howdy howdy. been a while since I been on but been having internet issues. but I do have a couple questions upon my return to the tank. ok I know cichlids can cross breed but this is the first time that I know of it happening with me. from what it looks it's a mix with a lab and maingano. it's a rather neat looking fish so far. but it has a lab body but the long dorsal fin and the same black pattern as a maingano but yet is primarily yellow. there is some blue on the very top edge of the dorsal fin. now I'm wondering if there is a name for this hybrid and if not what should I call it? lol. has anyone else had hybrids and if u have what were they hybrids of?
new species
- Thread starter exhumed07
- Start date
a nameing contest would be cool. and no I don't have any pics yet. like I said I been having internet issues and got a down speed of 30k and an up of .7-8k so it's bad lol. should be fixed tomorrow so I'll try to post pics. but he is only about half an inch long at the moment but he has just recently started showing the coloration cause ever since I seen him in the tank I thought he was just a lab and I just looked at the other young one thats in there and he just has the black bar accross the face so far. I just can't wait till they get a few inches long and full color. I think it could be an interesting mix.
They are not a new species, they are a hybrid of two separate species. So they don't need a cutesty little made-up name to confuse people into thinking they're pure something that they're not. That goes for dogs, too 
But dogs of course are not hybrids, they're simply crossbreeds.
They will not be sterile. Very few cichlid hybrids are; always assume they will be able to reproduce. Which is part of the major problem of course.
If they don't get culled in your tank, then remove them from the tank and cull them. Or keep them in your tank, but never let them leave it.
But dogs of course are not hybrids, they're simply crossbreeds. They will not be sterile. Very few cichlid hybrids are; always assume they will be able to reproduce. Which is part of the major problem of course.
If they don't get culled in your tank, then remove them from the tank and cull them. Or keep them in your tank, but never let them leave it.
I've never understood what the big problem was with Cichlid hybrids. o_o I mean, they aren't like deformed or anything? They can live just like normal fish... So what's wrong with it? How is it different than dog cross breeds. It doesn't seem different at all.
That actualy sounds like a beutiful fish by the way. Sorry for the sort-of-not hijack.
That actualy sounds like a beutiful fish by the way. Sorry for the sort-of-not hijack.
Tainted bloodlines. Some people, like myself like pure blooded fish. As does Sinister i would think.
Imagine having a breeding program of one species, then having another fish you buy as that species come into your breeding program but in reality it was a mixed species. It then taints your whole program and the fry that come from it.
Just as an example, what if say Yellow Labs became endangered and people wanted to try and save them through captive breeding programs. A hybrid lab would be no good for that program.
Imagine having a breeding program of one species, then having another fish you buy as that species come into your breeding program but in reality it was a mixed species. It then taints your whole program and the fry that come from it.
Just as an example, what if say Yellow Labs became endangered and people wanted to try and save them through captive breeding programs. A hybrid lab would be no good for that program.
Yeah but again, how is it bad if you label them clearly as hybrids. Would you buy your yellow lab for the breeding program out of a 'mixed african cichlid' tank? I doubt it, knowing that they would most likely be a hybrid.
I'm not saying for OMG BREEDING reasons... I just sort-of mean for the idea of just a normal hobbist who just wants a pretty fishie... How is that bad? I'mma go look it up... But it still confuses me
Note: I'm not trying to defend the action of hybridization... I'm just confused over the big 'Kill it, KILL IT NOW!' It's just... I dunno, it seems wrong to kill something just because it's parents did the nasty.
What about Blood Parrots for that matter? They're a hybrid and seem to be accepted pretty well...
I'm not saying for OMG BREEDING reasons... I just sort-of mean for the idea of just a normal hobbist who just wants a pretty fishie... How is that bad? I'mma go look it up... But it still confuses me
Note: I'm not trying to defend the action of hybridization... I'm just confused over the big 'Kill it, KILL IT NOW!' It's just... I dunno, it seems wrong to kill something just because it's parents did the nasty.
What about Blood Parrots for that matter? They're a hybrid and seem to be accepted pretty well...
