Why small tanks aren't good.
- Thread starter Avalon
- Start date
Echoofformless, although I am FishWhisperer, I am very much a beginner at the "fish hobby." I started with a 10 gal tank because my niece begged me for one at Wal Mart. I, of course, was saving for at least a 55 gal to start since I had heard to "buy the biggest I could afford" but my niece couldn't wait. Long story short, I have learned so much by starting with a 10 gal tank. I lost five fish total in the first "cycling" process and we now have a 20 gal tank soon to have 30 gal tank. We have three of the original neon tetras and one of the danios left from the first cycling phase. I agree with you, a 10 gal tank does serve its purpose when starting the fish keeping hobby. I enjoy it so much, I plan to do saltwater next. Currently we have a 10 gal tank, 20 gal tank, 5.5 gal for one female/male betta, 5.5 gal for one fantail goldfish, 10 gal for one black moor, one male betta in gal bowl, and one female betta in gal bowl. We do plan on a saltwater in the near future. I also was fortunate to have my brother for advice, since he has been doing this hobby for about twenty years. I do agree though, once one of the 10 gal tanks is free, I plan to have it as a quarantine tank. 
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With all due respect to Avalon, I couldn't disagree more. My 55 gallon is a pain in the butt to maintain. Water changes require a large syphon, my kitchen trash can, and repeated fillings of a bucket from my sink. And my ten gallon planted tetra tank is the easiest thing I have to maintain, next to my vases, which are so small I'd be given the death penalty in Finland and other countries that regulate aquatic pet life.
I would recommend a ten gallon tank to a beginner any day. A 20 or a 29 gallon if they can afford it, but a 55 gallon? Come on. With stand, that's the size of a bloody love seat or a small couch. A lot of real estate to take up in a room, not to mention the volume of water. I think it's just stupid to start out with a 55 gallon or larger tank if you're new to the hobby. Larger tanks are great, I'm not disputing that, and I love my 55 gallon and the inhabitants, but my smaller tanks are just so much easier to maintain.
A lot cheaper too, equipment, lights, and everything.
Here's the maintenance for my ten gallon:
Twice a week a 1 gallon water change (approximate). Takes less than one minute. What I do is use a gallon plastic water jug with the top cut off, scoop out as much water as it can hold, give the water to my wife to fertilize her plants, then fill it in the sink and add dechlorinator. I then drop in a bit of Flourish Excel for my plants, and depending on when it's due, add other liquid fertilizer as well.
My vases take a little bit more time, but no less than three minutes. What I do is use the same plastic jug with a plastic cup. I scoop out a cup of water from each vase, pour it in the jug, then refill the jug with dechlor'ed water and use the cup to fill the vases back up (I have three 1.5 or 1.75 gallon vases, never bothered to check the exact volume).
No filtration on the vases other than daily or every other day water changes (you could keep a vase like this at your work desk easily, long as you keep appropriate fish, if you have a cubicle or desk job).
With the ten gallon, I use the biowheel mini filter. Very easy to clean whenever it gets gummy, takes no more than half an hour.
Now the 55 gallon...
I don't quite understand this oft-parroted mentality of having a smaller volume of water yields a smaller chance of error you have. Yes, chemically and biologically, this is true. But no matter how insanely large our home aquarium systems are, they are nothing to even a small body of natural water, and in my opinion and experience, the difference between a ten gallon and a 29 gallon are negligible.
Everything depends on the variables of your tank. Size and surface volume is a variable, but it's not the holy grail of fish keeping.
Here are just a few possible variables to keep in mind...
Larger tanks are simply a much larger investment. More space, more weight on your floor, and much more to lose if it cracks or fractures. In addition to this, they cost a lot more, and that doesn't even include the equipment, which is much more expensive. I keep two HOB filters on my 55 gallon. With two filters, you have twice the possibility of having a problem to identify, not to mention the increased amount of time it takes to clean those huge bulky things every 4-6 months when all parts of them gum up (intake tube, interior filter, and my favorite, the impellor housing).
Larger tanks, in my experience, give one the misguided notion of stocking more. This yields more work and maintenance. With smaller tanks, you know your limits, and for ten gallons, you don't get a fish that grows more than 2 inches.
If you're a short person, like me, then it can be difficult to clean the tank of algae at the bottom or gravel vac, unless you have proper tools for a huge tank. Cleaning a larger tank of algae requires more effort, which means larger tanks are not easier to take care of, necessarily. Also draining the tank in the instance of an emergency will take much longer and require more effort than a smaller tank.
Is your floor level? What you could get away with with a ten gallon you couldn't with a 55 gallon. One of my first posts on MFT detailed my battle with getting my 55 gallon set up. Here's that story...
