Cycling Question

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#1
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#1
Ok so I just moved 2 hours sunday, to college, and I brought my 10g and 29g (empty) gallon tanks. So my first question is when I moved the 10g I kept only the gravel and plants in the water from the tank so my driftwood and other decorations semi-dried out. So I thought they I might have to mini-cycle the ten gallon tank but I just checked the chemistry and it was NH3/NH4-0ppm, No2-0ppm, No3- 5ppm. The cycle must be complete right? I wasn't expecting it to be so quick.

The second is my 10g is massively over stocked and I want to start cycling the 29g so I can transferring my fish/inverts. Is it safe to go ahead and seed the 29g now with the old filter, old gravel, plant, etc. while moving the shoal of tetras? Should I wait till the fish calm down more?

P.S. I plan to move the Tetras, plecos(after the cycle), and crayfish(after the cycle) to the 29g. Does that sound ok? Thanks!
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

Forum Manager
Moderator
#2
May 16, 2003
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Colorado
#2
Are you going to be keeping both tanks running? If not, and your filter is rated high enough for the 29...I'd just switch everything over now. If you are going to be starting up a new filter and keeping both tanks running, I'd be more inclined to work on a fishless cycle with the 29 and speed it up by swishing the filter cartridge from your 10 in the 29 every couple of days.
 

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#3
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#3
yea I was going to keep both tanks running but my baby eel died yesterday, so I don't know. If I was going to do a fishless cycle I'd move the 10g filter to the 29 and the 29 filter to the 10 until I started to see something. Now that the eels gone I hesitant to get everything started.
oh and the filter for my 29 is a penguin 200 so I think it's good.
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#4
May 16, 2003
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#4
I would definitely disagree with switching the filters completely :) You need to keep the filter on the established tank so that that tank stays stable and your fish are ok. You would add a source of ammonia to the cycling tank/filter. When you're 'cycling a tank' you are really cycling the filter by growing a sufficient colony of bacteria on it. When you have another filter handy that is already cycled, and you swish/squeeze/scrape etc that filter into the cycling filter, you are transferring some of those good bacteria. Then you put it back where it can grow some more bacteria for you to transfer over. If you were to just switch the filters it isn't really going to have the effect you want...

If you decide not to keep the 10 going, you could move everything from the 10 to the 29 and then run both filters on the 29 for a couple of weeks to transfer bacteria over to the new filter...or if your media is interchangeable you could switch it over to the 29 and wa-la instant cycle ;) You might watch for a slight spike just from the move etc, but it'll probably be ok.
 

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#5
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#5
ohhh ok so just switch the media, that makes a lot of sense thanks!

Yea I'm think I'm going to keep the 10g (I really miss my eel and want to try to keep one again) and do a fishless cycle. I hope I can do it right I've read a whole lot about it but never put it into practice. The first tank I had I cycled by accident but lucky I had a lot of plants to soak up the nh3/nh4. So I'll give it a shot.

On a side note for the future how would you define fine gravel? (would flourite be fine? or too sharp)
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#6
May 16, 2003
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#6
not sure on the gravel...why?

Fishless cycles are relatively easy, you just need your test kits and some ammonia. Set the 29 up like you want, make sure there is plenty of splashing from the filter (ie have the water down a little lower than usual), and turn the heat up to 80ish. Add a little bit of ammonia and let it mix for an hour or two, and use your test kit. You want to put enough ammonia in there so that after it is thoroughly distributed in the water it reads about the middle of your test kit's range...so it is easy to see when it starts going down. You don't want to put too much in. Don't switch the media from your 10 to the 29...you want to leave it in the 10...but every couple of days you want to SWISH it in your 29...squeeze it etc to transfer over some bacteria. And of course everyone here will be more than willing to help you out :)
 

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#7
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#7
So add 1-2 ppm of ammonia into the tank? ok that sounds easy enough thanks! ohh ok so now I understand the bio-wheel, it just houses the bacteria. If I had an established one I'd move it to the a new tank(just for future reference).

