free shipping. I'm guessing that's the best deal I'll find.

Is 1 a month good for replacement? I think a friend of mine has never replaced the cartridge after about 6 months. Is it possible the fish are alive if there are water changes once a month?

The one thing I don't like about it, is that the intake tube isn't adjustable. It has really long mode, and really short mode, but that's it...

Also, how long should I let the undergravel filter run for before I pull it out? It has quite a bit of algae inside and looks hideous compared to a power filter...

 

[GoldLenny]

OK.. don't fall into the trap of changing your filters every few weeks or every month like the filter people try to get you to do. I'm not familiar with your exact filter but most HOB's have a filter cartridge that holds the sponge, filter pad, charcoal, etc. After a couple of weeks, the charcoal is ineffective so all you want to do is dump the charcoal but keep the rest of the filter media as that is where the majority of your nitrifying bacteria colonies reside. When I do my weekly 25% PWC's, I turn off my HOB's, take the cartridge out and swoosh the pads/sponges/etc. out in a gallon of tank water so it gets the big stuff off of the pads without killing the good bacteria colonies. Then put it back together. This is also a good time to dump the water in the HOB since there is probably big stuff in the bottom of the HOB as well. Put it back together and fill the HOB reservoir with some of your tank water, plug it back in and you are good to go for another week or two. This will keep you from having a mini-cycle everytime you change the filter. If you do need to use charcoal for removal of medicines, treatments or some type of contamination, just use a media bag with some charcoal in it and drop it in the HOB reservoir. I know you just bought 6 filters so you probably have enough filters to last you 6 years since the filter pads should last at least a year using this method. If you do want to change filter cartridges, put a new one in the HOB reservoir for a couple of weeks so it will build up a bacteria colony before replacing the old one.

Let the new filter run for a couple of weeks to give the bacteria colonies a chance to grow before messing with your other filter. Otherwise, you could cause your tank to cycle again.

 

[ashleigh]

I agree completely. I'm not sure whta to say about taking the UGF out though. I can't imagine a way of doing it that won't create a huge mess. Do you do your water changes with a syphon? I would vacuum the gravel really well- get as much gunk out of there as you can before you do anything. I'm sure there's some drawback to leaving it in there- I'm not sure exactly what it woudl be though.

 

[GoldLenny]

I don't know all of the part names of a UGF but I did read a recent post in a Yahoo Group I subscribe to where you can take some "airline" hose and run it under the UGF plate and siphon the "mulm" (I think that's the word used for the muck under the UGF plate). As long as you do your regular gravel vacuums and keep the UGF running, you can just leave the UGF in your tank if you do not want to disrupt the tank since removing it will obviously do so. You can never over-filter a tank unless the current is swooping the fish around. The more filtration that you have, the better for your fish. Having the HOB will take some of the pressure off of the UGF to do all of the work.

 

[Opesus]

I currently using a gravel vaccum (the kind with the air pump).

I will try to filter out the drudge though.

 

[TradeWinds]

What are your water paramaters? How many/what kind of fish do you have in that ten gallon? What kind of airflow do you have going to the UGF, how many lift tubes do you use?

I kinda doubt the fish are dying because the UGF is inadequate, unless it's been in there for a long while and hasn't been cleaned.

And as to changing filter media, wouldn't it be alright since the UGF is in there too and probably has established a bacterial colony of its own?

 

[GoldLenny]

And as to changing filter media, wouldn't it be alright since the UGF is in there too and probably has established a bacterial colony of its own?

Why throw away a perfectly good filter with a healthy nitrifying bacteria colony because the filter companies are trying to sell filters? There's no reason to do it. Why risk a mini-cycle just to put another few dollars into the filter company's pocket?

I'm glad you asked about water parameters... I thought someone had already asked for those but in re-reading the thread, I see that question has not been asked. Good catch. I read so many threads, they get convoluted sometimes.

Opesus... have you tested your water recently? What are the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings? Temperature? pH? Planted or unplanted tank? Size and Stocking, etc.?

