A few beginning questions

[Kruse]

First off, I'd like to say that I have been spending a fair amount of time researching and reading guides about getting started...but there are still a few questions that I'd like some pointers on.

My plan has been to get a tank around 16-20 gallons. I've read the stuff about small tank issues and can understand the problems (I had gold fish in a 5 gallon tank as a kid and it was a lot of work). What would you guys recommend as good starting aquarium kits (or not using a kit at all)? I've noticed that Aqueon kits seem to be the most readily available, and the feedback on them is generally OK. I have been keeping an eye out on craigslist, but haven't really spotted anything that is the size I'd like. I don't have unlimited room, so the 16-20 gallon range seems like a good fit. Also, if not getting a kit...where is a good place to order the parts individually?

Next come a couple questions about establishing the tank. I am completely aware of, and fine with waiting a few weeks to do a fishless cycle. I simply want to do it right and not kill fish.

From what I've been reading, it is advised to put plants in the tank while it is cycling. What are your opinions on this?

Also, when cycling the tank, what impact does changing the filter have during the process? If it is recommended to change the filter once a month, but the cycle takes 6-8 weeks...should I just ignore that and not change the filter during the process?

Finally, using a bubbler. I've noticed that many tanks don't appear to have a bubbler. What are your recommendations on needing one?

I know some of these questions might be kind of elementary, but I appreciate your help and hope I can come back for more advice in the future (which I'm sure I'll need ).

 

[ryanoh]

If you're looking for specific parts, I'm not sure. I set up a 10 gallon using whatever was at Walmart, and it did well. I think the kits are usually pretty good, but I've never used one so I don't have much to offer. I did buy both my light and new filter for my 40 gallon from Amazon.com, and they seemed to have the lowest prices I could find online since they offered free shipping on both those items.

I had plants when I cycled my tank, and they did okay. Ammonia will probably kill plants, but not at the levels that will be in the aquarium unless you're adding lots of ammonia to get the cycle going. If you're using the decomposing fish food method, I think it would be okay.

Changing the filter cartridges is to renew the carbon in them, which is used to filter out certain things in the tank. I would leave them while you cycle, then maybe change them out when you get fish. You could probably even wait a little while after you put fish in to change it.

Any sort of bubbles or airstones help to break up the surface tension and let oxygen into your water. You don't have to do this as this is one of the reasons for a filter if you have the hang-on-back kind. Personally, I like bubbles in my tank and have two bubble rods. The only down side is if you're adding CO2 to help grow your plants, which is also totally optional, the carbon dioxide will be able to escape the water faster with the bubbles of air breaking the surface tension.

I'm not super pro at this yet, but hopefully I've answered a few of your questions.

 

[Thyra]

My suggestion is to do a search on this site on cycling or plants, etc. and then read and read and then ask more questions. There is a whole lot of info out there and some of it will be a little controversial but there are a lot of people interested in the well being of your fish. Take your time - its worth it.

 

[bassbonediva]

First off, I'd like to say that I have been spending a fair amount of time researching and reading guides about getting started...but there are still a few questions that I'd like some pointers on.

My plan has been to get a tank around 16-20 gallons. I've read the stuff about small tank issues and can understand the problems (I had gold fish in a 5 gallon tank as a kid and it was a lot of work). What would you guys recommend as good starting aquarium kits (or not using a kit at all)? I've noticed that Aqueon kits seem to be the most readily available, and the feedback on them is generally OK. I have been keeping an eye out on craigslist, but haven't really spotted anything that is the size I'd like. I don't have unlimited room, so the 16-20 gallon range seems like a good fit. Also, if not getting a kit...where is a good place to order the parts individually?

Next come a couple questions about establishing the tank. I am completely aware of, and fine with waiting a few weeks to do a fishless cycle. I simply want to do it right and not kill fish.

From what I've been reading, it is advised to put plants in the tank while it is cycling. What are your opinions on this?

Also, when cycling the tank, what impact does changing the filter have during the process? If it is recommended to change the filter once a month, but the cycle takes 6-8 weeks...should I just ignore that and not change the filter during the process?

Finally, using a bubbler. I've noticed that many tanks don't appear to have a bubbler. What are your recommendations on needing one?

