Helping the cycle along...

[KyleBradley]

I have a new 35-gallon tank. It's used, but it has been sitting outside in a lady's yard for a while, so I had to wash it well.

So here's what I did, and I'd like the pros' opinions on the situation to ensure that I'm going about it smartly.

I set it up, filled it, dropped in AquaSafe and aquarium salt, and then turned on the old junky Tetra filter that came with it with new filter media (floss with carbon inside). I ran it for 24 hours with the filter and under-gravel filter, as well as the heaters.

Then I purchased 50 lbs of gravel, put about 3/4 of that in the tank, bought a hood with flourescent light and a new Marineland Emperor 280 filter. I replaced the Tetra with the Emperor-I'm not running both..

I took the bio wheel from other Emperor that's on a tank that's been up and running for a few years, as well as the filter cartridge, which is about a week old, and I put them in the Emperor that's haning on the new aquarium and put the new filter and bio wheel in the old Emperor on the established tank.. I also installed two new carbon filled heads at the tops of the two riser tubes for the under-gravel filter..

Next I added 4 Tetras and let the cycling begin.. The water went from gorgeous clear to milky white with bubbles all over the surface of the water in 24 hours.. It also looks like rolling dry-ice steam at the top of the tank in the water.. Is this just tiny bubbles?

Any advice, or is everything going as it should? When I set up my other aquarium I didn't know a thing about cycling, and I got the green opaque algae blossom and the tank cycled itself just by accident and at the cost of the lives of several fish.. I'm trying to go about this one the right way and patiently.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[damian09]

your ornament could be making your water cloudy

 

[unwritten law]

dry ice is prob just tiny bubbles...

Adding too much water conditioner can make it foamy, a bacteria bloom could make it cloudy initially, did you wash your gravel or mix it up? How long has it been like this? As long as the tetras are healthy looking, let it be cause a bacteria bloom will go away on its own and is completely normal in a newly cycling tank.

The bubbles could be due to excess ammonia as well. Do you have test kits or know your levels?

 

[KyleBradley]

your ornament could be making your water cloudy

Seriously? I ready about that somewhere, but the article I read said to only purchase ornaments from reputable fish stores, and I bought that one at PetCo! I'll take it out and see what happens after a few water changes.. I plan to change about 10% of the water a week during the cycling period.

 

[unwritten law]

I doubt the ornament is doing it if you bought it at petco...

 

[KyleBradley]

dry ice is prob just tiny bubbles...

Adding too much water conditioner can make it foamy, a bacteria bloom could make it cloudy initially, did you wash your gravel or mix it up? How long has it been like this? As long as the tetras are healthy looking, let it be cause a bacteria bloom will go away on its own and is completely normal in a newly cycling tank.

The bubbles could be due to excess ammonia as well. Do you have test kits or know your levels?

The tank has only been set up for a total of 4 days, so I'm sure my questions are premature, but one site where I read about cycling said the cycling should take 4-6 weeks and that the water will likely cloud up near the end of the cycle. So I was concerned when it became milky after only 24 hours.

I did wash the gravel in a strainer-well, a quick rinse to get the fines off.

The Tetras look fine-they're hiding in the corner, but do chase each other several times an hour and venture out across the length of the tank.. Their fins are fully extended, and they ate this morning.

I also did a water test last night just to get a baseline reading-all levels were normal-not even a trace of ammonia, nitrites or nitrates yet.. They haven't had much time to foul things up.. And the Ph was about 6.2-a little low, but I don't like to mess with Ph.. I just let my fish adjust to it, instead of using chemicals.


A question about the filter-as you can see in the picture, the suction tube reaches the bottom of the tank, and there is an adjustable suction area mid-way up to suck from the middle, as well.. Is it good to suck from both the bottom and the middle? I do have the option of eliminating the middle section and extension tube and just having a normal length suction tube.. One thing I don't like about this new, redesigned Emperor 280 is the lack of a flow control! My old one has a multi-position flow control,, and I turn it all the way down for feedings to extend the filter life.

 

[homebunnyj]

The cloudiness is likely from not rinsing your gravel more thoroughly. Speaking of which, IMHO you have a bit much gravel in there. It doesn't take much. The thicker the layer, the more stuff can collect in it and rot over time. Also, you don't need the undergravel and the hob filter both. I'd remove the undergravel. It's outdated technology that usually tends to be more trouble than it's worth.

