New empty tank,any advice??

[findingNemo]

Hello,thanks for reading.

I have had tropical tanks before,but to be honest the last one I had up and running was a few years ago. Someone brought my son a goldfish at the beginning of the year,which has progressed from a small little plastic (container) tank,to a nice bigger set-up and a couple of extra friends. I now have the 'bug' again for tropicals.
Firstly I treated myself to a birthday present from me last month,a new tank.
Its still sitting emptyin my living room(Not even a drop of water in it)
Been doing some reading up this time on tropicals,(Dont know how all my other tanks before thrived,with how I un-knowingly treated them)

Anyway, just wanted to pick a few brains, Does/has anyone used the solution you can buy to speed up the cycle process? What are the pro's/con's? Or should they be avoided?
Also, would using one/two of the goldfish I already have,be alright to put in the tank for it to cycle with?(Minus the heater) or is this a really bad idea?
I've been checking the goldfish tank,and my normal tap water which seems to have a constant PH of 7.5,so I should be alright there,lol.

Sorry for the story............

 

[punkrockfish]

The thing with using the goldfish you already have is that you would be exposing them to the same dangers of putting any fish in a tank that is not cycled. Since you do have a tank already, you should have the bacteria needed to cycle a tank right in your home (unless cold water bacteria is somehow different from tropical). If possible, take some of the filter media from your goldfish tank, or some of the gravel and put it in a mesh bag, and put it into your new tank once you fill it up and have all the equipment. Then follow the cycling instructions (which can be found in a sticky on this site and MissFishy's signature). Having the bacteria there should speed up the process.

 

[GoldfishCareInformation]

Findingnemo,

To get the cycle set up quicker add some Cycle to the water in which you can get at any local pet store. Something everyone should do when setting up a new aquarium. I would also take about 25% of the water from your Goldfish tank you already have and put it in your new tank, the water already contains beneficial bacteria which any new tank set up needs.

Also what PunkRockFish said, if you can take some of the filter media from your goldfish tank too that would be good as well. Gravel is excellent form on beneficial bacteria. You need something that beneficial bacteria and colonies are already grown upon. Definitely a good thing to do.

 

[seastaar88]

how big is the new tank?? what kind of fish were you thinking about for it??

 

[d3sc3n7]

Well, punkrockfish beat me to it...but I was also going to say, that if you have a running tank right now....grab a handful or 3 of gravel and toss it in there. If its the same color as the gravel you have in the new tank, you can just leave it on the bottom.

So, I say fill up the new tank, get your heater and filter, what not up and running and dump in the gravel (or filter media) in the tank. Dont forget to treat the water with the de-chloranator (ok, I cant spell)

This past weekend, I set my 29GL back up. I had to get a refuge for my goldfish. So, I put about 3 handfuls of gravel, and a few plants from my 55GL tank in there. Between that and the water treatment my tank leveled out VERY quickly!

Good luck,
-Jay

 

[findingNemo]

WOW! Cant believe how quickly all of you have replied.
Thank-You.

Firstly,the new tank is 31 GL, at the minute it has no gravel in it,(When I said the tank was empty,I meant it,lol)I was going to get the gravel tomorrow.(Still havent decided which colour I want to get,and the size of it) but like you've said,if I take some of the gravel from the goldfish tank and put it in a mesh bag of some kind,I can easily take it out later.(Will save the kids upset if Nemo,Sharky,Pebble or Finn,(Yes very original,lol) didnt make it)

Anyway,I think i've pretty much covered everything in terms of things to buy for the tank,(Except,gravel and fish)
Got all the essentials heater,filter etc, got dechlorinator,got food, new net,test kits and I did buy some of that cycle stuff (But haven't used it before thats why I wanted some opinions)

As for fish, the last tropical tank I had set up had all sorts in it,but looking into it a bit more recently, I dont know how they all survived.
I have been drawn this time towards the dwarf Gouramis,(Obviously not when I first get the tank filled) and was going to work around them in terms of other fish. Dont know about any live bearing sorts,as I had them before and got totally over run with babies,(I knew someone else then who had a tank that took some off my hands,but I dont this time around)
Any suggestions there would also be welcome *twirlysmi
Thanks again,Chloe

 

[punkrockfish]

If you can return the cycle stuff i would. The only one i have ever heard good things about is biospira, and if you don't buy it refrigerated then it is useless.