How's your lighting? If you're not planning on keeping live plants, then you're fine with the standard fluorescent bulbs. However, if you are planning on live plants, get ready for major expenses or some dedicated DIY work in constructing proper lights for a tank that deep.
These issues all become minor if you start with a ten gallon tank. For instance, live plants can become almost simple! Purchase a cheap incandescent hood and replace the bulbs with proper K-rated screw-in compact fluorescents, and you can keep nearly any plant. I have this set up and I can keep any plant that can live with 2.5 watts per gallon. I'm no good at electrical DIY or overdriving bulbs, so I'd never even consider having a planted large tank unless I came into a lot of money.
I stick to the military philosophy of keeping it simple. The simpler the plan, the less that can go wrong. With a larger tank, so much more can go wrong, and in my experience, it can be really tough figuring it out for all the variables involved. Not to mention, you have a 600 pound paper weight in your room that's not easily moved!
I'm not bashing large tanks. I love them. However, I am a dedicated hobbyist, and I would never recommend a 55 gallon tank to the beginner. Start out small and see if you like the hobby. And if you are ready to take the plunge with a large tank, is your spouse ready? Or your mom or dad?
Are you ready for the commitments of a large tank?
These are all questions and factors you need to think about before you instantly subscribe to the notion that bigger is better.
I apologize to Avalon for posting this before he could post all of his sticky, but since so many replied, I felt inclined.
I would recommend a ten gallon tank to a beginner any day. A 20 or a 29 gallon if they can afford it, but a 55 gallon? Come on. With stand, that's the size of a bloody love seat or a small couch. A lot of real estate to take up in a room, not to mention the volume of water. I think it's just stupid to start out with a 55 gallon or larger tank if you're new to the hobby. Larger tanks are great, I'm not disputing that, and I love my 55 gallon and the inhabitants, but my smaller tanks are just so much easier to maintain.
A lot cheaper too, equipment, lights, and everything.
Here's the maintenance for my ten gallon:
Twice a week a 1 gallon water change (approximate). Takes less than one minute. What I do is use a gallon plastic water jug with the top cut off, scoop out as much water as it can hold, give the water to my wife to fertilize her plants, then fill it in the sink and add dechlorinator. I then drop in a bit of Flourish Excel for my plants, and depending on when it's due, add other liquid fertilizer as well.
My vases take a little bit more time, but no less than three minutes. What I do is use the same plastic jug with a plastic cup. I scoop out a cup of water from each vase, pour it in the jug, then refill the jug with dechlor'ed water and use the cup to fill the vases back up (I have three 1.5 or 1.75 gallon vases, never bothered to check the exact volume).
No filtration on the vases other than daily or every other day water changes (you could keep a vase like this at your work desk easily, long as you keep appropriate fish, if you have a cubicle or desk job).
With the ten gallon, I use the biowheel mini filter. Very easy to clean whenever it gets gummy, takes no more than half an hour.
Now the 55 gallon...
I don't quite understand this oft-parroted mentality of having a smaller volume of water yields a smaller chance of error you have. Yes, chemically and biologically, this is true. But no matter how insanely large our home aquarium systems are, they are nothing to even a small body of natural water, and in my opinion and experience, the difference between a ten gallon and a 29 gallon are negligible.
Everything depends on the variables of your tank. Size and surface volume is a variable, but it's not the holy grail of fish keeping.
Here are just a few possible variables to keep in mind...
Larger tanks are simply a much larger investment. More space, more weight on your floor, and much more to lose if it cracks or fractures. In addition to this, they cost a lot more, and that doesn't even include the equipment, which is much more expensive. I keep two HOB filters on my 55 gallon. With two filters, you have twice the possibility of having a problem to identify, not to mention the increased amount of time it takes to clean those huge bulky things every 4-6 months when all parts of them gum up (intake tube, interior filter, and my favorite, the impellor housing).
Larger tanks, in my experience, give one the misguided notion of stocking more. This yields more work and maintenance. With smaller tanks, you know your limits, and for ten gallons, you don't get a fish that grows more than 2 inches.
If you're a short person, like me, then it can be difficult to clean the tank of algae at the bottom or gravel vac, unless you have proper tools for a huge tank. Cleaning a larger tank of algae requires more effort, which means larger tanks are not easier to take care of, necessarily. Also draining the tank in the instance of an emergency will take much longer and require more effort than a smaller tank.
Is your floor level? What you could get away with with a ten gallon you couldn't with a 55 gallon. One of my first posts on MFT detailed my battle with getting my 55 gallon set up. Here's that story...
