Fish compatibility suggestions?

[KingLeerUK]

I have recently returned to the ranks of the Aquarium Owners and have put together my first tank in approximately 10 years. During my teenage years I owned 6 aquariums of various sizes and populations, from 10 gallon tetra-only setups to a 40-long angelfish habitat.

To assist with your recommendations, let me provide some background:

Recently I came into a second-hand 55 gallon aquarium and have configured it as follows:
- undergravel filter
- 2x Penguin 660 powerheads
- AquaClear 300 power filter
- 300w heater
- full hood (custom cut from lexan) with fluorescent lighting

The only initial requirement (from my girlfriend) was that we would get a Black Ghost Knife. Thus, I setup the aquarium with several large pieces of driftwood and obtained slate pieces to construct "caves" and several other hiding spots throughout the tank. The tank has a backline of plastic plants with other plastic and cloth replica pieces throughout to give a natural look. I am using a medium black gravelbed of 3" in the rear sloping to 2" in the front. Eventually I would like to transition to real plants as the setup matures.

The water here comes out of the tap at 7.6pH, but filtration, some pH down and the driftwood works it down to a stable 7.0pH.

To cycle the aquarium I borrowed 10 hardy guppies who all survived the water setup (and apparently flourished because several were born) and have now moved back to their original home in a friend's aquarium. The Black Ghost (4" long) was introduced after 4 weeks and immediately acclimated. He was taking food out of my hand on the third day and handfeeding is now a daily ritual. The BGK has earned the name "Wiggles".

A week later I "inherited" a 15" plecostomus from a friend's tank (named "Biscuit"). The pleco had long outgrown his 30 gallon residence and had stopped being as efficient at controlling algae there. I have read that this is common for plecos as they get to larger sizes? In any case, I'm still experimenting with getting him to eat. I tried cuccumber the other evening but it was untouched after being in the tank overnight. I have tried Warley's algae pellets but they appear to go uneaten. Last night I hung a piece of lettuce in the tank and this morning it had a few shredded areas but nothing of any substance. Any suggestions on feeding alternatives?

Back on topic, I am strongly considering building a school of Clown Loaches as I've always liked these types of fish. The question then becomes; what else to populate the aquarium with? I considered getting some Corys, but I fear they would compete with the pleco and loach for food on the bottom. Cichlids are mostly out because they tend to be a tad aggressive and I'm trying to make sure everybody gets along. What are some good mid-to-upper water fish that would work in my setup? I tend towards "unique" fish and don't have a problem catering to unique diets or paying a bit more for something different.

Yay, first post!

 

[FreshwaterJeff]

Welcome to MFT!

The first thing I would do is ditch the UG filter and get a canister. On a tank that size, it's well-worth the investment. Also, make sure the canister is rated at well over the 55 gallons you have -- you'll appreciate the extra filtration.

For reference, I have an Eheim 2215 on my 55 gallon.

I would think that a 15" pleco is too big for a 55-gallon tank. What does he look like? Can you match him to any pictures on PlanetCatfish::Welcome! The fact that he's not devouring the foods you are offering him makes me suspect he may not be a common, though I suppose he still could be... Did you blanch the cucumber before dropping it in? I'd also recommend zucchini over cucumber...

For a truly great clown loach school, a 55 is too small...they like to be in groups of a bare minimum of 3, and are really better off at 6-7 in a school or more. That's just too much fish for a 55 -- otherwise, I'd be keeping them, too! I'd watch cories around the BGK as well -- they could very easily become food.

Having never kept a BGK, I can't really make specific recommendations for tank mates -- but I will say that you're likely best off avoiding a true "community" tank with smaller tetras and the like because of the BGK's predatory lifestyle. Keep in mind that he could get upwards of a foot long before it's all said and done - maybe even up to 20" - but it does grow very slowly and should live for a long time.

