Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[Chris_A]

But if they are intended for irrigation use, would'nt the metal be stainless?

Not necessarily, could be copper. Plus it really depends on the grade of stainless even if it is. Something like 316LV *might* be ok so long as the water doesn't sit stagnent in it. Chances are though, it would be something like 304 (or even cheaper) which will oxidize to a point in salt water. All stainless is not made equally . Even with the 316 series it has something like 30% Nickle which I have no idea about it's reactivity in salt. Same with the chromium which is a defining feature of stainless steel.

That is why most people who do use any kind of metal for DIY use Titanium. That said... it ain't cheap! Plus it's a real[Insert colourful phrase here] to machine manually if you want to make parts. "Gummy" for lack of a better term, I'd rather work with a hard material (4140 or IHCP for example) any day of the week.

Chris

 

[Alberta_Rigger]

Canvas rug??

Were are guys getting this canvas rug material? I went to a fabric store and could not find any. I am useing that plastic tank devider as a screen. It seems a bit better than the ones I can see in the pics, has twice as many holes. But I am still worried about when it comes time to cleaning it. I think all the algae may just fall off. What other options are there?

 

[Chris_A]

Take a look in Walmart in the fabric/craft section. They sell the Plastic grid shown in this thread for cross-stitch. Not sure about the canvas rug material though...

Chris

 

[SantaMonica]

Are you familure with...

Yep I've read in detail every one of those, including reports from users who are still using them.

both are 6400k but one is more yellowish and one is white. Is there a differance?

Then they are not both 6400K. Actually, the "white" one is probably good, but the yellow one is worn out.

Were are guys getting this canvas rug material?

This "plastic canvas" one might be easier to get into the slot after cleaning, and the edges will not wear; it also will hold it's shape so that a solid frame may not be needed:
Everything Plastic Canvas - Plastic Canvas 7 Mesh 12" x 18"

This "rug canvas" is made from fiber so that algae sticks to it the best; but it does not hold its shape when wet, so it will need a solid frame. Also, the edges will wear, so the frame will have to hold the edges down:
No-Slip Rug Canvas 24" x30"

I am useing that plastic tank devider as a screen. It seems a bit better than the ones I can see in the pics, has twice as many holes. But I am still worried about when it comes time to cleaning it. I think all the algae may just fall off.

Correct, much does. You can sand it and make it rough. You can also pancake two sheets together, which will help.

 

[Chris_A]

Yep I've read in detail every one of those, including reports from users who are still using them.

Cheers! I've always liked the fact they are air driven systems. Though I've never been able to figure out *precicely* how the system surges with the Eco-wheel type. I haven't really had the time to look again but their site used to be set up so you could only see the details if you owned one of their systems. That company's solution to DIY copying . You wouldn't happen to have any links to someones personal page that might have the info would you?

Chris

 

[SantaMonica]

The wheel did not surge. The spinning through the water is what effected a surge.

No I don't have any links, but if you search for MMFI scrubber, or Eco Wheel scrubber, or even Inland Aquatics scrubber, you'll find some.

 

[Chris_A]

OK, so I had a little design session with a buddy... we could not figure out a way to get a reasonable "surge" in a float switch operated system. I took a continuity tester to my float switches and they seemed to have a 1/4" throw, not enough IMO to be effective. SOooo, with a little searching (gotta love wireless internet and strange looks at Dennys lol) I did find something that would make it work... a Time Delay Relay. Basically when the float switch closes the circuit this TDR allows the load side of the circuit to stay closed for a preset amount of time. I found one that looked relatively easy to build and could be set from 0-20 seconds. Here's the link: Time Delay Relay
More accurately this would be an additional circuit that the float switch would operate, which in turn would control the relay. I'm sure with a little looking you could find a pre-made one.


Chris

 

[Alberta_Rigger]

I currently have the bucket style ATS infront of my tank. It's awsome for what it does but ugle. I had this idea. I currently have a 20g that I am useing to cure rock. But once that rock is done, I was thinking of turning it into a big ATS with the screen going across the top of it. And when doing water changes on my main tank put that water into the 20g, then take the "scrubed" water from that and put in my main. What would the average turnover be to get that water clean again?
Technicaly I should be able to do this idefinately, and save on salt cost. And a good thing for me would be that all the pods that I could put back into the tank. Cause right now the bucket is below my tank. Any body els ever try this?

 

[Alberta_Rigger]

Thats funny that you mentioned time delays, I was just thinking of that. I think it would work, just a matter of getting the right delay. Instead of useing a valve, I wonder if it wouldbe possible to have a surge that will fill a certain amount then the water would fall below the screen when the pump kicks out. Might be very touchy though for it to work.

 

[SantaMonica]

Unfortunately the 20g idea won't work. Scrubbers do not seem to want to grow in a tank with only dirty water. I've tried and tried again. The scrubber needs to be on the main tank all the time. Just make (or have made) a nice acrylic one.

 

[SantaMonica]

Success of the Day:

"Mxett" on the MD site: "I installed a simple [scrubber] over my refugium. It uses an old plastic fruit juice container and a syphon [which makes a surge device] to dump 2 litres onto a white plastic chopping board which lays horizontally over the top of the refugium. A reflective CFL [bulb] is situated just 10cm above this board. The surge occurs every 30 seconds, lasting for 15 seconds. Growth on the [scrubber] has been excellent. Harvesting the algae is performed every 1 to 2 weeks per SM's instructions. [should be weekly ] N & P have never been detectable in my system, BUT I have always struggled with a very persistant nuisance red algae! It threatened to overtake my entire tank in the months before installing this [scrubber], which is only a modest size for my 800 litre cube. Anyway, after 3 months of using the [scrubber] I can confidently say I have little to none of this red algae left! My purple tange eats it and always has, but with less nutrients available to it, it has just withered away, and he just finishes it off. Overall a great success over a difficult pest. Thanks SM for providing the inspiration and idea to create, install and use such a cheap, easy and effective natural filter."