How's your lighting? If you're not planning on keeping live plants, then you're fine with the standard fluorescent bulbs. However, if you are planning on live plants, get ready for major expenses or some dedicated DIY work in constructing proper lights for a tank that deep.
These issues all become minor if you start with a ten gallon tank. For instance, live plants can become almost simple! Purchase a cheap incandescent hood and replace the bulbs with proper K-rated screw-in compact fluorescents, and you can keep nearly any plant. I have this set up and I can keep any plant that can live with 2.5 watts per gallon. I'm no good at electrical DIY or overdriving bulbs, so I'd never even consider having a planted large tank unless I came into a lot of money.
I stick to the military philosophy of keeping it simple. The simpler the plan, the less that can go wrong. With a larger tank, so much more can go wrong, and in my experience, it can be really tough figuring it out for all the variables involved. Not to mention, you have a 600 pound paper weight in your room that's not easily moved!
I'm not bashing large tanks. I love them. However, I am a dedicated hobbyist, and I would never recommend a 55 gallon tank to the beginner. Start out small and see if you like the hobby. And if you are ready to take the plunge with a large tank, is your spouse ready? Or your mom or dad?
Are you ready for the commitments of a large tank?
These are all questions and factors you need to think about before you instantly subscribe to the notion that bigger is better.
I apologize to Avalon for posting this before he could post all of his sticky, but since so many replied, I felt inclined.
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I am one of those newbies who started with a large tank. I am very glad I did. I am lazy and my SIL, who has had aquariums for over 20 years, told us that bigger was easier. I agree. I was planning on a 70g, but we lucked out and found a 120g with stand and many extras for less than just a 70g tank. It has only been up for just less than a year but it has been challenging, and fun. I'm hooked. But I know I wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much if I had started with a small tank. I would not have done much research because I wouldn't have had that much at stake (I mean really, how hard could it be - after all you just put the fish in your tank, and hope for the best, right? ) I know I would have been frustrated with the lack of stocking options on a small tank. I doubt I would have found this site.
My next goal is to get a breeding tank to see if my spawning angels can raise their own babies. I know a 20g would be acceptable, but I'm hoping I can find a deal on a used 55g, or maybe a 77g. . . . I don't think I would ever want to have a 10g for anything other than a fry/quarantine tank.
) I know I would have been frustrated with the lack of stocking options on a small tank. I doubt I would have found this site. My next goal is to get a breeding tank to see if my spawning angels can raise their own babies. I know a 20g would be acceptable, but I'm hoping I can find a deal on a used 55g, or maybe a 77g. . . . I don't think I would ever want to have a 10g for anything other than a fry/quarantine tank.
Thanks for the replies, guys! For or against, it doesn't matter. While it would be nice for everyone to have huge "understocked" tanks, there are those that are adamant about their preferences of small tanks. That's awesome!
Do keep in mind that I'm not bashing anyone. I've seen some friggin' awesome small tanks that defy logic (just browse the small tank class in the AGA link in my sig)...but at the same time they require expertise. Many of us do not have that expertise. My problem is that after (my) work, the last thing I want to do is micromanage when I get home. For other folks, it could be due to lack of knowledge, or maybe they have a family to care for. We are/were all rookies once...that's why we're here: to share information!
Oh yeah, part 2 is up.
Do keep in mind that I'm not bashing anyone. I've seen some friggin' awesome small tanks that defy logic (just browse the small tank class in the AGA link in my sig)...but at the same time they require expertise. Many of us do not have that expertise. My problem is that after (my) work, the last thing I want to do is micromanage when I get home. For other folks, it could be due to lack of knowledge, or maybe they have a family to care for. We are/were all rookies once...that's why we're here: to share information!
Oh yeah, part 2 is up.
I am really enjoying the posts that are coming out because of Avalon's topic. The thread is teaching me a lot of things as well as helping to define my own opinions.
I am interested in purchasing a freshwater fish keeping book. After searching on Amazon, I have found several that may suit my needs. Interestingly enough one of the books for beginners states that bigger is better and beginners should look into a 55g.
Before I spend some $$ and purchase a book that may suit me, are there any that I should pay particular attention to? Suggestions are welcome.
I am interested in purchasing a freshwater fish keeping book. After searching on Amazon, I have found several that may suit my needs. Interestingly enough one of the books for beginners states that bigger is better and beginners should look into a 55g.
Before I spend some $$ and purchase a book that may suit me, are there any that I should pay particular attention to? Suggestions are welcome.