 

[MissFishy]

Dear GoldFishCareInformation,

You need to read up on your info before shelling out inaccurate advice. The "Cycle" product is generally worthless. It will not add helpful bacteria to a fish tank. The only way bacteria can stay alive is to be refridgerated, which "Cycle" is not. Second, tank water from an established tank will do nothing to help cycle a new tank. Only filter media/ornaments/other things with surfaces that have been in a cycled tank will help to cycle a new tank.

 

[FroggyFox]

If you'd like the tank to be safe for fish immediately, your best option is to locate a dealer that sells Bio-spira. Purchase that (make sure it is refrigerated and fresh) and then add to your tank and then follow the biospira directions and add fish immediately.

 

[findingNemo]

Thanks again for your input.
I think I impulse brought the 'cycle' stuff,it was only after buying it that I thought more about the pro's and con's to using it. Thats why I joined here too, to get some un-biased advice on things like that.
I think i'll forget about using the cycle stuff now you've confirmed my thoughts. I've done a bit more reading and MissFishy's page is really useful.

Im not going to use anything other than my existing gravel to cycle the tank,i'm usually really eager to set things all up,(Like last time) but i'm trying to do things the 'right' way this time.

Going to get the gravel tomorrow,so will probably get it up and running the weekend,(That way i'll have Christmas to take my mind off of watching an empty tank) I'm going to try to get hold of some ammonia and follow Iggy's Tank Cycle Recipe to totally fishless cycle. That way theres no casualties,and if I have to throw half a bottle of ammonia away at the end of it,at least its not a dead fish.

 

[GoldfishCareInformation]

Dear GoldFishCareInformation,

You need to read up on your info before shelling out inaccurate advice. The "Cycle" product is generally worthless. It will not add helpful bacteria to a fish tank. The only way bacteria can stay alive is to be refridgerated, which "Cycle" is not. Second, tank water from an established tank will do nothing to help cycle a new tank. Only filter media/ornaments/other things with surfaces that have been in a cycled tank will help to cycle a new tank.

MissFishy, kinda taken a jab at my knowledge here ouch Just kidding Just shedding out advice and information people can take it or leave it really. The thing is with opinions and reviews on products everyone has one. Thats why you see the war today as people don't agree on things. With products on the market the same thing.

Personally in my opinion I've worked with Cycle for years. I am the owner of Country Koi Fish Farm and I've been using this product for 10 years now. I breed fish and bring in thousands of fish a year and this is the product of my choice and its worked good for me, I personally like it. Yes your right about one thing beneficial bacteria does need to be refrigerated to stay alive. Once upon opening it needs to be put in the fridge or in other words if not, its completely useless.

Second of all adding tank water from a established aquarium will help as it does contain beneficial bacteria in the water. Why do you think it says when you perform a water change to re-ad cycle. It's because you were flushing some of the water that contained beneficial bacteria. You re-ad cycle to get the levels back to what they were normally and keeps things stable. The reason is because the water you just finished adding back to your aquarium had no beneficial bacteria. You took some out now you need to re-ad and replace it.

Yes, media and ornaments are good sources that contain beneficial bacteria as they have a place to grow and multiply. A good thing that grows beneficial bacteria on is that Lava rock which is a great source due to the pores in contains great place for them to grow.

Like I said before I am just here to help answer questions for people and the thing is on the internet you always need to get a second opinion on things and research. Am I saying I'm more right then you, not at all. This is just my opinion or review on the product. If people use it and have great results then great, if not there is always more products on the market to choose from.

Also after you saying to do more research on it I went ahead and did. If people want more info on cycle do a google search type in "pros and cons of Hagen Cycle" read up on it, and people can make their own choice on whether they want to go with Cycle or not. Best way to learn about products is to get reviews and opinions from other people and take all said into consideration before making that purchase.