Put away the aquarium salt and save it in case of ich. Tetras do not like salt in the water. There's no need for it anyway.

You probably just used too much AquaSafe. Measure it when you do water changes and it should clear up.

The suction adjustment is the flow control.

As for water changes during the cycling period, you can't really plan that. What you do is test daily once you begin getting ammonia readings, and whenever ammonia or nitrite is 1.0 or above, do a 50% water change... even if it's twice a day. You have to keep those parameters under control to avoid losing fish.

You can shorten the cycling by swishing the filter media of the established tank through the new tank every few days. Also you can put some of the gravel from the established tank into a mesh bag or even pantyhose and set it into your filter box or on the bottom near the intake.

 

[KyleBradley]

Thanks, Judy-that was a very informative post! I think I'll implement your suggestions as soon as I do my first water change.

 

[KyleBradley]

The cloudiness is likely from not rinsing your gravel more thoroughly.

I don't know if I buy that.. Here's a picture I took immediately after adding the gravel, and it would seem to me that if stuff was going to wash off the gravel and cloud up the water it would have done it as I poured it in on its way to the bottom as the water washed all around it..

It didn't cloud up until 24 hours later, and it just got progressively worse.

 

[KyleBradley]

Update: I have taken all the fish out of the tank after three days in it because I started feeling sorry for them.. I read that the inevitible Ammonia spikes burn their gills, and I didn't want to harm them.. They've pooped and peed in the tank for three days, so that will give the tank something to work on.. Also, since I put the biowheel from my established tank in the Emperor filter, I would imagine that I jump started it pretty well.. I did take the filter from my established tank and swish it around in the new tank today, too..

So now I'm kind of fishless cycling, but fish have initiated the new tank.. Here's hoping this goes smoothly.. I changed out 10 gallons of water tonight with fresh, and I took a bunch of gravel out as the result of an earlier recommendation.. I won't remove the under-gravel filter, however, because I've read mixed reviews on that.. Several cite kind of a "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality where there are more powerful and expensive filters out there.. I don't know what maintenance an UG filter can require, as a gravel vac will clean the gravel, and a shop vac on the riser tubes will clean the grate.. Replacing the air stones once a year doesn't bother me.. I like the aeration!

 

[vahluree]

Keep in mind that you do need to keep dosing the new tank with ammonia to sustain the bacterial population. If you leave this tank empty for too long, the bacteria will run out of food and die, hence, you will be back to square one with cycling.
Continue to monitor your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) daily with your test kits, but I'm afraid you won't see much going on without adding a source of ammonia...

Welcome back to the hobby, and good luck with your tanks!

 

[KyleBradley]

Keep in mind that you do need to keep dosing the new tank with ammonia to sustain the bacterial population. If you leave this tank empty for too long, the bacteria will run out of food and die, hence, you will be back to square one with cycling.
Continue to monitor your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) daily with your test kits, but I'm afraid you won't see much going on without adding a source of ammonia...

Welcome back to the hobby, and good luck with your tanks!

Thanks for the welcome.. What I have been doing is floating my bio-wheel from my established hex tank in the new tank every other day, or so.. Is this sufficient? I don't have any ammonia on hand and will have to purchase some if it's not.

 

[vahluree]

I really can't be sure...

Maybe you could sprinkle in a little fish food (flakes) to help generate some ammonia if you don't want to go out and buy pure ammonia. There is debate about this practice because some people claim it causes huge algae outbreaks. Since you are adding the biowheel, there should be some bacteria present to take care of the food. I would probably keep doing weekly 10% water changes. Check the water parameters daily (or even twice daily) so you can notice when changes are occurring.
edit- By changes, I mean ammonia or nitrite spikes, or increasing nitrates.

 

[KyleBradley]

I really can't be sure...

Maybe you could sprinkle in a little fish food (flakes) to help generate some ammonia if you don't want to go out and buy pure ammonia. There is debate about this practice because some people claim it causes huge algae outbreaks. Since you are adding the biowheel, there should be some bacteria present to take care of the food. I would probably keep doing weekly 10% water changes. Check the water parameters daily (or even twice daily) so you can notice when changes are occurring.
edit- By changes, I mean ammonia or nitrite spikes, or increasing nitrates.

