Help with ICK.....
- Thread starter shuffcard
- Start date
ick is a parasite
if he has it you will see him "scratching" himself against ornaments and substrate. you will also be able to see the actual ick. Its white and grows off the side and fins will usually start to rot if it gets bad (two different diseases, one causes the other)
if hes got it, it will transfer to other fish.
your best bet is to just buy the medication and treat the tank.
idk how new it is but if you just put it in their i would have quarantined it first.
if he has it you will see him "scratching" himself against ornaments and substrate. you will also be able to see the actual ick. Its white and grows off the side and fins will usually start to rot if it gets bad (two different diseases, one causes the other)
if hes got it, it will transfer to other fish.
your best bet is to just buy the medication and treat the tank.
idk how new it is but if you just put it in their i would have quarantined it first.
So raising the temp only helps speed up the life cycle of the parasite (which I'll get to as to why that's a good thing). The only time ich is affected by medication is in it's free swimming stage so meds should be *part* of the treatment. In addition to the stage on the fish there is also one where the small white spots fall off the fish (landing on the gravel and decorations) to divide and produce 236 (I believe) new free swimmers which in turn attach to the host, your fish. The other nasty trick Ich has is the cysts on the gravel can lay dormant for up to a few months. Another thing to keep in mind is most Ich meds will actually decrease the O2 saturation in water (as will raising the temp) so adding an air stone or powerhead is really a good idea, basically anything that will increase water movement at the surface where gas exchange happens.
So what you should do is
1)Raise the temp to ~82F
2) Increase O2 exchange
3) Medicate the tank (Following the directions of whatever med you choose, I like Malachite Green IE: Nox-Ich)
4) regular gravel vacs (Every couple of days)
5) watch the fish CLOSE for the next month or two.
As has already been mentioned watch out for secondary infections, they can be the real killer.
Good luck!
Chris
Almost forgot to mention, when medicating, be sure to remove any form of chemical filtration (like carbon), they will just adsorb the meds and waste your carbon.
So what you should do is
1)Raise the temp to ~82F
2) Increase O2 exchange
3) Medicate the tank (Following the directions of whatever med you choose, I like Malachite Green IE: Nox-Ich)
4) regular gravel vacs (Every couple of days)
5) watch the fish CLOSE for the next month or two.
As has already been mentioned watch out for secondary infections, they can be the real killer.
Good luck!
Chris
Almost forgot to mention, when medicating, be sure to remove any form of chemical filtration (like carbon), they will just adsorb the meds and waste your carbon.
K, that's good at least. You really have three options then.
1) Remove the cartridge while you're medicating
2) If the one in there is old, keep using it. (carbon only lasts days in most cases not the weeks people seem to think it does)
3) (What I used to do with penguins) Cut the top of the filter floss and wash out the carbon. I'd also sew it back up and rinse for storage when I was done with it. That way you have one carbon free on hand if need be.
Chris
1) Remove the cartridge while you're medicating
2) If the one in there is old, keep using it. (carbon only lasts days in most cases not the weeks people seem to think it does)
3) (What I used to do with penguins) Cut the top of the filter floss and wash out the carbon. I'd also sew it back up and rinse for storage when I was done with it. That way you have one carbon free on hand if need be.
Chris
I found that raising the tank to 86 degrees and speeds up the cycle. I was told that ich can't live at that high of a temp in it's free floating stage, but for a smidge of help I also added the salt treatment. I put an airstone in the tank and the ich was off the fish in ten days and gone out of the tank by month's end. I did have another time where i used coppersafe and followed the instructions exactly. The ich was gone in 3 days, but back in 10. Lost two great fish in that test. Basically it is different for each case and each tank I've learned from reading and what each person's own opinion is. Just read up and try at least one of them.
I really liked and had good luck with the heat/salt method when I battled ich. The meds scared me and some will stain the silicone of your tank as well. Added benefit is that you don't really have to worry about having carbon in your filter or not. Plus, the salt is dirt cheap. Even my sensitive fish like loaches and plecs did really well with that treatment.
Sorry, I don't recall the exact amount of salt, but if you do a quick search, shouldn't be too hard to find.
Mike
Sorry, I don't recall the exact amount of salt, but if you do a quick search, shouldn't be too hard to find.
Mike
So the salt method works by thickening the slime coat which is a fishes first line of defence. Long come short... It's actually an irritant, which is why the slime coat thickens making it harder for the free swimmers (tomites) to burrow into the skin. While salt can damage the tomites I seem to recall reading that the Specific Gravity has to be relatively high compaired to what is normally recommended for dosing (Sorry, it was years ago I don't recall the actual number). I will admit it seems to work for some people but from the number that I've talked with, it's more hit and miss than I'm comfortable with.