 

[BalaShark]

I was searching Inland Aquatics for seeded mesh. Can someone send me a link please or can I start with a clean mesh? According the FAQ from Algae Scrubbers • Index page

Q: How long does it take to get the real "red/brown" turf?
A: Current experience has shown that unless you start with a pre-grown turf screen, that it will never start growing on it's own. All algae is good, however, no matter what color or texture it is. Real red/brown turf just filters the most for a small size, that's all.

 

[SantaMonica]

You can start with empty mesh, and end up with regular green or brown algae which will work fine. If you want pre-grown red/brown turf (and you have strong lights and flow), get it here (is not listed on their site)...

Morgan Lidster
Facility Manager
Aquatic Technologies, Inc.
Inland Aquatics
Phone: (812) 232-9000
Fax: (928) 395-9434
inlandaquatics@aol.com
Inland Aquatics Homepage

 

[BalaShark]

Thank you! *celebrate I'll contact them tomorrow. Planning to use your design with 3 lights:
Light
Empty screen
Light
Seeded screen
Light

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes I'm designing a twin-screen for myself too. I'm tired of trying to be picky when cleaning my single screen (trying to leave some algae on the screen); with two screens I can just clean one completely and not worry about how much I left on the screen. I'm currently using plastic canvas, and algae does not stick that well to it.

 

[SantaMonica]

Scrubber FAQ 2.0 is now up:
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ 2.0 (1/18/09)

 

[troythegreat]

Hey santa monica, i finally have my scrubber up and operating. I have some questions for you though,. as you know i have a brand new tank with cured LR cycling for 2 weeks. i set up the scrubber a couple of days ago and i went to Canada. when i got back i noticed alot of algae of the scrubber. my pH went from 7.8 to 8.1, nitrates and nitrites almost undetectable. as you said before, my screen was too big 14" for 75g tank. so i put the light on one side. now i have a 40w 2700k on one side. i water is heating a little so i insulated the entire tank and sump. two questions, my tank is starting to get cloudy and the glass is filled with all of these microscopic animals. is the tank cloudy because i need to clean the scrubber?. are those little animals parasites or are they beneficial zooplankton? and how do i clean a one sided scrubber without constantly spiking the water chemistry?. whats the best way to position a fan to cool the tank.?...hope this is not too many questions thanks.....

 

[SantaMonica]

is the tank cloudy because i need to clean the scrubber?

Yep. Never should go two weeks. The underlying layers are shaded and dying, and releasing back into the water.

are those little animals parasites or are they beneficial zooplankton?

They are pods released from the scrubber, because you did not clean it in FW.

and how do i clean a one sided scrubber without constantly spiking the water chemistry?

Take it to the sink and clean half of it. But run FW over the whole thing to kill the pods.

whats the best way to position a fan to cool the tank

First, put a fan on the scrubber; one side for good cooling, both sides for great cooling.

 

[Chris_A]

Why would you want to kill the 'pods? They are an important part of the biodiversity in a tank.

So I checked out some valves (same type as what was posted about above) and they do have a steel pin of some type not sure what type or if it even was stainless (Left my magnet in my other jeans lol ) . So I started looking around for info on the solubility of Aluminum in marine water. Only found one artical I would call useful but I haven't had the time to sit and read the whole thing yet. I did read the conclusion though, apparently aluminum oxide is essentially non soluable in marine water. The test was even done with Sarcophyton sp. corals. My basic line of thinking is I *may* be able to switch out the steel pin for aluminum. Someone also recommended looking at model hobby stores for Titanium shafts, hadn't thought of this one...

Anyway, aside from the above stated possible use on an ATS I can think of a bunch of possible uses for these valves if they could easily be made to work. They even had a controller for them and 24V adaptor. The cheap controller ($78 cnd) was good for 3 different channels so a return manifold that switched outlets was the first thing that came to mind.

So I tried to find a link to them and this is the best I got. Rona isn't listing them on their site for whatever reason, out of season maybe?? The only thing I could find is the picture near the bottom.
Rona.ca - Installing an irrigation system
Small side note... don't use silicon in marrets like what the artical says to do... I know from experience what eventually happens... Fires not good...

Chris

 

[SantaMonica]

The reason you want to kill pods with FW weekly, is that they multiply so fast in a scrubber that they eat a tremendous amount of the algae, and thus the nitrate and phosphate are released back into the water. And they tend to grow in colonies underneath the algae, where there is less light, and where you can't see them or their effects. So while you may be thinking that your scrubber is doing good because it's growing lots of new algae on the outside, the inside layers are disolving and erasing the benefits. Easy fix: Wash the whole screen in FW weekly, even if you are actually only cleaning off half of the screen. Sometimes, if your algae is only a thin layer, you'll actually see holes on some parts of the screen. That's the pods. Anytime you see holes, it's time for a FW rinse even if it has not been a full week. By the way, you don't even need to remove your screen to apply the FW; just turn off the flow to the screen, and pour RODI (or distilled) over it. Not only will this kill the pods, but the pods will flow down into your tank to be eaten. Win win. Don't worry about the pods; there will be millions more by the next day; there will be swarms throughout the tank, more than you've ever had, as long as you don't have a skimmer or any other type of mechanical filter to remove them (floss, foam, etc).