Large tanks require lots of time, lots of devotion, and lots of space. I know you said this thread doesn't pertain to us "micromanagment" guys, but I would have to disagree with the claim that larger tanks are better for newbs. They are a pain in the butt to clean and require alot of money to be put into them inorder to see results (money for large filters, lights, etc etc). The smaller "kit" tanks are awesome and perfect for most beginners. I would also like to believe that the smaller aquariums are easier to cycle but I'm not sure.
-Xan
-Xan
Sorry GIS I dont know any off the top of my head but I'm sure someone will pipe up with a suggestion.
I just felt the need to pipe up here a little. I know just from my personal frustration with setting up my first tank (a 10g of course haha) I almost immediately learned the limitations of my wonderful new tank's stocking capacity etc...found another setup that was 16G (used) and proceeded to get a 1g and a 5g (because I ran out of $$ and room in my place). IF I had a chance to go back I most certainly would have started with a 29. I bought this tank/stand/hood at a garage sale NEXT DOOR for $30. My only startup costs were for a new filter and a heater, then deco and fish of course.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though this hobby can be very expensive...there are also many ways to make it less expensive than you see it for in your local stores. I dont subscribe to that a newbie should invest 100's in their first tank because they might decide that a 55 is not suitable for what they're looking for and need something bigger, or find that something smaller is what they're looking for. A 10 is most certainly too small to combine many fish and I think thats the reason so many newbies overstock them is because they start out like I did thinking that a 10 is a really big tank compared to those little betta cups...and then realize that its not but by that time they've already invested too much money in the 10 to upgrade. They dont know about the places like www.bigalsonline.com where they can save a lot of money by ordering instead of just getting it at their store.
In the end my suggestion for someone starting out is a 'mid-size' tank if I have to say a gallonage...something between 20 and 40 gallons. Of course if I dont get pushed into a corner for gallons I would first suggest that a person research what type of fish they want and design their tank before they even buy any equipment. The only thing that negates that is finding a great used system at a great price at a garage sale or somewhere like craigslist.com that is something you're interested in (not way too big or way too small).
Oh...and on the maintenance thing...my smallest tank is the biggest pain to work on and the largest tank is the easiest. Some of that is just by placement and how the tank is put together, and the rest is because of the size of the tank and the equipment I chose for it being my newest tank. If you get a large system and invest in a python...water changes are a snap.
And as far as cycling goes...cycling time doesn't change for the size of the tank (not getting in to ways to speed it up etc because they dont change depending on the size of the tank either). For newbies doing fish-in cycles, smaller tanks kill the fish faster because they're usually overstocked and the levels get lethal more quickly than a larger tank.
I just felt the need to pipe up here a little. I know just from my personal frustration with setting up my first tank (a 10g of course haha) I almost immediately learned the limitations of my wonderful new tank's stocking capacity etc...found another setup that was 16G (used) and proceeded to get a 1g and a 5g (because I ran out of $$ and room in my place). IF I had a chance to go back I most certainly would have started with a 29. I bought this tank/stand/hood at a garage sale NEXT DOOR for $30. My only startup costs were for a new filter and a heater, then deco and fish of course.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though this hobby can be very expensive...there are also many ways to make it less expensive than you see it for in your local stores. I dont subscribe to that a newbie should invest 100's in their first tank because they might decide that a 55 is not suitable for what they're looking for and need something bigger, or find that something smaller is what they're looking for. A 10 is most certainly too small to combine many fish and I think thats the reason so many newbies overstock them is because they start out like I did thinking that a 10 is a really big tank compared to those little betta cups...and then realize that its not but by that time they've already invested too much money in the 10 to upgrade. They dont know about the places like www.bigalsonline.com where they can save a lot of money by ordering instead of just getting it at their store.
In the end my suggestion for someone starting out is a 'mid-size' tank if I have to say a gallonage...something between 20 and 40 gallons. Of course if I dont get pushed into a corner for gallons I would first suggest that a person research what type of fish they want and design their tank before they even buy any equipment. The only thing that negates that is finding a great used system at a great price at a garage sale or somewhere like craigslist.com that is something you're interested in (not way too big or way too small).
Oh...and on the maintenance thing...my smallest tank is the biggest pain to work on and the largest tank is the easiest. Some of that is just by placement and how the tank is put together, and the rest is because of the size of the tank and the equipment I chose for it being my newest tank. If you get a large system and invest in a python...water changes are a snap.
And as far as cycling goes...cycling time doesn't change for the size of the tank (not getting in to ways to speed it up etc because they dont change depending on the size of the tank either). For newbies doing fish-in cycles, smaller tanks kill the fish faster because they're usually overstocked and the levels get lethal more quickly than a larger tank.
