Oscar and JD cuddling?

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#1
I have noticed that my oscar(vinny) and jd(jack) will cuddle with each other, the oscar will hover over the jd and vinny's bottom fin will rub on jack's upper fin. Other times the jd will charge at the oscar, as if he were gonna strike, the oscar doesn't move and jack will slow up and just rest his nose on the oscars side. It seems as though they enjoy each other's company, is this a normal behavior for fish, let alone two different types?
 

brian1973

Superstar Fish
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#2
with watching my Oscars I have seen this same type of behavior at times..then an hour later the larger of the 2 will chase the smaller one out of its territory. I would be interested in actually seeing this if you can record it. I also dont know that it would be impossible for them to pair off, I am not sure of the taxonomy of the JD, if I remember correctly animals of the same genus can potentially interbreed regardless of species.
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#3
Very interesting Brian. Seeing the two of them together I thought they were getting a little more comfortable then I have seen two fish before. I would really like to keep the two of them together, that sounds like my 55g tank.
 

Jul 9, 2003
8,866
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38
Columbia, SC
www.youtube.com
#4
29 gallon

6" Jack Dempsey
3" Oscar
3" Chocolate Pleco
3" Kissing Gourami
2" Blue Gourami
1.5" Parrothead hybrid
Its probably because they can't get away from each other to keep from touching.

Regardless of your tank issues, when they "cuddle" is it behind some plants or in a corner or anything? The charging could be taken as a sign of dominance with a "stare down" at the end. You should probably see some gill flaring with this behavior. I've only seen Africans acctually charge and hit the other fish, new world cichlids usually just flare up, charge and stop...or lock jaws.
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#5
Its probably because they can't get away from each other to keep from touching.

Regardless of your tank issues, when they "cuddle" is it behind some plants or in a corner or anything? The charging could be taken as a sign of dominance with a "stare down" at the end. You should probably see some gill flaring with this behavior. I've only seen Africans acctually charge and hit the other fish, new world cichlids usually just flare up, charge and stop...or lock jaws.
Funny, but they actually seek out each other's attention. Did I mention I had a 55g cycling earlier in this thread? So yes, back to the question at hand, the cuddle occurs everywhere in the tank. In a cave, mid tank, behind plants, out in the open, it doesn't seem to matter. The oscar will sit still, let the jd charge, no moving, no flaring, no sign of aggression, no sign of submission. The jd, when charging, has all fins down, and stops right before contact and slowly rests its nose against the side of the oscar. The oscar will swim up a bit and massage the upper fin of the jd, the whole time, no signs of aggression are apparent. Eventually the two will seperate and go their seperate ways. Sometimes just minutes go by and they will do it again, other times it takes an hour or so.

It just looks to me like they are enjoying each other's company, almost flirting too.
 

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
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Florida
#6
It's sometimes difficult to interpret what the interactions between two different species of sexually mature and juvenile fish mean; particularly when housed in such small quarters. I wouldn't read too much into it as far as the 'pairing' theory is concerned either---your oscar is nowhere near reaching sexual maturity yet. Even if they were to become 'buddies,' we still don't have a clue as to the sex of your oscar---and if we did, it wouldn't matter one iota because these fish will not be able to successfully spawn with one another.

BV
 

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brian1973

Superstar Fish
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#7
It's sometimes difficult to interpret what the interactions between two different species of sexually mature and juvenile fish mean; particularly when housed in such small quarters. I wouldn't read too much into it as far as the 'pairing' theory is concerned either---your oscar is nowhere near reaching sexual maturity yet. Even if they were to become 'buddies,' we still don't have a clue as to the sex of your oscar---and if we did, it wouldn't matter one iota because these fish will not be able to successfully spawn with one another.

BV
What does the behavior mean? who knows.

BV,
I agree with what you said for the most part, I did do some research and fish can cross breed within the same family, of course there is alot more that goes into crossbreeding than just belonging to the same family so it is unlikely, but there are common hybrids both in the wild and on the current market so saying it doesnt matter one iota, unless you have the scientific proof, is opinion and not fact.

added link for opinions on hybrids. Cichlid Research Home Page: Hybrids
 

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AlyKat

Large Fish
Aug 3, 2007
255
0
0
New York
#8
I've got an Oscar and Dempsey tank as well...in a 55...started out with them both really small...about 3" for Oscar and probably 2" for Jack. (Love those creative names, huh? LOL) They will also hang around eachother but I wouldn't say I've ever seen them "cuddle", although they do seem to sometimes enjoy each others company. Sometimes. Other times they will charge at each other. It's pretty even though...they seem to take turns. Of course Oscar has grown soooooo much faster than Jack...probably better that way, as Jack is the "more aggressive" of the 2.

How long have you had them? How long till your 55 is cycled?
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#9
I have had the jd for several years now, his first tankmate died awhile ago and I just recently went crazy and bought the rest of the fish. My 55g started cycling about the same time I started this thread. I have got a dozen goldfish or so in the tank creating as much ammonia as they can to get the process going. I haven't even tested the water yet, will start doing that next week. Love the blue lobster too, btw.
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#11
I am thinking those two, and I would like to have the pleco in there as well. I like to have some sort of algae eater in all of my tanks, and I have found the more aggressive fish don't bother the pleco as much as other softer algae eaters. I once bought a chinese algae eater and seconds after entering the tank, I saw its tail hanging out of the jack's mouth, a nice $4 meal for the guy. Thoughts on the three fish in the tank, the 55g looks pretty, but the ammonia has yet to spike. I looked at 'stability' to help things along, good idea?
 