My main concern with raising the temp to 86F is at that point O2 saturation is substantially lower than normal. That said though, a gourami should be fine for a while thanks to that wonderful evolutionary adaptation, the Labyrinth Organ
. So really, your call. He's the only one in that tank right? (Saw your signature)
Chris
Edit: Sorry my bad, just re-read it's the dwarf rather than the gold. 86F is probably too high IMO.
My main concern with raising the temp to 86F is at that point O2 saturation is substantially lower than normal. That said though, a gourami should be fine for a while thanks to that wonderful evolutionary adaptation, the Labyrinth Organ
. So really, your call. He's the only one in that tank right? (Saw your signature)Chris
Edit: Sorry my bad, just re-read it's the dwarf rather than the gold. 86F is probably too high IMO.
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I have used the medication method in the past and have not had great results. Thankfully nothing was died an odd color but the ich did come back.
On the other hand I have used the heat/salt method a few times and have had very positive results; ich visually gone in 3 days and treated for the full month without it returning (knock on wood!!)
Here is a link to the heat/salt method.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/hospital/fwich/
Make sure to raise the heat slowly and treat for the full 30 days; similar to feeling better after taking one dose of medication but finishing the whole treatment!
On the other hand I have used the heat/salt method a few times and have had very positive results; ich visually gone in 3 days and treated for the full month without it returning (knock on wood!!)
Here is a link to the heat/salt method.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/hospital/fwich/
Make sure to raise the heat slowly and treat for the full 30 days; similar to feeling better after taking one dose of medication but finishing the whole treatment!
No. Aquarium salt. Sodium chloride.
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, NOT sodium chloride!!
Actually, when I was running seven tanks (small potatoes compared to some of y'all) I went out and got a bag of the salt (sodium chloride) you buy for water softeners. It was really cheap, and I don't anticipate running out anytime in this lifetime.
You want to gradually raise the temp. I bump it up a bit at a time, so that it takes a couple of days to get the temp up to 86F. That may be overcautious, but I think that in conjunction with the change in salinity you can't be too careful.
You also need to add the salt in several increments. I add a third at a time, twelve hours apart, until I'm at the concentration I'm shooting for. This also gives you time to observe your fish's reactions to the treatment. If they seem altogether too stressed, you can make adjustments to your treatment plan.
I have used as much as a tablespoon to a gallon, but IMHO you probably shouldn't do that with certain fish. With some tanks I just used one to one-and-a-half teaspoons to a gallon, depending on how my fish were reacting. However, I did the high concentration with a tank including cories, tetras, a gourami, and a weather loach, and only lost one cory and one tetra. Use your own discernment and do your own research regarding the salt/heat method.
I sprinkle the salt into the filter box. I've never read anything to indicate any problem with doing it that way, and it dissolves gradually into the stream of water.
Be sure you have plenty of oxygenation. Adding an airstone doesn't hurt. Running a micron filter isn't a half bad idea either.
You need to treat for about two weeks after you last see ich breakouts, if I remember correctly. Stopping too soon may lead to a recurrence.
At the end of treatment I bring the temp down gradually and do a series of 25% water changes, with thorough substrate vacuuming, to bring the salinity down gradually as well. One big w/c might do just as well, but I prefer to make the gradual changes just in case.
I've lost many, many more fish to ich meds than ever to heat/salt. This is just my experience, though.
Don't try to combine the salt method with using meds, though. Either one alone is very stressful for the fish. If you opt for meds, just follow the directions very closely.
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, NOT sodium chloride!!
Actually, when I was running seven tanks (small potatoes compared to some of y'all) I went out and got a bag of the salt (sodium chloride) you buy for water softeners. It was really cheap, and I don't anticipate running out anytime in this lifetime.
You want to gradually raise the temp. I bump it up a bit at a time, so that it takes a couple of days to get the temp up to 86F. That may be overcautious, but I think that in conjunction with the change in salinity you can't be too careful.
You also need to add the salt in several increments. I add a third at a time, twelve hours apart, until I'm at the concentration I'm shooting for. This also gives you time to observe your fish's reactions to the treatment. If they seem altogether too stressed, you can make adjustments to your treatment plan.
I have used as much as a tablespoon to a gallon, but IMHO you probably shouldn't do that with certain fish. With some tanks I just used one to one-and-a-half teaspoons to a gallon, depending on how my fish were reacting. However, I did the high concentration with a tank including cories, tetras, a gourami, and a weather loach, and only lost one cory and one tetra. Use your own discernment and do your own research regarding the salt/heat method.