I'd think something like a pair of Rainbow Cichlids (or something similar) and some larger (buenos aires, columbian, etc.) tetras as dither fish, and that's about it - maybe you could keep up the "oddities" theme and put a peacock or fire eel in there, too. Maybe even skip the cichlids and just go for the BGK, a peacock eel, and a school of large, quick tetras or giant danios. I'd also try to find a friend with a warm-water pond to donate that pleco to...

In fact, the more I think about it, here's what I think I'd do:

Asian Oddball/"Wet Pet" Biotope:
1 Black Ghost Knife
2 Peacock Eels or Fire Eels
12-15 Giant Danios

Edit: Ha! A great idea from me, except that BGK's are South American, not Asian. Whoops! Regardless, I still like that stocking plan...Since we're not staying true to an Asian biotope, you could replace the danios with Buenos Aires or other large tetras...or you could ditch the eels, switch to tetras, get a handful of angels, give it a go with some larger cories since the BGK will grow slowly, and make yourself a South American biotope...

 

[Katie217]

I'd personally leave the BGK as the only bottom dweller in the tank since they get so large. For middle-top fish, you could do a few angel fish and like Jeff said some larger tetras like Buenos Aires or Columbian Tetras.

 

[MissFishy]

I would also recommend ditching the UGF ASAP. UGF's just gather gunk under the filter plate and provide barely any filtration. Take it out now before you really get your tank up and running.

If you want something rare and interesting, how about some congo tetras? They are stunning and would be too large to become food for the knife. I would leave the knife on the bottom by himself. Here's my stocking plan:
BGK - bottom
School of Congo Tetras - mid level
Perhaps something that would head more towards the surface, look at hatchets, guppies, maybe golden wonder killi.

Welcome to the tank!

 

[KingLeerUK]

Many thanks for the replies thus far!

I have read the debate regarding undergravel filters, the pros and cons. I really decided to go with one because in my previous fishkeeping experience they were always reliable, and combined with regular water changes and gravel vaccuming I was always able to maintain healthy tanks. I'm a big believer in cycling fresh water through the tank and perform a 5~10 gallon exchange every weekend. I attribute my continued null ammonia readings to this practise and the fish seem to appreciate it.

I supplemented the UGF with the AquaClear 300 power filter (which is overrated for my tank size) and it has done a stunning job of keeping the water clear. Despite soaking my driftwood for about a week, it still gave me a little "tea" colour in the tank after it was placed. Adding the AquaClear had the water back to crystaline in less than 2 days.

Regarding fish selections, I had considered Danios as a mid-water selection but have never kept them before. A little reading shows them to be relatively undemanding fish.

I kind of had my heart set on a group of ~6-8 Clown Loaches, starting off with some 2"-3" specimens and letting them grow into the tank for a few years. By the time they are ready for bigger living quarters I hope to have moved to a larger home and would then be able to supply them with a proper 100+ gallon setup. Without wanting to sound selfish, I justify this in that the clowns at the local fish store would still be better off in my tank with the promise of a better future than parted off singly to the casual aquarist looking for a single colourful fish. I feel the same in a way about the pleco, he's better off now with 55 gallons than he was with 30 before. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with larger accomodations right now. I'll get some pictures of him uploaded soon to see if anyone can help identifying him.

Would a couple of butterfly fish be compatible with the current tank makeup? From what I have read they tend to confine themselves to the surface and disregard the goings-on below them. I have no plans to keep small tetras or other such fish that might be mistaken as snacks.

How about gouramis? I've kept them in the past and they always seem to be reasonable tank mates.

The Black Ghost Knife has thus far shown no interest in the few remaining guppy "starter" fish that I haven't managed to net for return to my friend. At 4" he could probably only take fry at this point. He LOVES to eat freeze-dried bloodworms from my fingers and comes whipping up out of his cave as soon as he hears my hand break the water. He's also partial to tubiphex worms and has scavenged shrimp pellets off the bottom. He's definitely a healthy eater!

