Still Cycling, 10G, AC20, 1 Betta, 6 Small Plants, can I add several small fish yet?

[michaelg210]

I am cycling with a single male betta. Long story short, it was a gift for my daughter’s birthday from her cousin. Started out in a small 2L bowl, and I have been steadily improving the poor little guy’s environment.

I have a 10G Tank w/ Hood and 2 10 Watt Sun Lights. AquaClear 20 Filter w/ Factory Sponge, Poly Fill, and Ceramic Bio Max. Just added several plants, 1 is a small anubia, the other 5 or 6 are 4 – 6 inch plants, long, thin pointed green leaves with yellow-white edges. I will have to go back and find out which kind they are.

Either way, I doubt a single betta can create enough waste to sustain the plants / substrate etc.

Should I perhaps add a few compatible fish to assist in the process?

Tank is currently cycling, so don’t wish to make things worse re: NH//4, NO2 and NO3. Ammonia is currently under control with PWCs as needed. No sign of Nitrites yet.

 

[rubbaducky92]

I would strongly recommend just waiting, I added another fish while my tank was cycling and one day the nits spiked off the charts. It's hard on the fish and though one fish may not put much waste out, it'll still get the job done =]

 

[rubbaducky92]

Just read another one of your posts about not having any nitrites yet, all the more reason to wait on the fish. Betta's are exceptionally adaptable, being able to breathe air and water, but other fish may not be so lucky. No nitrites means you're at the very beginning of the cycle. Found this that I think helped myself some too...

http://www.rusticgirls.com/images/fish-tank-nitrogen-cycle.gif

Oh! And I'm the one who killed my fish with the conditioned tap water... I've always done it that way but I had put some stuff in the tank to make the water clear and... it threw the ph out of line. From now on I think I'll be holding them in old tank water while I put new water in their main tank lol

You know... you could probably put the betta in a plain old fish bowl and do a tankless cycle. I've been reading and supposedly it's faster. You can add ammonia straight to the tank rather than rely on the fish to produce waste. Dunno, just a suggestion. Another member linked me this:

Fishless Cycle

 

[OrangeCones]

Doing a fish-in cycle with the betta will require frequent water changes to keep the fish healthy. What dechlorinator do you use? Do you have a liquid test kit to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? pH changes during water changes are not anything to worry about for your fish. Until the tank is completely cycled, I would not add any additional fish. If your LFS sells it, pick up an "Ammonia Alert" disk. They are helpful to let you know when you need to do a water change when the ammonia gets too high. They last a year, so the $6 or so they cost is not that much.

Just added several plants, 1 is a small anubia, the other 5 or 6 are 4 – 6 inch plants, long, thin pointed green leaves with yellow-white edges. I will have to go back and find out which kind they are.

Either way, I doubt a single betta can create enough waste to sustain the plants / substrate etc.

The anubias plant does not need a lot of fertilization, they are a slow growing plant. Make sure you do not have that plant planted in the substrate. It needs to be attached to something (a rock, driftwood, other tank deco).

The others I suspect are not aquatic (a photo would be helpful to determine that for sure). By your description, it sounds like what is commonly sold as "Mondo Grass" or "Ribbon Plant," neither of which are aquatic.

 

[michaelg210]

Using Prime and API Freshwater Test Kit

Doing a fish-in cycle with the betta will require frequent water changes to keep the fish healthy. What dechlorinator do you use? Do you have a liquid test kit to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? pH changes during water changes are not anything to worry about for your fish. Until the tank is completely cycled, I would not add any additional fish. If your LFS sells it, pick up an "Ammonia Alert" disk. They are helpful to let you know when you need to do a water change when the ammonia gets too high. They last a year, so the $6 or so they cost is not that much.



The anubias plant does not need a lot of fertilization, they are a slow growing plant. Make sure you do not have that plant planted in the substrate. It needs to be attached to something (a rock, driftwood, other tank deco).

The others I suspect are not aquatic (a photo would be helpful to determine that for sure). By your description, it sounds like what is commonly sold as "Mondo Grass" or "Ribbon Plant," neither of which are aquatic.