I sprinkle the salt into the filter box. I've never read anything to indicate any problem with doing it that way, and it dissolves gradually into the stream of water.
Be sure you have plenty of oxygenation. Adding an airstone doesn't hurt. Running a micron filter isn't a half bad idea either.
You need to treat for about two weeks after you last see ich breakouts, if I remember correctly. Stopping too soon may lead to a recurrence.
At the end of treatment I bring the temp down gradually and do a series of 25% water changes, with thorough substrate vacuuming, to bring the salinity down gradually as well. One big w/c might do just as well, but I prefer to make the gradual changes just in case.
I've lost many, many more fish to ich meds than ever to heat/salt. This is just my experience, though.
Don't try to combine the salt method with using meds, though. Either one alone is very stressful for the fish. If you opt for meds, just follow the directions very closely.
No. Aquarium salt. Sodium chloride.
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, NOT sodium chloride!!
Actually, when I was running seven tanks (small potatoes compared to some of y'all) I went out and got a bag of the salt (sodium chloride) you buy for water softeners. It was really cheap, and I don't anticipate running out anytime in this lifetime.
You want to gradually raise the temp. I bump it up a bit at a time, so that it takes a couple of days to get the temp up to 86F. That may be overcautious, but I think that in conjunction with the change in salinity you can't be too careful.
You also need to add the salt in several increments. I add a third at a time, twelve hours apart, until I'm at the concentration I'm shooting for. This also gives you time to observe your fish's reactions to the treatment. If they seem altogether too stressed, you can make adjustments to your treatment plan.
I have used as much as a tablespoon to a gallon, but IMHO you probably shouldn't do that with certain fish. With some tanks I just used one to one-and-a-half teaspoons to a gallon, depending on how my fish were reacting. However, I did the high concentration with a tank including cories, tetras, a gourami, and a weather loach, and only lost one cory and one tetra. Use your own discernment and do your own research regarding the salt/heat method.
I sprinkle the salt into the filter box. I've never read anything to indicate any problem with doing it that way, and it dissolves gradually into the stream of water.
Be sure you have plenty of oxygenation. Adding an airstone doesn't hurt. Running a micron filter isn't a half bad idea either.
You need to treat for about two weeks after you last see ich breakouts, if I remember correctly. Stopping too soon may lead to a recurrence.
At the end of treatment I bring the temp down gradually and do a series of 25% water changes, with thorough substrate vacuuming, to bring the salinity down gradually as well. One big w/c might do just as well, but I prefer to make the gradual changes just in case.
I've lost many, many more fish to ich meds than ever to heat/salt. This is just my experience, though.
Don't try to combine the salt method with using meds, though. Either one alone is very stressful for the fish. If you opt for meds, just follow the directions very closely.
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, NOT sodium chloride!!
Actually, when I was running seven tanks (small potatoes compared to some of y'all) I went out and got a bag of the salt (sodium chloride) you buy for water softeners. It was really cheap, and I don't anticipate running out anytime in this lifetime.
You want to gradually raise the temp. I bump it up a bit at a time, so that it takes a couple of days to get the temp up to 86F. That may be overcautious, but I think that in conjunction with the change in salinity you can't be too careful.
You also need to add the salt in several increments. I add a third at a time, twelve hours apart, until I'm at the concentration I'm shooting for. This also gives you time to observe your fish's reactions to the treatment. If they seem altogether too stressed, you can make adjustments to your treatment plan.
I have used as much as a tablespoon to a gallon, but IMHO you probably shouldn't do that with certain fish. With some tanks I just used one to one-and-a-half teaspoons to a gallon, depending on how my fish were reacting. However, I did the high concentration with a tank including cories, tetras, a gourami, and a weather loach, and only lost one cory and one tetra. Use your own discernment and do your own research regarding the salt/heat method.
I sprinkle the salt into the filter box. I've never read anything to indicate any problem with doing it that way, and it dissolves gradually into the stream of water.
Be sure you have plenty of oxygenation. Adding an airstone doesn't hurt. Running a micron filter isn't a half bad idea either.
You need to treat for about two weeks after you last see ich breakouts, if I remember correctly. Stopping too soon may lead to a recurrence.
At the end of treatment I bring the temp down gradually and do a series of 25% water changes, with thorough substrate vacuuming, to bring the salinity down gradually as well. One big w/c might do just as well, but I prefer to make the gradual changes just in case.
I've lost many, many more fish to ich meds than ever to heat/salt. This is just my experience, though.
Don't try to combine the salt method with using meds, though. Either one alone is very stressful for the fish. If you opt for meds, just follow the directions very closely.