Fishy's Sick and dying!!

[jonny steele]

Ok, i recently got a 10 gallon tank. I filled it with water (used tetra water conditioner) and got all new gravel, decor, new ex20 power filter, heater.... and let it run for a few days before i put fish in there.

Ibe got the water temp to about 75, and the ammon level is at 0 but ph is kinda high, just above 7.8.

So i added some fish Monday, 2 mollys and a sucker fish and one angle fish, all small. They all seemed to be find except later that night, one molly looked like it was having trouble breathing and kept hovering over my air stone. he died the next morning. The other fish are fine. Then the tank got really foggy, i dont know why.

So then i go yesterday and get 3 new fish...2 goldfish, cheapos to help build up the bact in the tank since its new and one more angle fish (my wife said the other one was lonley). All seemed well except one gold fish right away was having probs breathing and was spazing out, twitching and floating on its side, or just fell to the bottom. I added some more ph down and water clear and cranked up the air flow, and he seems to be doing better this morning.

What could have caused this? Ive had tanks when i was younger, but nothing special. My wife keeps getting upset and doesnt want anymore to die, plus for easter i want to get her this fish she wants real bad, and its $25 and dont want it to die.

 

[phin]

Stop adding fish for the time being. You're tank needs to cycle, and only began to when you added the first fish. The problems your fish are having are due to amonia toxicity.

It can take 4-6 weeks for your tank to fully cycle. Read about fishless cycling here. Also, goldfish and tropical fish don't go together and need different requirements - temperature being the main one. And your 10 gallon tank is too small for an angel fish, let alone two. I'm sure other members will add more specifics to your questions, but until your tank is cycled don't add any more fish.

Another good resource for you to check out is AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor. Good luck.

 

[jonny steele]

Thanks, but i check the ammonia level and its at 0. I bought the ph and ammonia tester kits.

I plan on getting a bigger tank at the end of the year, right now the angel fish are the size of a nickel, there tiny.

When i was a kid, i had an aquarium and never heard of cycles before, i always drained the water and refilled it, my fish never died then, must have gotten lucky, ive since read up on cycles, lol.

 

[phin]

I don't know what to tell you then. If you just put fish into a brand new tank that has only been running for a few days the fish will produce ammonia and there will be no nitrosomonas to feed on the ammonia and convert it into nitrite. In addition your tank won't have colonies of nitrobacter to feed on the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. This isn't my opinion as much as it is science.

What type of test kit are you using, liquit or test strips?
How long have you had fish in your tank exactly and what is today's reading for NH3?

 

[OrangeCones]

Thanks, but i check the ammonia level and its at 0.

What test kit are you using for ammonia? You should be checking ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

The ammonia builds up over time. I'd find it unusual that its 'zero' if you have fish in there.

Goldfish need 20 gallons for 1 and 10 gallons for each additional one. Even one goldfish alone is too much for your 10gallon tank.

Just my 2cents.
OC

 

[jonny steele]

Im using the liquid drops, kinda like the ones you use when testing ph of a swimming pool, and same for the ammonia, not the test strips, but the glass tube and drops.

I put the gold fish in there (baby gold fish) to help build up the tanks cycle.

The tank has been up and running since sun night, put brand new gravel, decor, power filter.....then monday night i added the fish and change power filter to the tetra ex20 (old one was noisy as hell). Then in the morning one molly died, tested ph, is read 8.0. Tuesday i tested ph and ammonia, ph was 7.8 ammonia was 0, then added new angle fish and 2 gold fish.

So right now i have 1 molly, 2 goldfish, 2 angle fish and a sucker fish.

P.s, just got word that the sick goldfish is acting much better now! It seems that turning the air way up and adding the clearing drops helped. Tank is still foggy tho.

 

[littletankbigworld]

Get rid of both goldfish, both angelfish, and the sucker fish. If you mean a common pleco when you say sucker fish, they need at least a 55 gallon tank. Angelfish need at least a 40 gallon tall tank. Two goldfish need at the very minimum 30 to 40 gallons. Also, goldfish are COLDWATER fish and everything else is WARMWATER fish. The goldfish will not help to cycle the tank. They will make it worse and your tank will take triple the time to cycle, or may never even cycle at all. Please get rid of ALL fish except for the molly. I would just get rid of the molly, too, and do a fishless cycle.

pH is the least important at the moment. What are your readings for nitrite and nitrate? I also find it impossible to have 0 ammonia. Are you sure you are using the liquid kit right? Is the kit expired?
Your tank is foggy because you have wayyyy too many fish and not enough bacteria. Please return all your fish but the molly. It doesn't matter that the fish are just babies. They cannot live together in a 10 gallon tank.