Big Vine

Elite Fish
Feb 7, 2006
3,895
9
0
47
Florida
#12
saying it doesnt matter one iota, unless you have the scientific proof, is opinion and not fact.
But it's true...it doesn't matter one iota.
I understand what you are saying from a technical standpoint, but in reality I really don't need scientific proof. Show me some oscar x JD crosses and I'll gladly recant my assertions. ;)

BV
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#13
Ok all, I have transfered my three fish into the 55g tank. With the help of this forum and the people that post on it, my fish have made a big step to happy and healthy life. I asked a lot of questions and got a lot of answer, most of which were consistent. I placed the pleco in the tank first, yesterday evening. I pulled him out of the 29g inside of the cave that he frequents, he was attached to the inside of the cave until i flipped it over and pooled the water in it. I had a five gallon bucket, my fish bucket, half full with tank water that I placed him in, along with the cave. An easy drop into the other tank, still in the cave. The oscar came shortly after, the same bucket procedure was used but I had to net the oscar to get him out of the tank. When I initially put him in the tank, he was very lethargic. I think he was just scared. I watched him closely for some time, 2-3 hrs actually. He eventually swam about the tank, very slowly and was frightened by the small goldfish in the tank with him. Pretty much he hid behind a plant in the corner. I checked the water the this morning and everything looked good, and the oscar looked healthy, just still hiding. I got home from work this afernoon and everything looked good. I checked the water again and noticed that nitrate in my new 55g had jumped from 5-10 to a bit darker than 20. I pulled some water out and did a quick change to dillute the nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite have stayed steady at 0 the entire time. After the water test I decided it was time to get the jack dempsey in the tank. My net was hardly big enough to capture him, but after a bit of sweet talking and patience I finally did net him and used the same procedure with the 5 gallon bucket. When I placed him in the tank, he immediately went to the corner that the oscar had been hiding at. Sure enough, the oscar was over there, and they hung out behind the plant for probably ten minutes. Slowly they came out of hiding and have been extremely active in their new environment. They oscar is still following the jd around and they seem to be dancing. The move together as if they are schooling, then the oscar will stop and the jd will circle the oscar, under then over. This has happened several times since the two have been in the tank together, but the addition of the jd certainly made the oscar more lively. At one point the oscar swam under the jd and its fins vibrated, it seemed to be a part of their dance. Aggression, friendship, more...................? That's the question. Pictures to come within the next few days, borrowing a digital camera from my gf.


Very excited about the new tank!!!!!!!!!!!
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#14
Ok all, the fish have been together in the big tank for a week now. I check on them periodically and there is little movement in the tank. Jack hangs out in his tube and vinny in his plant on the other side of the tank. Vinny will venture over to jacks side of the tank occasionally, and when he does, he is usually greated by jack. Jack will come out of his tube and him and vinny will hang out behind it near a piece of slate, leaned against the tube on one side and the gravel on the other to create a hideout underneath, while keeping a flat surface on top. Jack will hang out on top and vinny below, which is closer to jacks tube. Eventually, the both of them will head into jacks tube and hang out in there. I have seen vinny in that tube with jack quite often and usually for long periods of time. Obviously, jack has claimed the tube as his territory, he doesn't make it to the other side of the tank very often, but he keeps letting the smaller vinny into it, with no penalty. I understand jds aren't the most aggressive fish in the tank, but he should protect his territory. Has vinny pulled rank and and become a brute, he show no sign of aggression either. For a little bit last night all three, the pleco, jack, and vinny were hanging out in the tube, the pleco eating of course. They still do their dance and never have I seen a real aggressive move from either. The other day, jack actually had vinny's head in his mouth, his entire head!!!! He didn't bite, no scrape or cut on vinny, vinny didn't even swim away fast or turn on his side defensively, he just sat there and go closer to jack. Not sure what it is all about, pretty cool stuff though, IMO.
 

#15
What does the behavior mean? who knows.

BV,
I agree with what you said for the most part, I did do some research and fish can cross breed within the same family, of course there is alot more that goes into crossbreeding than just belonging to the same family so it is unlikely, but there are common hybrids both in the wild and on the current market so saying it doesnt matter one iota, unless you have the scientific proof, is opinion and not fact.

added link for opinions on hybrids. Cichlid Research Home Page: Hybrids
Just because they can cross breed doesn't mean that the eggs will hatch. They could end up like parrot cichlids and not be able to produce fry. For now i think that the oscar and jd will be fine but soon they will out grow the tank and you will need to get a bigger one.
 

brian1973

Superstar Fish
Jan 20, 2008
2,001
3
38
Corpus Christi, Texas
#17
Just because they can cross breed doesn't mean that the eggs will hatch. They could end up like parrot cichlids and not be able to produce fry. For now i think that the oscar and jd will be fine but soon they will out grow the tank and you will need to get a bigger one.
There are numerous accounts of parrots mating and having fry. I never said they would reproduce I said scientifically speaking it is possible for fish to spawn that are in the same family. There are numerous postings in other forums of oscars spawning with other fish but none have produced fry.
 

May 30, 2008
292
0
0
Midland, MI
#19
I thought 55 was enough for those fish. I went out garage saling today and bought another 55g for $25, thought it was a heck of a deal and had to pick it up. Now, get that thing cycled and maybe set up a smaller fish habitat. Was thinking of going to the dark side and trying out a saltwater set up too. Just happy to have gotten such a great deal on it.
 

AlyKat

Large Fish
Aug 3, 2007
255
0
0
New York
#20
Wow, that really IS a great deal!! Both of my 55's were used...got 1 off Craigslist with stand, hood, light, gravel...everything for $65...THAT was a good deal too...got the other free from a friend of a friend...can't go wrong as long as you clean everything really well!