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If you label them clearly i don't see a big problem with it personally, just know what you are buying and selling and don't try to pass them off as a single species. I personally just prefer pure fish. Its the fish that are passed off as one thing when they really are a mix that is a problem.
Another thing is people have problems selling mixed fry, hence the mass culling. Because otherwise they will just distribute the fry to the area LFS. The owner of the fish might make it clear that these are hybrid or mixed fish, but that doesn't mean the LFS will make it clear to its customers. And then they will turn around and sell them as something they arn't, and the chain goes on.
Nooo blood parrots are very un-accepted. I mean even the American Cichlid Association's next convention catch phrase or slogan is "A Hybrid Menace" played off of star wars.
Another thing is people have problems selling mixed fry, hence the mass culling. Because otherwise they will just distribute the fry to the area LFS. The owner of the fish might make it clear that these are hybrid or mixed fish, but that doesn't mean the LFS will make it clear to its customers. And then they will turn around and sell them as something they arn't, and the chain goes on.
Nooo blood parrots are very un-accepted. I mean even the American Cichlid Association's next convention catch phrase or slogan is "A Hybrid Menace" played off of star wars.
That depends who you ask. Blood parrots are disgusting, mutated examples of mankind's horrific ego. They should never have been created, and they should not still be in creation. Horrible, horrible creatures.
If they're sold as hybrids, that's one thing. But, 99% of them are not. And, even if YOU sell them as hybrids, what's to say that the person you sold them to will not then turn around at some point and sell them as some pure species to someone who doesn't know better?
You walk into most pet stores, and 90% of their African selection are hybrids. 90% of those people buying them, are not educated enough to know they're not a pure species. They buy the fish, they then breed, and that person sells the babies as pure whatever, to someone else who doesn't know better.
Or, you get someone who buys a "pure" yellow lab, and then finds out that it's actually a hybrid. Personally, if I buy something as a pure fish, I damn well expect it to be exactly what it was sold as, so finding out it's a hybrid afterwords would piss me right off.
There is absolutely no need for hybrids. None. Especially within the cichlid family - there are literally HUNDREDS of pure, naturally-occurring species that are absolutely STUNNING. Why on earth do we need to create some dumb hybrid when there are so many natural and pure species to choose from?
It's simply irresponsible fish keeping, in my opinion.
If they're sold as hybrids, that's one thing. But, 99% of them are not. And, even if YOU sell them as hybrids, what's to say that the person you sold them to will not then turn around at some point and sell them as some pure species to someone who doesn't know better?
You walk into most pet stores, and 90% of their African selection are hybrids. 90% of those people buying them, are not educated enough to know they're not a pure species. They buy the fish, they then breed, and that person sells the babies as pure whatever, to someone else who doesn't know better.
Or, you get someone who buys a "pure" yellow lab, and then finds out that it's actually a hybrid. Personally, if I buy something as a pure fish, I damn well expect it to be exactly what it was sold as, so finding out it's a hybrid afterwords would piss me right off.
There is absolutely no need for hybrids. None. Especially within the cichlid family - there are literally HUNDREDS of pure, naturally-occurring species that are absolutely STUNNING. Why on earth do we need to create some dumb hybrid when there are so many natural and pure species to choose from?
It's simply irresponsible fish keeping, in my opinion.
Really? Didn't know that. I do though understand the issue of an LFS selling them as normal yellow labs or such. I guess the best bet is, if you have a mixed tank of africans... Just don't plan to keep the babies, and if you do, just keep enough to fill your own tank?
I think Blood Parots are ugly anyhow... They look like some sort of baloon animal fish... Flowerhorns are hybrids too, yes?
Edit: OMG SINISTER YOU NINJA POSTED ON ME D:!~
THAT is very true though. I don't understand the idea of making hybrids just to make a 'more beutiful fish'. If it's an accident though... Perhaps the statement above would be the best bet...
So you're saying that it's hard to even buy a say... Pure Yellow lab? Hell, if I bought one as pure and found that it was a hybrid... I'd be getting some money back. That's just me though...