 

[MissFishy]

No, sorry, water does not contain much if any beneficial bacteria for a new tank. Bacteria live on the surfaces of the tank, meaning the filter media, walls of the tank, ornaments, rocks, etc. Adding old water to a fish tank will only raise the nitrate levels, if anything. Any beneficial bacteria in the water will not be able to colonize on the walls of a tank if added in such small amounts to a new tank with new water.

You say that bacteria needs to be refrigerated, but then you say that unrefridgerated "cycle" is still useful? The product claims to "release beneficial bacteria after every water change or fish addition." But it's not refridgerated, so nothing is living in it as you admitted yourself? It IS supposed to help reduce the toxicity of ammonia/nitrite in the tank, but that does not solve any cycling issues.

By taking water out of the tank, you aren't taking bacteria out of the tank. The whole point is to keep nitrates down at a safe level. Since the bacteria live on the filter and other media, water changes don't affect the cycling process in established tanks.

When you post your advice to fish newbies on here, they are assuming you know what you're talking about as they obviously don't possess the knowledge themselves or they wouldn't be asking for it on a forum.

 

[findingNemo]

Hello again

MissFishy, kinda taken a jab at my knowledge here ouch Just kidding Just shedding out advice and information people can take it or leave it really. The thing is with opinions and reviews on products everyone has one. Thats why you see the war today as people don't agree on things. With products on the market the same thing

I think you're right there,that is the reason for me joining this forum,and I dont want to be the cause of any upset within it.
I'd also like to think i'm not a complete idiot and that I can make my own decisions based on ANY information i'm given, (Good or bad)

I have in the past had healthy tanks up and running,but I really dont know how I did,(Dont get me wrong the fish weren't totally neglected,but I dont know how the fish all survived) Thinking back I didnt do any cycling,the tank was well overcrowded,(Due to all the babies)I didnt monitor water changes etc.....BUT still the fish lived,never looked unhealthy and bred like rabbits.

This time around I want to start out on a better foot, I am swayed to the ammonia method because at least if I do that until the water is perfect for the fish I havent got to worry about them,(If I muck up I can empty the tank and start again,and all thats lost is the water.If I use cycle and muck up and have already added the fish i'll be losing a lot more)

But i've been out today looking for pure ammonia,and haven't had any luck.
Its apparently very easy and cheap to get hold of here in the UK but I tried in the places it was supposed to be found and couldn't get any.

On a lighter note,I got my gravel,*BOUNCINGS so until I find the ammonia,i'm still stuck.
Sorry if none of this makes sense,(I've wrote the same post 4 times and it hasn't appeared on the forum,)
Thanks again Chloe

 

[GoldfishCareInformation]

No, sorry, water does not contain much if any beneficial bacteria for a new tank. Bacteria live on the surfaces of the tank, meaning the filter media, walls of the tank, ornaments, rocks, etc. Adding old water to a fish tank will only raise the nitrate levels, if anything. Any beneficial bacteria in the water will not be able to colonize on the walls of a tank if added in such small amounts to a new tank with new water.

You say that bacteria needs to be refrigerated, but then you say that unrefridgerated "cycle" is still useful? The product claims to "release beneficial bacteria after every water change or fish addition." But it's not refridgerated, so nothing is living in it as you admitted yourself? It IS supposed to help reduce the toxicity of ammonia/nitrite in the tank, but that does not solve any cycling issues.

By taking water out of the tank, you aren't taking bacteria out of the tank. The whole point is to keep nitrates down at a safe level. Since the bacteria live on the filter and other media, water changes don't affect the cycling process in established tanks.

When you post your advice to fish newbies on here, they are assuming you know what you're talking about as they obviously don't possess the knowledge themselves or they wouldn't be asking for it on a forum.

Missfishy,

How are you today? Well you first said water from an aquarium does not contain any beneficial bacteria, but now you say doesn't contain much or any at all. Something we won't agree on so next.... lets move on.

Also I think you need to re-read my post as you never read it fully and understood it.

Here is my quote "Yes your right about one thing beneficial bacteria does need to be refrigerated to stay alive. Once upon opening it needs to be put in the fridge or in other words if not, its completely useless."