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The best book I've food is "The simple guide to freshwater aquariums" by David Boruchowitz. It's a good size book with everything you need to know and in the back, he even suggests some stocking schemes. My friend is starting and aquarium and she borrowed the book, so I had to look up the name on www.barnesandnoble.com (that's where I got it).
Well well well.... I am glad I waited a little before I posted on this thread. It's been a really good read, and I've read every response so far.
I think its important when creating an all-emcompasing thread, one that tries to cover a lot of bases, that you keep in mind the assumptions of why you believe this is this or so is so.
First off, speaking generally and from my experience, small tanks (10g or smaller) is typically how MOST people start this hobby. MOST people start with new tanks from a LFS, with a total budget of say... $75.00 for supplies and stock.
With that in mind, MOST overstock, MOST do not know what a cycle is, and MOST don't research the adult fish size.
Case and point... yesterday, at Walmart (Ughh I know I know), while buying some fish food for my goldies, a mother and her 2 kids bought 4 fantail goldies, 2 kissing gouramies and 4 tetras to put into her 15 gallon octagon tank. Odds are pretty good that 90% of those fish will be dead in 2 weeks... ya, I would take that bet for $100.00.
With that in mind... MOST people don't plant ahead. Even I will sometimes, (you ALL know what I am talking about), stand there at a LFS and see a new fish you want to get, buy it impulsively, take it home and plop it into a spare tank (usually a 10g right!) or (god forbid) simply throwing it into your community tank while you decide what you plan on doing for it later on.
So, with those assumptions (Budget, Planning, Stocking, Etc) if I had to tell a new person what to get... I would steer them into a 33 gallon (minimum 20 gallon) at least, knowing full well that after they listen to my advice, and IF, I repeat IF they decide to continue on after loosing a few fish (not give-up), they will start to experiment and learn on their own.
First off, a 33 gallon or larger will give you a lot more stock options, including a few fancy goldies OR a good sized school of tetras OR even a smaller cichlid tank.
Also, once you have a 33, upgrading to a 55 or even a 75 is not as hard because your filter and heater will typically do a fair job on bigger tanks. Whereas your Aqua-Clear Mini or whatever on a 10 gallon will not make a dent on a tank larger than a 20!
So, if your going to start off with a system that will give you the MOST options to explore your hobby, a 10 gallon is certainly NOT the best advice you can give a newbie. A 33 gallon will do the job.
The price difference between a 10 gallon and a 30 gallon is arguably twice, say $150.00, mostly because of the stand. But if budget is an issue, get a used one, its easy to find... just ask your neighbors or uncles.
And one last point.... most of the people on this forum and the Internet that will be reading this thread has already committed more energy than 80% of the rest of the newbie population. Your in the top 20%, maybe even 10% of hobbiests -- so this thread is really targeted for you, who are researching this hobby.
So go out there, get your 33+ gallon tank, and keep you 10 as a spare ... I've got two myself!
I think its important when creating an all-emcompasing thread, one that tries to cover a lot of bases, that you keep in mind the assumptions of why you believe this is this or so is so.
First off, speaking generally and from my experience, small tanks (10g or smaller) is typically how MOST people start this hobby. MOST people start with new tanks from a LFS, with a total budget of say... $75.00 for supplies and stock.
With that in mind, MOST overstock, MOST do not know what a cycle is, and MOST don't research the adult fish size.
Case and point... yesterday, at Walmart (Ughh I know I know), while buying some fish food for my goldies, a mother and her 2 kids bought 4 fantail goldies, 2 kissing gouramies and 4 tetras to put into her 15 gallon octagon tank. Odds are pretty good that 90% of those fish will be dead in 2 weeks... ya, I would take that bet for $100.00.
With that in mind... MOST people don't plant ahead. Even I will sometimes, (you ALL know what I am talking about), stand there at a LFS and see a new fish you want to get, buy it impulsively, take it home and plop it into a spare tank (usually a 10g right!) or (god forbid) simply throwing it into your community tank while you decide what you plan on doing for it later on.
So, with those assumptions (Budget, Planning, Stocking, Etc) if I had to tell a new person what to get... I would steer them into a 33 gallon (minimum 20 gallon) at least, knowing full well that after they listen to my advice, and IF, I repeat IF they decide to continue on after loosing a few fish (not give-up), they will start to experiment and learn on their own.
First off, a 33 gallon or larger will give you a lot more stock options, including a few fancy goldies OR a good sized school of tetras OR even a smaller cichlid tank.
Also, once you have a 33, upgrading to a 55 or even a 75 is not as hard because your filter and heater will typically do a fair job on bigger tanks. Whereas your Aqua-Clear Mini or whatever on a 10 gallon will not make a dent on a tank larger than a 20!