 

[MissFishy]

Congo tetras aren't "small" as they get up to 8", but I've usually seen them sell around 3-4". Congo Tetra - Phenacogrammus interruptus Here's one picture, but it doesn't do them justice at all, google some more images. I thought you were interested in "rare" fish? Danios?

Keep in mind that even if you "rescue" some clown loaches from your LFS, you're only upping the demand for them, which means in turn that more clown loaches will suffer in inadequate aquariums.

Do some more up to date research on the UGF's. They really are very old fashioned at this point and entirely unnecessary, unless of course you set up a reverse flow. Some people pay good money for that "tea" color in the water.

You could probably get away with two gouramis in that size tank without issue. I'm no expert on butterfly fish, but I hear they're inactive and boring.

You really should be doing more than a 5-10 gallon water change once a week on a 55 gallon. The typical exchange is 20-30% of the gallonage per week, but since you don't have many fish in there as of now, you should be fine for the time being. Keep an eye on the nitrate levels.

 

[big54bob]

I would sugest on getting a bigger tank like a 120gal. The BGK will will like it.

 

[VirgoWolf]

Also when it comes to the UGF, the inefficency isn't all you should be concearned about... you say you want to go planted, plants and UGFs don't mix well.

 

[KingLeerUK]

Despite this tank being setup for over 5 weeks now I just had my first blip on the ammonia test (0.5ppm). I tested for both Nitrate and Nitrate, both show 0ppm. I had thought my tank was fully cycled but from what I understand my ammonia levels should be steady at 0ppm. I am holding off on introducing any more fish until I do my next water change on Saturday (20 gallons).

The rep at the LFS said I shouldn't change water "too often" but that contradicts much of what I've read here, especially with regard to new tanks where small partial water changes are recommended.

I'm still not sure if the pleco is eating. Last night I tried some blanched zucchini and yellow squash but he didn't touch it. I think Romaine lettuce is next on the menu. There has been a lot of fish debris on the floor of the tank, without being too graphic it's "long and dark", much more substantial than what I see the BGK producing which makes me think it must be the pleco which would imply he's eating something. I've made a habit of pulling 2-3 gallons out every few days just to get the solid wastes off the floor of the tank.

Back to fish recommendations, I am fairly certain I'll be going with some Marbled Hatchetfish for the top-water dwellers and the Congo Tetras for mid-water.

I'd love to get a larger aquarium someday (definitely after moving in a year or so) at which point I'll setup something sans-UGF and accommodating to fish growth potential. For now, I simply don't have the floor real estate to bring on a 120 gallon where I'm living. Perhaps I can convince the girlfriend we don't need one of the couches...

 

[Big Vine]

The rep at the LFS said I shouldn't change water "too often" but that contradicts much of what I've read here, especially with regard to new tanks where small partial water changes are recommended.

The thing is, you need ammonia to be present in order to ensure that the cycling actually takes place. If you keep removing all traces of ammonia, the beneficial bacteria responsible for the breakdown of the ammonia into a less toxic form will take an inordinately long time to colonize...which means that cycling the tank will take much longer than necessary.

I'd say don't let ammonia go above about 1.0 PPM, and don't let nitrItes go above about 2.0 PPM, and you should do fine. The real indicator of a cycled tank lies not only in 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte readings, but also in a rising of nitrAte levels. Anything less than about 5-10 PPM nitrAtes in a non-planted tank, and I'd say you're still not done with the cycling process. Let it get up to at least 10-20 PPM before jumping to any conclusions.

BV

 

[KingLeerUK]

I ran water tests again today:

Ammonia: 0.5ppm
NitrAte: 0ppm
NitrIte: 0ppm
pH: 7.2

The tank has been setup for 6 weeks now but I'm still not completely certain that it has fully cycled. I currently have only the plecostomus, the BGK and a 3 guppies that are masters of evasion.

Is there anything I can do to help the cycle process along without hurting the fish or necessitating their removal?