I was doing up to 3 huge water changes daily say 50 + percent, then got it down to two.... unfortunately I have made various changes to bigger tanks, various filters, and substrate, but tried using same water on initial transplant with same media and ran either both filters or used previous sponge(es) as pre-filter. Anyway, been doing 2x per day PWC's and the percentages of H20 removed/replaced are dropping. However another stupid thing was I started running a 50% ammochip/50% carbon filter as one of the 3 filter inserts in my AC20 filter. Then I realized might stall the cycle and removed it. Replaced it with Poly Fill.

Thanks for the tip on the amonia alert disk, I have seen similar products, but thought they were not any good, just an assumption. Seachem I would trust, which I found is the mfg by googling.

I think you are right on both the ribbon grass and not aquatic as best I can tell.... I was trying to find Java Moss or Java Fern, but could not.

I do not understand what you mean on the anubias, though? Do I tie it to something?

PS... am checking ammonia level 2x daily, runs between 0 just after a water change to up .25 ppm 12- 14 hours later.

 

[OrangeCones]

Thanks for the tip on the amonia alert disk, I have seen similar products, but thought they were not any good, just an assumption. Seachem I would trust, which I found is the mfg by googling.

I was leary of products such as these but I, too, trust the manufacturer so tried it. I did a 'fishless' cycle with one to test it out and it worked like a charm.

If using their Prime as a dechlorinator, you can bind the ammonia the disk shows is there, so that you can keep your fish safe from high ammonia. It will save you from having to do so many water tests. The tests will still show high ammonia if it tests for 'total ammonia,' but you can confirm with the Ammonia Alert that the ammonia form is not toxic.

I do not understand what you mean on the anubias, though? Do I tie it to something?

Yes. It produces a grasping root that will hold it to something in your tank. You should see a thick horizontal root on the plant. This is the rhizome, and cannot be burried. Here is a diagram:

http://www.killitank.dk/images/Anubias barteri var. nana.jpg

I use cotton thread to tie them down to a medium sized rock. By the time the thread decays, the grasping roots have grown around the object to hold it in place. I can also bury the rock so its out of sight if its not want I want in the aquascape.

 

[michaelg210]

good idea, i actually wanted to do that, but the 5G tank i was planning on keeping for a spare got vetoed, so I ended up with the tank I wanted 10G, but no spare.

Would have to keep him in a small bowl meantime.

 

[michaelg210]

...If using their Prime as a dechlorinator, you can bind the ammonia the disk shows is there, so that you can keep your fish safe from high ammonia. It will save you from having to do so many water tests. The tests will still show high ammonia if it tests for 'total ammonia,' but you can confirm with the Ammonia Alert that the ammonia form is not toxic..

Knew Prime binds, but did not know either how well or that a prod. could determine levels that mattered, this is very good info....

...Yes. It produces a grasping root that will hold it to something in your tank. You should see a thick horizontal root on the plant. This is the rhizome, and cannot be burried. Here is a diagram:

http://www.killitank.dk/images/Anubias barteri var. nana.jpg

I use cotton thread to tie them down to a medium sized rock. By the time the thread decays, the grasping roots have grown around the object to hold it in place. I can also bury the rock so its out of sight if its not want I want in the aquascape.

Ok, i got it, thought perhaps that was what you meant once I saw the pick, but mine looks nothing like that, so I never would have made that quantum leap. The one in the pick is a tree compared to my shrub....

 

[OrangeCones]

Prime's 'binding' of ammonia only lasts a day or so if I remember from communicating with Seachem. it does not interfer with the nitrogen cycle either.

Given time, your shrub will grow. Be patient

I just found that image online and posted it as it clearly show the horizontal rhizome vs. the grasping roots. You can trim the ends off of your plant's existing grasping roots and it will encourage them to grow to attach to something more quickly.

 

[michaelg210]

Don't recall I ever answered on Test Kit

Prime's 'binding' of ammonia only lasts a day or so if I remember from communicating with Seachem. it does not interfer with the nitrogen cycle either.