So, if your going to start off with a system that will give you the MOST options to explore your hobby, a 10 gallon is certainly NOT the best advice you can give a newbie. A 33 gallon will do the job.
The price difference between a 10 gallon and a 30 gallon is arguably twice, say $150.00, mostly because of the stand. But if budget is an issue, get a used one, its easy to find... just ask your neighbors or uncles.
And one last point.... most of the people on this forum and the Internet that will be reading this thread has already committed more energy than 80% of the rest of the newbie population. Your in the top 20%, maybe even 10% of hobbiests -- so this thread is really targeted for you, who are researching this hobby.
So go out there, get your 33+ gallon tank, and keep you 10 as a spare ... I've got two myself!
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Keeping an aquarium is not rocket science. There are many people, espcially in forum like this, that regards aquarist science as an exact science. Far from the truth, there is nothing exact about aquarium science. It is a lot of trial and error. What work in one tank doesn't work in another tank. Here is great example of experience. Many believe that you cannot keep mollies and neon tetras together but I kep and bred then successfully, I have being able to keep tiger barbs and convict and electric yellows without any problems. I even had a few guppies with my angels only tank. All these are contary to what experts advice you. This is because this is not an exact science.
Keeping an 10 gallon tank is no different than keeping a 55 gallon. Yes it is true that with greater volume of water, condition are more stable than in 10 gallon of water. But if proper care is taken, even 10 gallon tank can be show piece.
Many of us are hobbyist rather than true aquarist. We keep these aquarium for our enjoyment (I steup my "finding nemo" tank for son). Therefore we are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. You (I know I do) buy fishes because they look colorfull. Least thing on my mind is the compatability when I bought my blue regal tang and add it to the same tank that houses a percular clown and velvet damsel.
So whether you have 10 gallon tank or 55 or 1,000 gallon tank, what matter is the enjoyment you get out of it. What you learn from your mistakes.
Lets keep this hobby what it is hobby.
Rohn
Keeping an 10 gallon tank is no different than keeping a 55 gallon. Yes it is true that with greater volume of water, condition are more stable than in 10 gallon of water. But if proper care is taken, even 10 gallon tank can be show piece.
Many of us are hobbyist rather than true aquarist. We keep these aquarium for our enjoyment (I steup my "finding nemo" tank for son). Therefore we are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. You (I know I do) buy fishes because they look colorfull. Least thing on my mind is the compatability when I bought my blue regal tang and add it to the same tank that houses a percular clown and velvet damsel.
So whether you have 10 gallon tank or 55 or 1,000 gallon tank, what matter is the enjoyment you get out of it. What you learn from your mistakes.
Lets keep this hobby what it is hobby.
Rohn
i gotta somewhat agree with everyone. i have fun with all my tanks. the smaller tanks are a little more of a pain to do water changes on but it doesnt take as long as changing a 55. but i love my 5.5 and my 10 gallon, i have to also agree that around a 29-40 gallon is probably the best to start with, i started with my 29 and it had me totally addicted, then i got the 55. now after learning everything i have learned from the wonderful people at MFT, i wanted to get some smaller tanks and they have really been an enjoyment. although i think the 5.5 is going to end up with a betta or two in it and the 10 is going to be my new fry tank. i want to get a 20 for my convict pair, they are a little over 2 inches now and are going to need the space. the way i see it, it is a hobby, and all the tanks are fun if your dedicated enough.
One assumption we should not make is that all people are the same as you or I. Some of us see ourselves as aquarium experts, others as avid hobbiests, and some as total newbies. I've always considered myself an overall generalist with some specialities based on my experience.
I wouldn't say you need to be a rocket scientist to learn how to setup and maintain a healthy aquarium, but I would say that there are certain things you need to learn, sooner or later, like cycling, filtration, medications, and water changes.
When dispensing advice, would it not be better to steer someone towards a setup that will give the the MOST options to explore this new hobby instead of letting them guess based on what an untrained Walmart or other clerk might tell them.
I wouldn't say you need to be a rocket scientist to learn how to setup and maintain a healthy aquarium, but I would say that there are certain things you need to learn, sooner or later, like cycling, filtration, medications, and water changes.
When dispensing advice, would it not be better to steer someone towards a setup that will give the the MOST options to explore this new hobby instead of letting them guess based on what an untrained Walmart or other clerk might tell them.
I agree but what I have seing many of us forcing our down the throat of beginner. If we didn't make mistake our scientific advancements through out the history would have result in nothing. Louis Pastor (I hope I got the spelling right) discovered penicil by mistake and not by design. Without these mistakes we will all be in the dark ages still living caves. As I said, this is not an exact science and all we have to do is look at the 2-inch rule as proof.