 

[Opesus]

Why throw away a perfectly good filter with a healthy nitrifying bacteria colony because the filter companies are trying to sell filters? There's no reason to do it. Why risk a mini-cycle just to put another few dollars into the filter company's pocket?

I'm glad you asked about water parameters... I thought someone had already asked for those but in re-reading the thread, I see that question has not been asked. Good catch. I read so many threads, they get convoluted sometimes.

Opesus... have you tested your water recently? What are the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings? Temperature? pH? Planted or unplanted tank? Size and Stocking, etc.?

My chemicals went bad, and I have yet to get a new set. I keep putting it off, because I'm not sure if I should get the quick test dip strips, or an entire testing kit.. temperature is hot.. Goes from 82-90 degrees.

 

[GoldLenny]

You can get the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit for $12.99 online from BigAlsOnline.com and $14.99 at PetsMart if you bring them the PetsMart.com page showing the internet price of $14.99.

The Master Test Kits are far more accurate than the dip-strips for dummies version. The Master Test Kits are much, much cheaper in the long run as well. I have my AP MTK for a year and there is still plenty of reagent left in all of the bottles. I test my water at least once a week or even daily on a new tank or Q-tank. The dip-strips for dummies usually only have 25 or 50 strips and cost just as much.

 

[Opesus]

Ok I took your advice and got the AP test kit.

It's a 10 gallon tank. I have no live plants. (They died last week)
I now have 2 zebra danios, 3 or 4 baby guppies, an ADF, CAE, 3 ghost shrimp and a kuhli loach.
I thorouglhly vaccumed the tank wednesday night, 50% water change thursday night.
My ADF keeps lying at the top of the water not moving, then swimming (sometimes sideways or upsides down) to get to the bottom. I think he's dying...

Is there a checklist of the optimal ph and temperature for all fish? I have a book with a temp range, but no ph.

Test Results
pH - 8.0?? - It's a violet hue like 8.8 is, but not nearly as deep (according to high range, regular ph was 7.6, the upper bounds, so i'm thinking the high range is what's accurate this time)
Ammonia - 0.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

So the pH seems to be pretty high, but they should be able to adjust. Nothing should have thrown off the tanks so I don't think it was a sharp swing. The fish have showed slight decoloration, but that's mostly in the morning when I just turn on the light.

The tank has been set up for almost 5 months now. I've had the danios with me since the beginning, same with the otocinclus.

Thanks for the help!

 

[TradeWinds]

Ok I took your advice and got the AP test kit.

It's a 10 gallon tank. I have no live plants. (They died last week)
I now have 2 zebra danios, 3 or 4 baby guppies, an ADF, CAE, 3 ghost shrimp and a kuhli loach.
I thorouglhly vaccumed the tank wednesday night, 50% water change thursday night.
My ADF keeps lying at the top of the water not moving, then swimming (sometimes sideways or upsides down) to get to the bottom. I think he's dying...

Is there a checklist of the optimal ph and temperature for all fish? I have a book with a temp range, but no ph.

Test Results
pH - 8.0?? - It's a violet hue like 8.8 is, but not nearly as deep (according to high range, regular ph was 7.6, the upper bounds, so i'm thinking the high range is what's accurate this time)
Ammonia - 0.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

So the pH seems to be pretty high, but they should be able to adjust. Nothing should have thrown off the tanks so I don't think it was a sharp swing. The fish have showed slight decoloration, but that's mostly in the morning when I just turn on the light.

The tank has been set up for almost 5 months now. I've had the danios with me since the beginning, same with the otocinclus.

Thanks for the help!

For checking on your fish's ideal pH/temp, I would go to www.fishprofiles.com, they have an excellent search engine . Also, I would ditch the CAE. According to fishprofiles it can get to 11 inches and becomes a pretty mean fish. How big is your CAE now? I wouldn't worry about the pH too much, mine's about the same as yours. Not much you can do about it anywho.

No nitrates at all? Shouldn't you have detectable amounts after a few days? And I think 50% water changes are a lot for every week. I thought more like 20% was normal.

You are using water conditioner, right?