 

[Big Vine]

Get some established gravel and/or filter media from someone you know, or see if they'll give you some at the LFS. You can add it to your tank in a piece of pantyhose if you don't want it mixing in with your current substrate. Place it right underneath of the main current (filter outflow). It can be removed after several weeks, once the tank is cycled.

BV

 

[KingLeerUK]

I ran water tests again last night:

Ammonia: ~0.75 - 1.0ppm (hard to tell with test kit)
NitrAte: 0ppm
NitrIte: 0ppm
pH: 7.2

55 gallon tank

I have been doing 15 gallon water changes every 3 days to try and keep the ammonia in check. I obtained a few handfuls of gravel from a fully established tank to try and seed the biological filter (this was a week ago) but apparently this hasn't helped. My tank has been setup for 8 weeks now and by all appearances has not cycled. This is becoming very frustrating, especially since I'm trying to keep the Black Ghost alive. He's still eating and showing normal behaviour, but has 'faded' (see my other thread).

Is there anything else I can do? Moving the fish to another aquarium really isn't an option.

 

[MissFishy]

You really need to get some filter media or more gravel from a cycled tank. You are right, it appears that your tank has just begun to cycle since there is no nitrite yet and only ammonia. My suggestion: go to your LFS or best friend and ask to "borrow" a large amount of gravel or their filter pad/sponge. Put this gravel or filter material into a bucket of aged TANK water and transport it to your tank. Do a large water change, 50%, and add the filter media to either your filter or bury it in the gravel. For the borrowed gravel, put it in a pantyhose or several panty hose and bury those in the gravel in your tank as well. Hopefully some of the bacterial from the established tanks will spread to your current items. Keep a close watch on your water parameters.

 

[Kandoom]

You might also want to take a nylon stocking and pop some ammo chips in and place it within one of your filters- this will mitigate some of the ammonia with additional carbon without resorting to more chemical dependent methods like ammo clear which is ultimately self-defeating. There's another brand of black chips that I prefer, but I can't seem to find it listed- I'll take a look when I get home- those have worked very nicely in the past.

Pond Chemical Filtration Media & Ammonia Remover: Ammo Chips

I've got a 55 Gallon as well, and even managed 4 clown loaches, also some congo tetras which I do recommend, but again, I made these choices back in more novice days when fish stores won't tell you what might be a problem down the road in terms of growth.

By the by, clowns pretty much get along with everyone. They are agressive eaters but have never hurt any of their tankmates- they simply pursue their algae pellets tenaciously- they don't bother the panda cories or other coryadorus I have. They don't even touch my rummi-nose tetras.

 

[Mahamotorworks]

If you are getting ammonia then your tank is not Cycled. As BV mention you need the ammonia as a food source to further the Cycle along. As far as stocking goes. After waiting for the cycle to complete. I would add some nicly colored fish. Danios are a great suggestion. Other then that I dont have any suggestions.

MAHA

 

[Seleya]

My tank has been setup for 8 weeks now and by all appearances has not cycled. This is becoming very frustrating, especially since I'm trying to keep the Black Ghost alive. He's still eating and showing normal behaviour, but has 'faded' (see my other thread).

Is there anything else I can do? Moving the fish to another aquarium really isn't an option.

We need to slow down here.... Actually, with the change in bioload, your tank in its current state has only been going for 4 weeks.

You initially cycled the tank with 10 guppies. 4 weeks is a short amount of time to cycle such a large tank with such small fish -- I am wondering how far along the actual cycle was. The sheer bioload of 10 guppies is unlikely to achieve much of an ammonia level in a 55 in 4 weeks, never mention actually fully cycle it. You may wish to doublecheck your test kits.

You then added a couple of larger fish. The pleco alone would have thrown any cycled tank expecting a 10 guppy bioload into a cycle to some degree. What are you feeding the knife? You mentioned regularly cleaning up debris but could there be food debris as well also contributing to the ammonia load?