Rohn
Rohn
Please don't misunderstand my point of view before everyone start attacking me. I think we should advice and guide beginner and answer question post by anyone without being forcefull.
The topic on this thread why bigger tank are better than smaller ones. This is like saying that formula one car is better than stock car or Honda Civic is better than Ferrrari F-550. True, bigger tank are more forgiving and have more stable water chemistry but small tank can be as good as the biggest tank. What this thread advice beginner is not to buy small tank but buy a bigger one because they better. Far from the truth. Please give advice but the correct one. I have seing even our moderator give wrong advice to some of the beginner.
If you are going to write an article do some research and explain in detail with reference and evidence why bigger tanks are better. Clearly state the objective of the article. give data or statistic, examples and reference so that others can read and make the finally judgement.
Why are bigger tank better than smaller one besides the one we all know which factors we can manupulate to keep an excellent tank small tank. Is there other factors that we just don't have control our that makes smaller tank disaster for aquarist. That what I like to see in the next instalment of this article.
Rohn
The topic on this thread why bigger tank are better than smaller ones. This is like saying that formula one car is better than stock car or Honda Civic is better than Ferrrari F-550. True, bigger tank are more forgiving and have more stable water chemistry but small tank can be as good as the biggest tank. What this thread advice beginner is not to buy small tank but buy a bigger one because they better. Far from the truth. Please give advice but the correct one. I have seing even our moderator give wrong advice to some of the beginner.
If you are going to write an article do some research and explain in detail with reference and evidence why bigger tanks are better. Clearly state the objective of the article. give data or statistic, examples and reference so that others can read and make the finally judgement.
Why are bigger tank better than smaller one besides the one we all know which factors we can manupulate to keep an excellent tank small tank. Is there other factors that we just don't have control our that makes smaller tank disaster for aquarist. That what I like to see in the next instalment of this article.
Rohn
What you might think is right may be what another sees as wrong and vice versa Rohn. It goes both ways. You don't agree with this topic and that is fine, nothing in the world wrong with that. But by saying that this is wrong are you not doing what you accuse others of? If you want to point fingers of data, where is your data to suport your side? Feel free to start your own post for that data if you wish. This board is not a gathering of scientific minds or people. Those who write articles here would do well to remember who the readers are going to be, and how to keep the readers attention. Not saying that any person on this site is stupid, far from it, but many of us can not understand a lot of scientific garble, and for those new in the hobby it can be quite a big turn off I'm sure.
All I can get from your post is an attack of people who are tring to help others. I don't see how that is helpfull at all or to anyone.
All I can get from your post is an attack of people who are tring to help others. I don't see how that is helpfull at all or to anyone.
Thanks for the feedback. rohnds, I see your point, but I think your defense lies in emotion and not the "whole" truth. You say that new folks are ok buying small tanks, and I disagree. You don't need scientific evidence to disprove this. Just hang out at Petsmart on Saturday for a while and watch people bring in their dead fish, explaining why their oscar died in their 10g. Furthermore, if you want a scientific research article, that I can do...if you'd like to compensate me for it. My general advice from years of experience is free...and I'd be more than happy to point you to some good books.
You see guys, Xmas is coming up soon, and I'd hate to see people lose their fish and their interest a few days later. I know that there are many folks out there that hate to read. A couple of my very best friends hate to do it, and would rather trust someone to give them good advice in person. However, I think we all know that good advice from the "experts" at the LFS is slim. Enter the forums! Interactive advice at no charge. You have the option to read people's opinions, or disregard them. That I can't control as a poster of a general article, nor will I try. Nevertheless, everyone will make their mistakes, that I can assure you. All I hope for is to curb a few of the mistakes that should be avoided by a simple bit of reading. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I am not by any means encouraging people to run out and buy a 125g tank, but if I can get a person to upgrade from a 5g to a 29g, then this article has fulfilled its purpose.
I think the issue is people are hesitant to "upgrade" nowadays (and I don't blame them). I work in the retail industry, and in a relatively expensive market. To those that have no experience and don't know the difference, or even know how to tell the difference, "upgrades" mean nothing but more money to these folks. But to the experienced person, there is quite the difference. It may come down to simple conveniences, but that's something the knowledgeable enthusiast will pay for.
While it's good to allow a person to learn from experience (experience is the best teacher after all), sometimes it's beneficial to skip a few steps. For the inexperienced person, just don't expect your hand to be held the entire way. Put the strategy guide down and play the game. The best thing you could do for yourself is learn how to be a good learner!