 

[ram man]

the sell an internal power filter at petcofor about 15 dollars

 

[Opesus]

For checking on your fish's ideal pH/temp, I would go to www.fishprofiles.com, they have an excellent search engine . Also, I would ditch the CAE. According to fishprofiles it can get to 11 inches and becomes a pretty mean fish. How big is your CAE now? I wouldn't worry about the pH too much, mine's about the same as yours. Not much you can do about it anywho.

No nitrates at all? Shouldn't you have detectable amounts after a few days? And I think 50% water changes are a lot for every week. I thought more like 20% was normal.

You are using water conditioner, right?

Yes on water conditioner. Well I just started using that... up until then i've just been using aquarium salt.

My cae is only 2-2.5 inches, and i haven't seen any problems with him yet.

so that still leaves me confused why so many are dying.

I normally do 25-33% every other week. I did a 50% due to the deaths.

 

[TradeWinds]

I dunno what kind of quality your tap water is, but not using a water conditioner until recently could have something to do with your fish dying. Heavy metals perhaps poisioning them in the long run?

That's just me guessing though.

 

[GoldLenny]

Yeah... I was wondering about the NO nitrates but that answers it. Since you were using tap water, you were probably killing your nitrifying bacteria in your filter and gravel every time you did a water change. You need to do daily testing for ammonia and nitrites since your tank will probably start to "cycle" again. Go re-read the Sticky threads at the beginning of this forum for Cycling With Fish.

What brand tap water conditioner are you using? Does it say that it does anything other than neutralize chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals?

With a 10G tank that is currently on the verge or possible already overstocked and possibly ready to "cycle" again, you should do a 10% PWC daily. Get a gallon jug and take 1G out daily. Then fill the jug with tap, treat it with the dechlor product that you have and it works nearly instantly so you can then add it to your water.

Remember to test daily for ammonia and nitrites for 2 weeks and you should see your ammonia go up and then come back to 0.0, then you will see your nitrites go up and come back to 0.0. Then you need to test your nitrates and whenever they get to 40ppm, do a 25% PWC or just do a weekly 25% PWC and monitor your nitrates to make sure they stay under 40ppm.

You will probably have pH swings during this process so don't worry too much about them as long as they do not go over 8.5 or under 6.0. Do not add any of the pH chemicals to your water as they just cause more swings back and forth and you do want to keep it stabilized. Fish can adopt to various pH's as long as they stay relatively stable.

Answer the questions and ask any others.

The only other thing I was worried about was some kind of toxic build-up under your UGF plate, but that was before you said you were adding pure tap water without conditioner. Now, if you have non-chlorinated, non-chloramine tap water, then the problem could be a toxic build-up under the UGF.

Hopefully, you have some good bacteria that survived so you may just have a mini-cycle that will happend quick. Otherwise, it could be 4-6 weeks of daily testing and PWC's.

 

[Opesus]

Ooops sorry for the confusion...

I have been using Mar Chlor chlorine/chloramine remover/ water conditioner.

I just switched to a water conditioner by Stress Coat that contains Aloea Vera, removes chlorine.

I will try to get a siphon to go underneath the ugf in case that is the problem in order to remove junk.

<edited>

Ok I found the problem. There was just so much crap under my ugf, it was unbelievable. It all accumulated in less than 4 months, i will never use one of those again. My tank will essentially have to be recycled with what I have left.

I'm surprised my adf lasted longer than 2 danios.

What I lost: 2 zebra danios, 1 otocinclus, 2 baby guppies, and 1 adf. who knows what else

I still have: CAE, khuli, 2 zebras, 3 baby guppies, and my 3 new ghost shrimp. Hopefully the clean up crew can control some of the junk floating around. I vaccumed up as much as I could, but I dotn' want to lose too much water. I've already done quite a bit of changing.

 

[GoldLenny]

Yeah.. there are some people that swear by UGF's but I've read more stories like yours where people get a huge buildup of muck under the plate.

Remember to do daily, or every other day, testing of your water for the next few weeks to monitor your nitrogen cycle. Do 25% PWC's whenever your ammonia or nitrites get above 0.5 and 1.0, respectively, and your pets will not be harmed. Higher levels can cause short term and long term problems.