Given time, your shrub will grow. Be patient

I just found that image online and posted it as it clearly show the horizontal rhizome vs. the grasping roots. You can trim the ends off of your plant's existing grasping roots and it will encourage them to grow to attach to something more quickly.

Using API Complete Fresh Water Test Kit

 

[michaelg210]

Tying down the rhizomes

.......Yes. It produces a grasping root that will hold it to something in your tank. You should see a thick horizontal root on the plant. This is the rhizome, and cannot be burried. Here is a diagram:

http://www.killitank.dk/images/Anubias barteri var. nana.jpg

I use cotton thread to tie them down to a medium sized rock. By the time the thread decays, the grasping roots have grown around the object to hold it in place. I can also bury the rock so its out of sight if its not want I want in the aquascape.

Someone told me they used to tie a thread to a "washer" to weigh them down.... dunno bout that.

Also, I ordered a few little tree-like decos for the tank, was gonna tie some of the java ferns i wish to order to them. What is cotton thread? i.e. like the kind for sewing, or is it an actual special thread?

Where do you get ur java ferns online?

 

[OrangeCones]

What is cotton thread? i.e. like the kind for sewing, or is it an actual special thread?

Just regular sewing thread, made from cotton (instead of polyester or nylon, etc).

Where do you get ur java ferns online?

I traded to get my original java ferns with another hobbyist. Once you have one, if you take care of it, you'll have plenty

 

[lauraf]

In my experience with anubias, as long as the rhizome is left exposed, you actually can put them directly in gravel, and if they have enough of a root system, they will stay. If you prefer that look. Otherwise tying them to a rock as OrangeCones suggested is great.
Also, you can use fishing line for tying plants to stuff if you don't have sewing thread. It won't dissolve like the cotton does, but it's practically invisible.

 

[OrangeCones]

I only use cotton thread as it dissolves over time, so that I don't have to cut fishing line when its no longer needed.

I've forgotten the fishing line is there and have severed the plant when the roots grew too large. It doesn't hurt the plant, but I was trying to grow it in the place I'd put it and it ruined 'the look' I was after.

 

[lauraf]

I only use cotton thread as it dissolves over time, so that I don't have to cut fishing line when its no longer needed.

I've forgotten the fishing line is there and have severed the plant when the roots grew too large. It doesn't hurt the plant, but I was trying to grow it in the place I'd put it and it ruined 'the look' I was after.

Fair 'nuf. Great alternative to fishing line for exactly the reason you state.

 

[michaelg210]

Using API Complete Fresh Water Test Kit

Hey Orange,

The Java Fern is a substrate plant, right? I got the anubia looking really good, the crypts are coming along nicely.

Not sure on the ferns, they look like substrate roots, or do i tie them and let the roots wrap around?

Thanks
mjg

 

[OrangeCones]

A Java fern is treated the same as the anubias. Just don't bury the horizontal rhizome and it will do just fine. Tying it to something is the easiest way to plant it. If the size of the plant is sufficient that you can weigh it down with a few pieces of gravel (without burying it), it can root directly into the substrate. As lauraf stated with the anubias, it works for any rhizome plants.

It kinda depends on the fish too. My otos zip around the tank too much to do the gravel method, they cause the plants to float, which is why I do the tying method. It worked fine in a tank I keep rasbora in.

 

[michaelg210]

ok, i don't see a rhizome or even a main root, just a little clump or hair-like roots, which is why i am confused. The anubia, is clear cut, 'cause one can differentiate, but the fern is just a dark brown clump. Either way I have 1 tied, and one wedged, neither is going anywhere, and both are just slightly above the substrate with someting to anchor around.

 

[OrangeCones]

It depends on how many leaves the fern has, if that horizontal root is clearly defined. As it adds more leaves, it is more noticable.

Sounds like you have the anchored properly Post some pics already!

 

[michaelg210]

It depends on how many leaves the fern has, if that horizontal root is clearly defined. As it adds more leaves, it is more noticable.

Sounds like you have the anchored properly Post some pics already!

just went to take a few pics, turns out i need batteries for the digital.... on my way to the store later anyway, will have to p/u some double A's.....

will post pics pronto.

PS.... Tank has finally hit the nitrite cycle.