Just to be clear, I am definitely looking to see an increase in ammonia before the cycle is complete, right? Because so far all numbers are, and have been, 0 ppm.

 

[homebunnyj]

You've starved your bacteria and are now back to square one. You must read more about fishless cycling in order to do it successfully.

 

[blue_ram]

Just to be clear, I am definitely looking to see an increase in ammonia before the cycle is complete, right? Because so far all numbers are, and have been, 0 ppm.

Did you test for nitrates? If you have nitrates and 0 ammonia and o nitrites, then your tank is cycled.

An established filter from a tank with a higher fish load will make "cycling" un-needed. Bacteria colonies will double every 8 hours so the tank could have had a bacteria bloom after only a day.

The moving of the biowheel between tanks will kill parts of it's bacteria colony thus defeating the purpose of doing it. Move the fish and filter back to the new tank and let it work itself out. If ammonia increases above .50 ppm, then do daily 25% water changes until it gets to 0. The fish will not be harmed.

The reason tanks take a long time to cycle from a fresh start is because even a doubling of the colony every 8 hours takes a long time to go from 1 bacteria to millions. While that is happening, the ammonia is accumulating in the tank faster than the growing colony can convert it.

 

[KyleBradley]

I did take the media filter and bio-wheel from my established tank and put in in my new tank immediately.. The cloudiness came after about 48 hours of filling it, 24 hours after adding 4 fish, but 3 days after that it cleared up overnight...

My reading the second night after setting up my tank were:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0

I'm using a fairly expensive kit from Petco that came with 4 vials and all the chemicals for testing Ph, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and High Ph.. I'm not using the strip test kits, which I have found unreliable.

And today my readings are still all 0.. I've not detected ammonia yet during this cycle, which started last Friday! Here's a picture of the tank tonight, 4 days after it clouded up, which was 1 day after I filled it:

Remember, here it was just 2 days ago, three days after I filled it and added 4 small fish:

I don't know if it's possible for it to have cycled that fast, but under a week, even with an established filter and bio-wheel introduced, seems too fast..

 

[KyleBradley]

You've starved your bacteria and are now back to square one. You must read more about fishless cycling in order to do it successfully.

I did read several sources about it, and I do appreciate your help, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat. I am constantly introducing the bio-wheel and filter from my established tank, as well as an ornament, and I have been taking readings daily.. Even with 4 fish in it for 3 days, the ammonia level was undetectable..

I kow this has to be a completely new cycling, as the gravel is new, the charcoal heads on the UG filter are new, and the tank was scrubbed with Greased Lightning to get all the crap off of it-it was filthy!! So I'm sure that it was not a healthy environment for fish.. But the fish were happy as anything with extended fins, chasing each other, eating fine, etc..

I took the advice of another member and added two crayfish to the tank tonight.. They're supposed to be hardy, so let's see what they can do to the tank... I just felt stupid having a tank going, heaters, filters, air pump and light, running up my electric bill with no fish in it.. So far the crayfish have been fun to watch, but I don't know how well they'll do in a tropical tank that is around 77 degrees when I read that they like it between 41 and 68 degrees...

 

[jingles]

I agree with homebunnyj, adding the bio-wheel will just move the bacteria and those bacteria need to "eat" the ammonia but you have none in your tank....and it going to take alot of crap from the two crayfish to start the cycle which if you haven't seen any ammonia spike hasn't happened..IMO your over filtering your tank..so it is going to take away but your kinda on the right track just take homebunnyj's advice and read miss fishy's sticky in the beginners section if you haven't already

Welcome to the Tank!

 

[KyleBradley]

I agree with homebunnyj, adding the bio-wheel will just move the bacteria and those bacteria need to "eat" the ammonia but you have none in your tank....and it going to take alot of crap from the two crayfish to start the cycle which if you haven't seen any ammonia spike hasn't happened..IMO your over filtering your tank..so it is going to take away but your kinda on the right track just take homebunnyj's advice and read miss fishy's sticky in the beginners section if you haven't already

Welcome to the Tank!

Overfiltering? I didn't know that was possible.. How about, then, I turn off my hang-on filter and just keep the UG filter going, since it's not as powerful..

But you think that I will definitely see an ammonia spike at some point?

I'll go get some ammonia and do as I'm told.... Sorry-sometimes I'm not very obedient...