BV's 75 gal. - Journal

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
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Florida
#1
Curious to know how an oscar, salvini, convict, and firemouth would get along in a 75 gal. tank?
We're about to find out with my setup (disclaimer: your mileage may vary if you attempt this in your own tanks)...

I'll update this journal on a regular basis and provide in-depth accounts of the tank dynamics.
It will serve as a log primarily based on the interactions I'm observing between the fish. It will also track the growth/development of each invidual fish and any shifts that might happen in the pecking order.

The tank:


Tank inhabitants (measurements given are total length (TL):
Tiger Oscar (7") - sex not yet determined


Convict (4") - male


Salvini (3") - male


Firemouth (3") - sex not yet determined, but I'm leaning toward male based on strong coloration


Enjoy the journey, and thanks for following along. Questions/comments welcome, as always. :)

BV
 

jcpaisley

Medium Fish
Sep 19, 2007
70
0
0
Atlanta, GA
#4
*BOUNCINGS Looks wonderful! I'm really liking the plant over the pot!*BOUNCINGS

Great to see the firemouth out and about! And the convict is looking much better...less tattered and torn.

Can't wait to hear more...
 

JWright

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
2,192
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Snowy Upstate New York
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#8
Completely overstocked? No, not at all.

The bioload the fish are putting on the tank is minimal given the water volume and filtration (I assume you're running a couple good sized filters, right BV?), and not really a concern, IMO.

Aggression could certainly be an issue, but that's really up to the temperment of the individual fish. Seems like it's aquascaped well, and everybody has a territory.

Does it push the boundries of conventional stocking? A bit. Is it crazy...? No, I don't think so...

~JW
 

Katie217

Superstar Fish
Jul 15, 2006
2,494
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Florida
#10
BV, dont get me wrong...The fish look great! That convict is a real stunner...
But cant you even see what I mean? Lets factor in adult size
oscar 12" +
convict (males get to like 7-8", correct?)
firemouth 6"
salvini (cant remember off the top of my head, but I think its around 7-8")

And, this is also how I think of it...

12" oscar needs 55gal minimum. A 75gal is only 20gallons larger. Could a convict, salvini and firemouth live in only 20gallons of water? (I'm talking about bioload, not dimensions here)

Dont forget about agression. Why would you WANT a firemouth to be unhappy, and at the bottom of the pecking order? I would want it to be as happy as possible, and not have to be picked on.

I just wish that you'd consider my points. I personally dont like it when (men more often then not) have to "push the limits" just (for what it seems like) their ego only. Now, BV, I'm not saying you're doing this for your ego, but it kinda sounds like that when I read the first post.

I am in no means trying to be offencefull here, BV. I think that this time around, we can keep it in a mature discussion if you want.
 

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Feb 10, 2006
854
2
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Bay Area, CA
#11
This thread was created as BVs journal. I think its a bit inappropriate to shoot down his proposal when the results haven't pointed to whether or not this is possible.

Want to start a discussion or talk about resealing your tank? Start a new thread. I really would like to read updates and positive comments, not a debate.

Thanks.
 

JWright

Superstar Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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Snowy Upstate New York
www.cnytheater.com
#13
Fighterfish, I have to agree with Katie that her comments are certainly within the purpose of this thread, especially given BV's request in his original post.

To that discussion...

55 gallons is not a "bioload" requirement, it's a swimming space requirement, and as long everybody has a territory, I don't think anyone is gonna feel too picked on. Being lower on the pecking order is a natural order for most fish... even fish that "want" to be on top aren't always there...

Not for nothing, but starting a whole new discussion about resealing your tank is pretty blatant thread hijacking...

~JW
 

FroggyFox

Forum Manager
Moderator
May 16, 2003
8,589
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Colorado
#15
Well I don't necessarily agree with her question about her tank being in this thread. Katie can feel free to make her comments but lets not forget that this is BV's thread so if he chooses not to agree with the comments then so be it. Everyone chill please?
 

IDunnoWhy

Superstar Fish
Nov 16, 2006
1,058
2
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53
Deerfield, WI
#17
Perhaps anyone who feels that BV doesn't have his fishes' best interests in mind should check out this thread again...
Exactly the point I was just gonna make, JW....... *crazysmil

Now back to topic.....(And some questions :p )

When you feed those guys, do they all eat together? I've noticed in my Severum tank, that even though the largest Sev, will often pick on the smaller fish, he does seem to allow them to eat at the same time as him, yet in my old Convict tank, there seemed to be a clear pecking order, how do your Salvini & Firemouth fit into the Convict/Oscar pecking order?

Do you find the fish chasing constantly? or is it more subdued in there than that?

Do you have any plans for dither fish to spread the aggression? (I recall you talking about that) Although an additional school of dithers may be too much for the tank's capacity huh?