The gravel question just pertained to my eel. I was wondering if it might have cut him.
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#8
May 16, 2003
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#8
Yeah...aim for like 2-4 so you can tell when the level has gone down significantly. I know it was hard for me to believe how long it took the ammonia to mix in the tank...so go slowly :) Let it mix for a few hours or overnight before you add more.
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#12
May 16, 2003
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#12
Yeah, but unless you pretty much fill the tank with quickly growing plants you probably wont see much affect on the chemical levels during a cycle. If you were to get the ammonia too high I have heard of certain plants "melting", but if you see any of your levels going down a lot and another one not going up...the plants may be causing it.
 

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#13
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#13
um.. Plant people can call me out on this because I only really know about unaquatic plants but the same should apply. Well aquatic plants would have a higher tolerance of ammonia I think. Plants don't consume ammonia and high doses hurt plants(thus the burning affect), plants consume Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus. In the air(or water I guess) they absorb C02. So they might help break down ammonium but I doupt it I'm sure they just take in N02/N03. BUT this is just my theory that my father help me with (horticulture major) and I have no proof but I am a chem. eng. so I do know a little bit about chem.

anyways I got the NH3/NH4 and I was going to dose the tank but it is still super clouding and brown from the flourite so I guess I'll wait till it cleans up
 

O

OrangeCones

Elite Fish
#14
Feb 27, 2009
4,395
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36
#14
jingles said:
um.. Plant people can call me out on this because I only really know about unaquatic plants but the same should apply. Well aquatic plants would have a higher tolerance of ammonia I think. Plants don't consume ammonia and high doses hurt plants(thus the burning affect), plants consume Potassium, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus.
Click to expand...
Aquatic plants do indeed consume ammonia/ammonium (depending on the pH of the water). They can get Nitrogen from it. If the levels were very high, I guess they could cause 'burns' on the plants, but I've never encountered any levels that high.

Plants, infact, prefer to consume ammonia first. If they have nitrites, they must expend energy to convert it to ammonia/ammonium to be consumed. Same for nitrates, must be converted to nitrites and then to ammonia/ammonium to be consumed (backwards of the process of nitrifying bacteria).

This link explains the process in much more detail, and is more for the 'chemist':

Aqua Botanic - Plants and biological filtration
 

Last edited:
jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#15
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#15
thanks for setting me straight. That website was really good too, thank you.

My tank is still brown so I guess I'll do a water change and then start trying to cycle it. I guess I should have rinsed the flourite first but I didn't think it be this bad. oh well
 

jingles

jingles

Medium Fish
#16
Jan 28, 2009
76
0
0
Auburn, AL
#16
Do I need to have my filter going while the tank is cycling? I figure I should but I don't want to stir up the dust from the flourite, because my tank looks like chocolate milk, gross. Should I wait till the waters clear to start cycling?
 

Ravenstar

Ravenstar

Medium Fish
#19
Feb 27, 2009
56
0
0
#19
Yes, your filter needs to be running during the cycle. If it's not running, the bacteria aren't going to grow in it; they can't just hop out of the tank and onto your filter media. :3

Cloudiness can be caused by a number of things. You said you had driftwood, didn't you? A brown/rusty color water is from driftwood releasing tannins into the water. It's not harmful, it's just a bit unsightly. If you're concerned it's your gravel, it may be, especially if you didn't rinse it first. A good idea is to always rinse anything you're about to put in your tank in warm water to ensure that any leftover gunk is gotten off before it cruds up your tank. A milky cloudiness is a good thing, it means you've got a bacteria bloom and your cycle is getting right along. A green cloudiness means you have algae, and you should take proper steps to get rid of it. :3

I've never had fluorite for gravel...is it chunks of polished semi-precious stone or is it just rocks that have some fluorite in them?
 

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