I think Blood Parots are ugly anyhow... They look like some sort of baloon animal fish... Flowerhorns are hybrids too, yes?
Edit: OMG SINISTER YOU NINJA POSTED ON ME D:!~
THAT is very true though. I don't understand the idea of making hybrids just to make a 'more beutiful fish'. If it's an accident though... Perhaps the statement above would be the best bet...
So you're saying that it's hard to even buy a say... Pure Yellow lab? Hell, if I bought one as pure and found that it was a hybrid... I'd be getting some money back. That's just me though...
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It's next to impossible to buy pure labs from a store. I personally would never, ever trust a store-bought lab to be pure, even if it appeared to be.
Yes, flowerhorns are man-made hybrids.
For the most part, there shouldn't be accidents. Responsible fish keeping means planning your tank accordingly so your fish don't hybridize, or at least so the odds are very slim. If it does happen, okay, but don't keep the babies, and certainly don't distribute them. If you're just going to throw a bunch of fish in a tank without planning, then right off the bad it's not responsible fish keeping, and of course hybrids will result. They still should not be grown and distributed.
Yes, flowerhorns are man-made hybrids.
For the most part, there shouldn't be accidents. Responsible fish keeping means planning your tank accordingly so your fish don't hybridize, or at least so the odds are very slim. If it does happen, okay, but don't keep the babies, and certainly don't distribute them. If you're just going to throw a bunch of fish in a tank without planning, then right off the bad it's not responsible fish keeping, and of course hybrids will result. They still should not be grown and distributed.
I am going to throw this in there, many fish hybrids exist in the wild especially with NA sunfish, catching a hybrid sunfish is the norm rather than the exception in many areas, not to mention other game species that are hybrids some man made sterilized hybrids but others that are naturally occuring hybrids (tiger Muskie). I dont know where the species he has hail from but if they are in the same area it is possible they breed in the wild as well. I personally have no issues with hybrids, while researching I found that many Discus are actually hybrids/ or crossbreeds if you prefer because there are 2 different species that have been crossbred to attain the vibrant colors. Heres the link if your interested. Cichlid Hybrids
Thats a matter of who you talk to. Right now there are only 2, maybe 3 now (Symphysodon tarzoo is like the frontosa gibberosa debate and is pretty confusing/new. Tarzoo only show color differences not even DNA difference so therefore they might as well not even be named) described species of the Symphysodon genus. Your basic domestic discus is derived from Symphysodon aequifasciatus, and wild greens/blues. Anything without the pronounced bar that the Heckels (Symphysodon discus) have.
So basically your domestic strains are all Symphysodon aequifasciatus just color forms that were selectively bred to show those color forms and patterns over the years. The argument of hybrid discus only holds weight (with me at least) if you look directly at something like a Green or Blue wild discus crossed with a Heckel. Like a Snakeskin discus is just a Turquoise discus that was bred for spots. Start out with a truq that has a different broken striation pattern and just breed until the striations become spots. Then you have snakeskins and leopards.
There are a few Heckle crosses, but they are quite rare. However, discus are COMPLETELY different. I mean the africans we are talking about, and the blood parrots/flower horns are like taking drastically different species and fish from completely different geniuses and breeding them together.
Either way, discus do not hold the same health issues or deformations that hybrids usually hold.
So basically your domestic strains are all Symphysodon aequifasciatus just color forms that were selectively bred to show those color forms and patterns over the years. The argument of hybrid discus only holds weight (with me at least) if you look directly at something like a Green or Blue wild discus crossed with a Heckel. Like a Snakeskin discus is just a Turquoise discus that was bred for spots. Start out with a truq that has a different broken striation pattern and just breed until the striations become spots. Then you have snakeskins and leopards.
There are a few Heckle crosses, but they are quite rare. However, discus are COMPLETELY different. I mean the africans we are talking about, and the blood parrots/flower horns are like taking drastically different species and fish from completely different geniuses and breeding them together.
Either way, discus do not hold the same health issues or deformations that hybrids usually hold.
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