Do all 4 of those fish have the same dietary requirements, or do you have to supplement individual fish?
 

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
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Florida
#18
First off, thanks everyone for the feedback.
Secondly, I'll address some earlier concerns brought up by Katie, and then I'll move on to IDunnoWhy's questions...just to keep things roughly in chronological order.

JW addressed most of Katie's concerns, so there isn't a whole lot for me to add. This is where a video would be extremely helpful, because it lets you witness all of the intricacies of the tank dynamics firsthand. It will allow you to get a 'feel' for how these fish are living out their lives.

I will post one later today, so stay tuned! :D


IDunnoWhy said:
When you feed those guys, do they all eat together?
Feeding time takes place in much the same manner as you described of your severums. The oscar is first to start nabbing up pellets and any other food offerings, but the convict quickly follows suit. Convict 'cleans up' after the oscar quite a bit by collecting a large portion of the food that the oscar spews out of his gills. These two are often side-by-side when feeding, and the convict does the classic sideways/tilted submissive position whenever the oscar approaches. Occasionally he'll dart off if he feels the oscar is looking particularly menacing, but mostly they seem to co-habitate quite peacefully together.

While this is taking place, the salvini slowly approaches from behind his flower pot. He colors-up a fair bit, sticks himself out plainly in the open, and nabs pellets from the surface of the water. Oscar and convict ignore him for the most part. Sometimes the convict will give chase, but the salvini always has a chance to feed a fair bit before this happens.

Meanwhile, the firemouth can be seen quickly darting out from his cave and scavenging-up any bits of food that happen to drift nearby. For the most part he does remain hidden though, as a great deal of food scraps often end up drifting into the cave without him having to leave in order to feed. Once in a while the oscar and/or convict will catch a glimpse of him sneaking out, and they'll give chase. However, he always ducks under cover well before they can get close.

All in all, neither the oscar nor convict really prevent anyone else from feeding in any way.

IDunnoWhy said:
Do you find the fish chasing constantly? or is it more subdued in there than that?
Much more subdued. And again, the video will show this better than I can describe.
Essentially the oscar and convict can be thought of as one unit. They co-exist peacefully, and the convict freely submits to the oscar whenever they get 'too close' together. It is now quite rare that I will see the oscar give any sort of chase in the convict's direction.

The salvini ventures out into the open more than he used to.
He is a fair bit smaller than the oscar and con though, so he does keep his distance. Oscar appears to have mostly given up on chasing him, but the convict will end up chasing after him most of the time. When that happens, the sal simply gets out of the way and/or ducks for cover, at which point the con moves about his business.

The firemouth stays in his cave 99% of the time.
Occasionally I'll see him venture out to the nearby rockpile to scavenge, but he promptly retreats whenever the oscar and/or convict approach. As a result, the firemouth and salvini have about zero contact. I am envisioning moving the firemouth before too long because of his apparent reclusiveness. In the long-run I have my doubts that he'd be able to hang in there with his other tankmates. In time I think the oscar would completely ignore him, but he may not be so fortunate when it comes to the con and sal.

IDunnoWhy said:
any plans for dither fish to spread the aggression?

...Do all 4 of those fish have the same dietary requirements, or do you have to supplement individual fish?
Nope, no plans for dithers.
I just don't think they're necessary based on what I'm seeing in this setup.

All of the fish in this tank share pretty much the same dietary requirements.
The oscar and convict mostly eat pellets. Salvini comes out and nabs a pellet or two as well. I also include flakes to help supplement feedings, as I find that they tend to get down to the bottom quicker where sal---and especially the firemouth---are able to scavenge on them.


Keep your eyes peeled for that video I promised! *DRUMMER*
BV
 

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Orion

Ultimate Fish
Moderator
Feb 10, 2003
5,803
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Kentucky
www.thefishcave.net
#19
Aren't most of these fish juveniles? Seems a bit premature to make such assumptions on long term living arrangements if thats the case. Not saying it won't work, I've seen much more 'odd couple' tanks and it's worked out wonderfully. Best of luck though.
 

Katie217

Superstar Fish
Jul 15, 2006
2,494
5
0
Florida
#20
Two more comments I thought of...

1) I clearly remember BV stating when he got Triton, that he wanted an "Oscar Only Tank" Why the change of heart?

2) It kinda seems like when you got the 75, you thought that it was MUCH larger then it actually is. While a 75gal is larger then a 55, its not much bigger. Thats mainly why I think that the whole situation is overstocked, and not thought out properly. I honestly think, the salvini especially, was a "spurr of the moment" purchase. But that being said, I'd like to see the video you have in store for us. I'm interested to see how they all interact together, even if I think its overstocked and wont work out in the long run.