I know some of these questions might be kind of elementary, but I appreciate your help and hope I can come back for more advice in the future (which I'm sure I'll need ).

Good for you for doing research BEFORE getting a tank set up!! *thumbsups

Okay, on to your questions. I'm not sure about any of the kits that are sold (I have bought all but two of my tanks used). The Aqueons seem like the best deal, but I'm not sure about their filters. I am not a fan of the AquaTech filters that come with the kits you buy at Walmart, though (even though I have a couple of them, it doesn't mean I like them, they're just what I can afford).

Cycling with plants is actually beneficial to your tank. Plants use ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for food, so they will help your cycle by keeping the amount of ammonia and nitrites in the tank in check. Good starter plants includ java moss, java fern, and anubias.

The reason manufacturers "recommend" you change your filter cartridge every four weeks is to make more money off of you. You are correct in thinking that changing your filter will throw off your cycle. Your filter media is the home of one of your biggest beneficial bacteria colonies once your tank is cycled. Throwing out all that beneficial bacteria when you change the media forces your tank into a severe imbalance (called a mini cycle) that will negatively impact your tank and fish. The general recommendation by people in the hobby is to only replace your filter media when it is literally starting to fall apart. When you do your weekly water changes, take your media out and rinse it in old tank water you've removed during your water change, and then stick it back in your filter. I don't even buy the pre-made filter cartridges anymore because I find activated carbon to be a waste of money (unless you're removing contaminants, tannins, or medication from your tank water). I buy the bulk blue filter pad from Petsmart for about $5, cut it to fit the slot for the filter cartridge in my filter, then stick it in there. When I do my water changes, I just squeeze the pad out into the bucket of old tank water and stick it back in the filter.

Bubblers are kind of a "personal choice" deal. Your filter should provide enough aeration/surface agitation if it is sized properly for your tank, so a bubbler isn't strictly necessary. Some people use them because they like the way they look, however. The only time extra aeration (via a bubble wand or air stone or bubbler decoration) is absolutely necessary is if you're using a medication (like MelaFix) that deoxygenates the water, or you have the temperature on the tank turned up to about 82F (generally, your basic tropical community prefers a tank temp of about 78F, however there are a few species--bettas, rams, angels, to name a few--that prefer higher temps. Really the only reason you would be raising the temp in a tank above 82F would be if you were battling an ick infestation, but that's a bridge you can jump off of IF you get there.

 

[Dylandrewsdad]

Welcome and Kudos to you for researching!

I have never bought a new fish tank and usually get used equipment as well. I would be searching Craigslist for deals. Even if the ad states "firm" of something like that, if it has been up for a few days I would go look at it and offer what you can afford. Just make sure you clean the stuff very well before using it. (No soap, a little bleach or white vinegar only)

As far as plants, they are beneficial while cycling as they speed up the cycle by using the Nitrites....

+1 to Bass (you owe me now....LOL) on the filter thing. They tell you to replace them so you buy more. Depending on the filter you purchase, I like Aqua Clear or Marineland; you can rinse the mechanical filter in clean dechlorinated water and re-use it. You DO NOT do anything with the biological media, just leave it alone. I do not use carbon unless there is a reason too. This is the only thing they have right that you need to replace somewhat frequently as it losses it's ability to remove organic and inorganic materials rather quickly (a few days really) so in short, no need to do anything with the filter media while cycling in a fishless cycle.

Bubblers-I do not use them unless, again like Bass said, there is a need too. The reason to use them besides the look would be to help oxygenate the water, but as long as the water coming from the filter is breaking the plane of the water you should be alright with that. I do have to say that my Discus tank is up around 86 at all times and when breading Angels that tank is at 86 as well.

Since no one has said yet, I will be the first.....Get a good water test kit. Most of us use the API Fresh Water test kit. Knowing what your Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are, they should be 0-0-(no more then 20, but most like to keep it around 10) is very important. Also keeping a PH level consistent is important as well.'

Good Luck!