What I have to say to people about this, is think of a grocery store. How many products do you buy that is not refridgerated when you get them. But upon opening it needs to be refridgerated. There's quite a bit eh. Things are preserved, sealed but once exposed to air things totally change. That's my point on that.

And the comment about knowing what I'm talking about, well there is such a thing as constructive criticism and attacking. There is a difference between the both of us, I offered my opinion on the subject here and what you did was attack my intelligence. Well I know what I'm talking about, you know what your talking about, I have my opinion, you have yours so we are both right in our own eyes. We should just move on*celebrate .

Anyways great debate almost like an election *PEACE!* Anyways have a great holiday.

 

[d3sc3n7]

Well, my opinion here....I've since learned thats its bad to do so. But before I learned how to cycle a tank, I've started up many a tank, some even not of my own. I've gone from a dry tank to having fish in it, within a matter of hours, and I've still not lost a fish due to poor tank maintainence.

In fact, the 55GL I have now...I was so happy that I got it back up and running, that I set it up, filled it up, treated the water while it was in the tank...let the temp level out, and tossed about 5 fish in it. It's never had a spike, nor has a fish had a problem that wasnt cause by another fish.

So, although I do suggest running a cycle on your tanks...as it is the best idea. It is not a must.

-Jay

 

[GoldfishCareInformation]

Hello again


I think you're right there,that is the reason for me joining this forum,and I dont want to be the cause of any upset within it.
I'd also like to think i'm not a complete idiot and that I can make my own decisions based on ANY information i'm given, (Good or bad)

I have in the past had healthy tanks up and running,but I really dont know how I did,(Dont get me wrong the fish weren't totally neglected,but I dont know how the fish all survived) Thinking back I didnt do any cycling,the tank was well overcrowded,(Due to all the babies)I didnt monitor water changes etc.....BUT still the fish lived,never looked unhealthy and bred like rabbits.

This time around I want to start out on a better foot, I am swayed to the ammonia method because at least if I do that until the water is perfect for the fish I havent got to worry about them,(If I muck up I can empty the tank and start again,and all thats lost is the water.If I use cycle and muck up and have already added the fish i'll be losing a lot more)

But i've been out today looking for pure ammonia,and haven't had any luck.
Its apparently very easy and cheap to get hold of here in the UK but I tried in the places it was supposed to be found and couldn't get any.

On a lighter note,I got my gravel,*BOUNCINGS so until I find the ammonia,i'm still stuck.
Sorry if none of this makes sense,(I've wrote the same post 4 times and it hasn't appeared on the forum,)
Thanks again Chloe

Well thanks, others don't seem to think so but that's okay. Like I said before everyone is entitled to their opinion. Don't worry about that there are no hard feeling over on my side so all is okay. Sometimes on forums not always do people agree on things, that's what happens sometimes when everyone shares their information so that others may learn from others with constructive criticism. I think Missfishy knows quite a bit about the hobby and thumbs up to her, thats great, just something we didn't agree on thats all. But thats ok.

Yeah overcrowding a fish tank is probably one of the most common errors people do when adding fish to their tank. Well I hope you get that ammonia and hope that everything works out for you, for the best. Let me know how things go. Well hope you have some great holidays as well. *celebrate

 

[Lotus]

FindingNemo, you can try Boots (under Boots' own brand) for ammonia, or perhaps try Homebase, B&Q or an independent ironmonger shop, if you have one around. Boots apparently does sell it, but you might have to ask for it (and perhaps get some odd looks).

 

[punkrockfish]

I'm going to have to disagree with d3 on cycling not being a must...it is a must, because it is best for the fish. You might not lose any just tossing them in, but the fish will be under a lot of stress that you can't see. Fish can adapt to a lot of conditions, but that doesn't mean they should have to.

 

[seastaar88]

i agree w/ punkrockfish 100%. if you're taking the time to do research, etc, why not cycle, and do it right?

 

[GoldfishCareInformation]

Yeah I agree with punkrockfish. Cycling is a must really. He might have been lucky with this but he did say it is the best idea to cycle though. My suggestion people starting off new tanks is they better be safe then sorry.