 

[jonny steele]

ok, well i found out that the test color chart i was using was for saltwater, i found the freshwater one, and my ammonia was at 4.0, i added some ammonia killer.

All the fish seem to be doing fine as of now. I found out my baby angle fish died yesterday, not sure of cuase, i could find him for hours, searched the ENTIRE tank, no luck, then founf him later floating.

I cant get rid of the fish yet, i havnt gotten my bigger tank. I dont think they will grow to a size thats to big for my tank in a month or so. Plus my wife will be upset

 

[Doomhed]

OK, well i found out that the test color chart i was using was for saltwater, i found the freshwater one, and my ammonia was at 4.0, i added some ammonia killer.

All the fish seem to be doing fine as of now. I found out my baby angle fish died yesterday, not sure of cause, i could find him for hours, searched the ENTIRE tank, no luck, then found him later floating.

I cant get rid of the fish yet, i haven't gotten my bigger tank. I don't think they will grow to a size that's to big for my tank in a month or so. Plus my wife will be upset

the reason he died is because your nitrates and nitrite are most likely off the chart. well, that and 4ppm ammonia to a young fish with a delicate immune system.

What will upset your wife more, having you return most of the fish, or watching her little friends die a miserable death? I have a wife that loves animals too, and I assure you, she was more upset at the 2 fish we have seen die (a sick "rescue" betta and a sickly "rescued" oto catfish) than she is at the idea of us returning her angelfish when he grows too big for our 25g Tall tank in about 2 more months. He was only roughly 2 mos old when I got him, and he will outgrow my tank in another 3 months or so according to the angel experts here. Your Tank is half the height of mine, meaning you don't have the luxury of time I do.

I started up my newest tank literally 2 mos ago. My lovely wife wanted an angelfish immediately, I made her wait until the tank was established, and he has tripled in size in 1 month because his tank conditions are healthy. The tank is new, but yet I already have fish breeding in the tank (that are not supposed to be breed-able in home Aquaria) and producing seemingly viable offspring.

We are not trying to upset your wife or berate you, just trying to help you do things the easiest way.

I would return the angel, the goldfish and the "sucker fish" and use just the molly.

 

[jonny steele]

I thought sucker fishes only got as big as the tank? I had one before in an 18 gallon, and he lived in it for 8 years and way only about 8" long.

I see what yall are saying, im going to maybe invest in a bigger tank sooner than later.

What fish are good fish for a 10g

 

[Doomhed]

well, I may be a bit biased, but I believe platies are the best beginner fish for the home aquarium. They are sturdy, tolerant of a wide array of conditions (they naturally live in mexican streams if it tells you anything about water condition tolerance). This includes temperature. Platies can survive in water in the low 70's and high 60's if your heater gets unplugged or breaks. They live around 4 years or so and grow quickly, so the ones you find in a pet store are likely only a few months old and have plenty of years left on them.

I had one male that I used to use for tank setups, he was quite the feisty fish.

 

[jonny steele]

well, I may be a bit biased, but I believe platies are the best beginner fish for the home aquarium. They are sturdy, tolerant of a wide array of conditions (they naturally live in mexican streams if it tells you anything about water condition tolerance). This includes temperature. Platies can survive in water in the low 70's and high 60's if your heater gets unplugged or breaks. They live around 4 years or so and grow quickly, so the ones you find in a pet store are likely only a few months old and have plenty of years left on them.

I had one male that I used to use for tank setups, he was quite the feisty fish.

Thanks!

One more question, what exactly is a tank cycle, and how many times does it happen? How will i know its happening?

 

[littletankbigworld]

When your tank cycles, the filter is building up good bacteria. The good bacteria converts ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrate. All of these are extremely dangerous to fish, but nitrate is slightly less dangerous than ammonia and nitrite. The only thing that can remove nitrate is water changes. While your tank is cycling, you will need to do daily or bi-daily water changes. When your tank is established, weekly water changes will suffice. Cycling will take about 1 month. During this period, it is extremley harmful to fish but water changes help. There are fish-in and fishless cycle. If you have fish in the aquarium, this is the fish-in cycle. For fishless cycling, you must have no fish in the tank and add pure ammonia without surfactants from a bottle. For fish-in cycles, Prime Water Dechlorinator is a great product. It removes ammonia. Do not fall for the bacteria in a bottle sitting on the shelf of your fish store. This stuff rarely works and might only work if it has been refridgerated on its way to the store and while it is at the store. Most bacteria/cycling products are just a scam.

Also, there is an established cycling method, where you add material from other cycled tanks.