 

[phin]

A) Get the biggest tank you can afford/fit in your space. You will want a bigger one soon. If you have 36 inches to spare get a 3ft long tank. If only 30 inches get a 29 gallon over a 20gallon long (unless you want bettas - then stick with the 20 long). If you can only squeeze in 24 inches then a 20 high will be all you can fit. Go bigger.

2) If you want to put plants in first, they won't be harmed by the cycle process and can be beneficial, but in my opinion the advantage is neglegable.

d) I haven't changed the filter pad on my marine land h.o.b in a year. I cut out a spot in it to empty the carbon and rinse it off with every other water change in the bucket of old water. My advice is to not change it unless it is falling apart and to not use any carbon unless specifically to remove medications added. Old carbon left in a filter pad can begin to leach toxins back into the water.

vii.) Bubblers are for decoration (mostly). They do provide surface agitation when more is needed. A battery powered one is good if you have a power failure and your filter isn't running. I have heard that they help to off-gas CO2 that plants use during the day, but someone I know swears her plants grow better in tanks with bubblers, so I'm not sure about that. The best use of an air pump is for a diy sponge filter.

 

[littletankbigworld]

A 29 gallon high tank has the same footprint (bottom area) as a 20 gallon long tank. The only difference is a 29 high is taller and holds more water, hence more fish. So, if you can fit a 20 gallon long, it's well worth it to spend a little bit more money and go for the 29 gallon high. I don't really recommend the Wal-Mart Aqua-Tech brand kits. Aqua-Tech filters are crap and you'll end up replacing the filter in a month or two when it breaks. Aqua-Clears are great filters. Go for at least an Aqua-Clear 50, preferably larger. I have an Aqua-Clear 50 on my 29 gallon and it works fabulously.
Make sure you add surfactant-free ammonia to the tank and monitor the levels with liquid test kits before adding fish. Letting the filter run for a month without adding any source of ammonia is not cycling. Bubblers are not really necessary. You've done a great job by researching everything. Keep up the researching as you decide which fish to add when the tank cycles.

 

[Kruse]

If you're looking for specific parts, I'm not sure. I set up a 10 gallon using whatever was at Walmart, and it did well. I think the kits are usually pretty good, but I've never used one so I don't have much to offer. I did buy both my light and new filter for my 40 gallon from Amazon.com, and they seemed to have the lowest prices I could find online since they offered free shipping on both those items.

I had plants when I cycled my tank, and they did okay. Ammonia will probably kill plants, but not at the levels that will be in the aquarium unless you're adding lots of ammonia to get the cycle going. If you're using the decomposing fish food method, I think it would be okay.

Changing the filter cartridges is to renew the carbon in them, which is used to filter out certain things in the tank. I would leave them while you cycle, then maybe change them out when you get fish. You could probably even wait a little while after you put fish in to change it.

Any sort of bubbles or airstones help to break up the surface tension and let oxygen into your water. You don't have to do this as this is one of the reasons for a filter if you have the hang-on-back kind. Personally, I like bubbles in my tank and have two bubble rods. The only down side is if you're adding CO2 to help grow your plants, which is also totally optional, the carbon dioxide will be able to escape the water faster with the bubbles of air breaking the surface tension.

I'm not super pro at this yet, but hopefully I've answered a few of your questions.

This is the plan I was looking at to follow for the cycle:
Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

I may have missed it being discussed somewhere, but I haven't seen a guide using decomposing fish food to cycle the tank.

 

[phin]

You can use decomposing fish food, but it would have to be some with protein in it, as the protein break down will contribute to ammonia build up. Using Ammonia is generally better as it removes the possibility of introducing fungus to the tank, which can result with decomposing fish food. The same thing (fungus) goes for adding a dead shrimp (prawn) to start the cycle.

 

[bassbonediva]

This is the plan I was looking at to follow for the cycle:
Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

I may have missed it being discussed somewhere, but I haven't seen a guide using decomposing fish food to cycle the tank.

That's because the decomposing fish food method is not generally recommended or used any longer because there are more efficient methods of fishless cycling out there (using pure ammonia or raw shrimp, for example). You have to use a lot of fish food in order to create enough ammonia to cycle your tank, so the method is considered inefficient and a waste of money.