I purposely make "mistakes" just to see if I can recover from them, and how quickly and efficiently I can correct the mistake, ultimately discovering, recognizing, and eliminating various factors along the way. Most are bothered by mistakes, and through various forms of positive and negative reinforcement, will refuse to make the same mistake twice. You can't help anyone with a closed mind. Do you truly know why you've chosen the paths you've taken?
Never say never, but never not listen to advice. Question everything, but never shut yourself off. I suppose this is your prologue.
You see guys, Xmas is coming up soon, and I'd hate to see people lose their fish and their interest a few days later. I know that there are many folks out there that hate to read. A couple of my very best friends hate to do it, and would rather trust someone to give them good advice in person. However, I think we all know that good advice from the "experts" at the LFS is slim. Enter the forums! Interactive advice at no charge. You have the option to read people's opinions, or disregard them. That I can't control as a poster of a general article, nor will I try. Nevertheless, everyone will make their mistakes, that I can assure you. All I hope for is to curb a few of the mistakes that should be avoided by a simple bit of reading. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I am not by any means encouraging people to run out and buy a 125g tank, but if I can get a person to upgrade from a 5g to a 29g, then this article has fulfilled its purpose.
I think the issue is people are hesitant to "upgrade" nowadays (and I don't blame them). I work in the retail industry, and in a relatively expensive market. To those that have no experience and don't know the difference, or even know how to tell the difference, "upgrades" mean nothing but more money to these folks. But to the experienced person, there is quite the difference. It may come down to simple conveniences, but that's something the knowledgeable enthusiast will pay for.
While it's good to allow a person to learn from experience (experience is the best teacher after all), sometimes it's beneficial to skip a few steps. For the inexperienced person, just don't expect your hand to be held the entire way. Put the strategy guide down and play the game. The best thing you could do for yourself is learn how to be a good learner!
I purposely make "mistakes" just to see if I can recover from them, and how quickly and efficiently I can correct the mistake, ultimately discovering, recognizing, and eliminating various factors along the way. Most are bothered by mistakes, and through various forms of positive and negative reinforcement, will refuse to make the same mistake twice. You can't help anyone with a closed mind. Do you truly know why you've chosen the paths you've taken?
Never say never, but never not listen to advice. Question everything, but never shut yourself off. I suppose this is your prologue.
This is not my post. I never said smaller tanks are better than big one or vice versa. So therefore I don't have to prove anything. I think we are comparing apples and oranges. Someone here wrote an article saying that smaller tanks are better than bigger tanks. I aggree to a certain extent. But to generalize this is not wise. Many(not me) have kept successfully smaller tanks for year without ay problem.
First my defense doesn't lie in emotions but rather I am being analytical.
I think if you understand the basic of keeping an aquarium you could easily keep 10 gallon tank without any problem. The idea is to learn. If this knowledge comes from either first learning before starting the hobby or learning as you go along from mistakes, trials and errors. If you learn from mistake you will never make that same mistake again since you know what the consequences are and know how to avoid it and the reason for your mistake. Here is good example although it has nothing to with fish. the Apollo I exploded killing 3 astronaunts due to air mixture inside the cabin. Scientist assume that you need high Oxygen rich enviroment for the astronaunts to survive. After this tragedy the oxygen content in Apollo and schuttle cabin are merely 12 to 16% of the atmosphere. Lesson well learned from mistakes, although this one is costly.
Many of us are parents and we have small kids ( I have 2 years old and 2 teenage daughters). Everyone of our tanks I had setup is a scientific experiments where they have learned from reading and hands on(i.e. mistake, trial and errors). This is great way to teach kids about science.
Rohn
First my defense doesn't lie in emotions but rather I am being analytical.
I think if you understand the basic of keeping an aquarium you could easily keep 10 gallon tank without any problem. The idea is to learn. If this knowledge comes from either first learning before starting the hobby or learning as you go along from mistakes, trials and errors. If you learn from mistake you will never make that same mistake again since you know what the consequences are and know how to avoid it and the reason for your mistake. Here is good example although it has nothing to with fish. the Apollo I exploded killing 3 astronaunts due to air mixture inside the cabin. Scientist assume that you need high Oxygen rich enviroment for the astronaunts to survive. After this tragedy the oxygen content in Apollo and schuttle cabin are merely 12 to 16% of the atmosphere. Lesson well learned from mistakes, although this one is costly.
Many of us are parents and we have small kids ( I have 2 years old and 2 teenage daughters). Everyone of our tanks I had setup is a scientific experiments where they have learned from reading and hands on(i.e. mistake, trial and errors). This is great way to teach kids about science.
Rohn