What has been your maintenance schedule? Water changes, changing filter pads, feeding, sorts of foods offered........ Have you tested your tap water and could you provide those readings as well, please?

BTW, Aquaclears are excellent filters but your tannins disappeared because of the fresh carbon in the filter. I'd encourage you to reconsider the ugf as well or at least reverse the powerheads on it but to each their own, some people swear by them. For the time being, the less disruption of the substrate, the better. I would suggest getting a second bag of the noodles for the Aquaclear and replace the carbon with those. You can pop the carbon into the tank for the time being so as not to remove any of the beneficial bacteria from the tank environment.

BTW, please, no more pH Down.... You don't need it and it can be stressful for the fish. Just toss it, forget about it and you'll be better off.

 

[KingLeerUK]

I had been doing a 10-15 gallon water change every 3-4 days to help control the Ammonia up until mid-week last week. Water changes are done via gravel vacuum, I tend to get about 50% of the tank floor (moving stones and plants) for a 15 gallon change). At that point, I purchased a bottle of Cycle at the LFS and dosed the tank after one final 15 gallon change.

I tested the water again on Sunday and happily the Ammonia has started to come down, probably 0.25ppm but it is difficult to tell with the test kit. Similarly, I believe I'm finally seeing a small blip on the NitrIte reading, but again it's difficult to tell. Still no NitrAte to speak of. Regardless, I did a 25 gallon change on Sunday and redosed the tank with Cycle and some fish stress solution. It may just be my eyes but it seems like the black ghost is a little darker than before.

My tap water comes out at pH 7.6, with no discernable ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in it. When I prep the water for the tank (in a clean, purpose only 5 gallon bucket) I match water temperatures with a small thermometer to within 1 degree before adding. For each 5 gallons I add one teaspoon of aquarium salt to replenish electrolytes, plus de-chlorinator and stress solution. I have been adding 10 drops of pH Down to each bucket to try and match the existing aquarium pH which is adjusted down due to the driftwood.

I've only changed out the activated carbon filter on the AquaClear once (last week). I rinse the mechanical filter (sponge) every 3 weeks with aquarium water but it never seems to get terribly dirty.

I never overfeed and remove uneaten items as I see them. Foods offered are:
Bloodworms (fed by hand to the BGK, as much as he wants daily)
Tubiphex worms (freeze dried) break off 1/2 a cube and let pieces loose for the guppies and the knife to search out, feed 2x a week
Flake food (only eaten by the guppies, once daily, 3-5 flakes only)
Shrimp pellets (given once a week at night to give the pleco some variety)
Algae tablets (given 3x a week at night for the pleco, guppies seem to like searching for these in the dark by smell)

The pleco also gets a lettuce leaf once a week (at midnight) and cuccumber once a week, anything uneaten gets removed in the morning (7am).

 

[jediinthedark]

Getting a blip on the Nitrite is good. You know you're close when you start to see activity on the Nitrate card.
It sounds like you are doing everything just fine. Were you able to get some gravel from a friend?
Perhaps you can get some from your Guppy Friend. If not gravel anything will work (as long as it's been in the tank a while). Maybe you could borrow a plant or other ornament. If you can introduce good bacteria into the tank then the tank will fully cycle very quicly.

 

[MissFishy]

If your "cycle" is what I'm thinking of, the one that supposedly adds "good bacteria" to the water, it is a rip off. The supposed bacteria in those bottles is long dead unless it has been refridgerated. The only product you should consider buying to cycle a tank is Bio Spira, and then only if it has been refridgerated, otherwise the bacteria will be useless. What type of water test kit are you using? Drops are much more accurate than strips. I would not be using the salt with the knife fish. Most fish store employees are full of BS and get you to buy way too many products you don't need. I would cut out everything but the water conditioner, you are making your water changes much harder on yourself and the constant changes in PH and water make up are probably just stressing out your fish even more.