+1 on Dylandrewsdad about the test kit! (Now we're even!) I completely forgot about that. The API Freshwater Master Test kit is what you're going to want to get. If you can't afford the $30-35 API kit from Petsmart or Petco, Walmart has the same kit under a generic brand (it is literally the API kit with just a different name on it) for about $20-25 shipped. Walmart.com: Freshwater Master Test Kit: Fish

Also, while I kind of agree with littletank and phin that you will want a bigger tank once you get one started (I started out with a 5gal a couple of years ago and now have all the tanks listed in my signature, plus one that isn't running ATM), if you like the look of the 20 gallon long over the 29gal, go with it. I have both a 20gL and a 29gal and I honestly have to say that the 20gL is probably one of my favorite tanks. They're good for doing "mini" communities in (see my thread in the "Rate My Fishtank" photography section titled "20gL "mini" community). Just something to think about.

 

[Kruse]

Thanks, I'll definitely pick up one of the test kits. I think I'll just stick with the pure ammonia cycling method.

Is there any benefit to using a long or high tank other than space consideration or aesthetics?

 

[bassbonediva]

Not really. Like littletank and phin said, the 29gal has the same footprint (length and width dimensions) as a 20gL, just the 29gal has more space for more fish. In a taller tank, you can usually have bigger fish (the tiger barbs in my 29gal will reach 3", the SA bumblebee cat is about 4" and the albino rainbow shark will reach about 4-5"), whereas in the longer tanks, you should really stick with smaller fish (my male ram will top out at about 3", my black neons will be about 2", my clown pleco is only about 2"). If you look at it, I actually have more fish in my 20gL (10 black neons, 2 rams, 4 panda cories and 1 clown pleco, for a total of 17 fish) than I do in my 29gal (7 tiger barbs, 4 peppered cories, 2 otos, 1 SA bumblebee cat, 1 albino rainbow shark, for a total of 15 fish) because the fish in my 20gL are smaller.

 

[phin]

Depending on your setup (lots of rocks/driftwood that will displace water) a 29 gallon will allow for more water, therefore, oxygen in the tank supporting more and bigger fish. However, if you aren't aquascaping with lots of large rocks and do a planted/tropical setup a 20g long might be better since you won't need as much lighting to reach the bottom of the tank. It really depends on what you have in mind. In a 20g long you would need a minimum 30w of light, preferrably 40w-80w depending on the plants you want to keep. With the same plants in a 29g you will need 60w minimum and preferrably 90w or more.

 

[Kruse]

I'd like to do some aquascaping, mainly rock formations with some plants.

 

[bassbonediva]

In a 20g long you would need a minimum 30w of light, preferrably 40w-80w depending on the plants you want to keep. With the same plants in a 29g you will need 60w minimum and preferrably 90w or more.

Gonna respectfully disagree with this. I have the 17W stock fixture from my 29gal on my 20gL and it provides PLENTY of light for plants like anacharis, java fern, swords and dwarf sagitarrius. On the 29gal, I have a T5 48W fixture and my plants are growing like weeds, even without CO2. Yes, higher light expands the range of plants you can potentially keep, but it isn't imparative to have higher light to keep the good beginner low light plants.

 

[phin]

Very true. For low light plants in a tank 12" deep 1wpg is enough. I guess the point I was making is that taller tanks will require more wattage to penetrate the bottom of the tank. There is a large difference in price between a 17w t8 fixture and a HO T5 48w fixture. The plants he would be able to grow with a T8 or T12 17w fixture on a 29 gallon tank would be severely limited.

 

[littletankbigworld]

I disagree as well. I have .7 WPG on my 29 gallon tall tank and with dosing, I can grow sword plants, hygrophila, java moss and water wisteria without a problem.

 

[Kruse]

I've spotted a 30 gallon bow front tank and stand on craigslist for $40. It appears to come with all the accessories, including a Bio-Wheel filter. Seems like a good deal, so I'm going to try and take a look at it this afternoon.

 

[bassbonediva]

Ooooh! That is a good deal! Good luck getting it! I just scored a free 10gal setup off Craigslist (gonna use it as a fry grow-out tank if my rams breed).

 

[Dylandrewsdad]

Great Deal! Let us know if you get it!!!