 

[jonny steele]

Well, i guess im doing the fish in cycle. As of now, all the fish are doing good. I have 1 molly, 1 small angel fish, 2 small gold fish and 1 sucker fish. They are all tiny and will be getting a bigger tank at the end of the year. My ammonia level was at 4 yesterday so i added some tetra ammonia killer. My ph has been around 7.8-8.0 and have been adding ph down. The tank also got foggy, so i added some tetra water clear which help but i think it was only like that b/c i was trying to restrict the flow of my filter (to powerful) and it wasnt working enough.

So when doing water changes, can i just use the gravel cleaning tube and clean the gravel and when the tank level reaches %50, then add the water back to top using tap water conditioner first?

 

[phin]

The pH is not very important right now. Ditch the pH down and leave your pH alone. It is more important to provide a stable pH to your fish than to have a specific pH. Odds are, if your pH is 7.8-8.0 even a whole bottle of pH down won't move your pH any since you probably have high alkalinity/buffering capacity. The only way you will be able to maintain a lower pH is to fill your tank with RO water and then additives to acheive your desired pH. BTW - not something I am recommending you try and do.

You say you are getting a bigger tank at the end of the year. That is 8 months away. Other members of this site have already told you you don't have room in your tank for the fish you have now - the angel fish will outgrow your tank in a couple months.

My suggestion is to take the advice people on this site are giving you. I have and it has educated and helped me tremendously.

 

[Cammie]

Hi Jonny,

This site is fantastic and the advice is amazing, the one most important piece of advice I can give you as a Teenie fish too, is to listen to the people giving advice! It may not be want you want to hear right now (I was the same, I just wanted fish asap!) but it's better learning what you need to know before you lose anymore fish Don't add all those pH down and other stuff - it's a waste of money! Water change, water change, water change! My pH is 8.0 - really high but that is just the water here and this isn't a problem, it becomes a problem when you try to change it, fish need a steady environment.
Just be patient and it will be all worth it I know it is for me, I have great healthy fish (well a poorly molly at the moment) and I know how to care for them correctly all formt he advice on this forum x x x x x x x

 

[bassbonediva]

I hate that myth that "sucker fish," or any fish, really, only grow to the size of the tank they're in. It is SO untrue. I had a pleco in my 18gal tall tank for three weeks. In that three weeks he went from being about 3" long to being almost 6" long and produced so much waste that he actually fouled my filter and I had to tear it down completely to clean it. IF a fish stops growing before it reaches its maximum, healthy size in a too-small aquarium, it is most likely because it is stunted by lack of space. Stunting is horrible for fish as their body stops growing, but their organs do not.

About changing your pH. Don't do it. Call your local fish store where you got the fish and ask them what they're pH is at. Chances are that if they're in the same area as you and run off the same municipal water, their pH is the same as yours so the fish are already acclimated to it. I used some of that pH crap in my 46gal bowfront when I was having algae issues (at the suggestion of my LFS...they told me it'd help get my ammonia and nitrites under control) and I had a horrible bacterial bloom that made my tank cloudy and was a pain to clean up after.

I agree with everyone else. Get rid of everything but the molly and let your tank finish cycling before you put any more fish through the agony of ammonia poisoning. I also agree with Doom about the platies. I have six of them and they are just the neatest little fish. Even in my 55gal where I've had several mysterious deaths of seemingly healthy fish (and my tank is fully cycled) my platies are still breeding and dropping fry like it's going out of style.

 

[littletankbigworld]

I forgot to comment on the stunted growth. This is totally not true and just a myth that was created to make people feel better about abusing their fish! What happens when a fish is kept in too small a tank is this: The fish's body releases a growth-stunting hormone. This hormone stunts the growth of the skeleton, but not the organs. The organs continue to grow but since the skeleton is too small, they burst or become compressed. The fish dies from organ failure. Keeping large fish in a small tank is cruel and immoral, even if the fish are just "babies."

I suggest getting rid of EVERYTHING, including the molly and doing a fishless cycle. Your molly will experience trauma from fish-in cycling. If you do decide to keep the molly, you must do daily water changes and test your water every day!

DO NOT wait for a larger tank! Your fish will experience serious trauma by the time you get a larger tank. Even if you do get a larger tank, you still CANNOT keep goldfish with tropical fish! So, unless you plan on getting a 55+ gallon tank for the tropical fish and a 30+ gallon tank for the goldfish right now, get rid of the fish.

Also, stop adding chemicals to your tank! As someone else mentioned, this is not a good idea at all!

 

[jonny steele]

ok, well im now in search for a larger tank. Prob around a 35g for now. Trying to find a good deal, ill need to pretty much start over since none of my equipment will work for a tank that big. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[littletankbigworld]

Are you taking back all of your fish but the molly? None of the tropical fish you have can live in a 35 gallon tank, except for the molly.
If you want to keep your two goldfish in the 35 gallon, you can, but nothing else other than the 2 goldfish.