What to Do With What's Left? Dead Fish Tank.

[Sky Diamond]

Hi guys,

My two Bettas have died and I still have my water plants and a snail left over. The fish died from bacteria and I'm not sure whether to just rinse them off and put them into another tank or just throw them out - which I don't want to do to the snail as obviously it's a living thing?

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks

 

[Thyra]

I have read all your posts and I don't see where you have any real proof your fish died from bacteria. Were they shipped in the same container? Were they in the same tank?? Had the seller had recent similar deaths - and if so why did she/he ship fish? Is this the same tank that had plantera? It sounds like you are talking one tank, but obviously (?) they were both bettas and should have been in two separate tanks - what info are we missing or not understanding? I have had no dealing with snails, but I have heard that they are pretty sensitive to medications and didn't you medicate the tank? From what you write you make it sound like both bettas were in the same tank - I hope that is my misunderstanding because if its not - stress was probably the killer.

 

[Sky Diamond]

I told the seller over the phone and she told me that it was probably bacteria, since then I've been speaking to her again and she said Ammonia, which I had just a touch of in my tank, can burn them and that mixed in with cold water can easily cause the bacteria to get into them.

I've since read up that Ammonia and cold water can suppress the immune system, which wouldn't have helped either. I say it was a mix of the Ammonia, cold water thanks to the heaters, stress of travelling and the bacteria. I've had this happen before to fighters I've had for months and never known what it was until now.

By what I've been told, it fits the puzzle. They were shipped at the same time from the same place. These two fish were in different tanks and couldn't see each other - they were in different rooms. The seller told me not to put two where they can see each other constantly.

I'm guessing the first fish that first died infected my other fish either between water while in the bagging process or through the net when being caught.

I treated the first fish with Tri-solfa as I didn't have Tetracycline at the time to treat him with. He died the next day. Then two days later, the other fighter was dull and his fins appeared clamped up. I tested the water and there was 0.25 of Ammonia in the water. I did a 90% clean out, which is what I've been told to do for fighters who aren't in a filtered tank.

I thought maybe he was just a little off because of the Ammonia and I still didn't have the Tetracycline to treat with. The next day I got the treatment did another water change of 50% which is what the seller told me to do and I put the treatment in, but he only got worse until he point his fins were totally glued up and he died.

I was fully aware at the time that the snail may not be able to handle the treatment - though there wasn't anything mentioned on the bottle - but I wasn't too worried as the Betta cost me $60 where the snail was only $3.

And yes, these tanks had plants in them and one tank had a snail in it. I'm just wanting to know if washing them off and putting them into other tanks would be okay to do so without spreading the disease.

 

[Thyra]

Based on everything you have said, I still will stick to my theory that it was stress that killed your fish. There is much written about using medications in tanks - too much room for error in dosage, but think about it - have you, personally ever taken an antibiotic? There are always side effects - to all medications. With any antibiotic you have to figure the size of the person or (fish) and the dilution and the amount of water the fish is in. Then you also went from one medications to another in the course of a couple of days. I think you should consider doing more reading about tank preparation before you spend anymore money on fish - just my opinion. $60 for a fish is a lot of money in my book - considering my horse, who I had for 30 years, cost $75!

 

[OrangeCones]

$60 for a fish is a lot of money in my book - considering my horse, who I had for 30 years, cost $75!

You beat me on my horse (adopted from a rescue shelter)! Andy was $95! He was approx 7-10 yrs old and I had him 18 years.

 

[Sky Diamond]

Based on everything you have said, I still will stick to my theory that it was stress that killed your fish. There is much written about using medications in tanks - too much room for error in dosage, but think about it - have you, personally ever taken an antibiotic? There are always side effects - to all medications. With any antibiotic you have to figure the size of the person or (fish) and the dilution and the amount of water the fish is in. Then you also went from one medications to another in the course of a couple of days. I think you should consider doing more reading about tank preparation before you spend anymore money on fish - just my opinion. $60 for a fish is a lot of money in my book - considering my horse, who I had for 30 years, cost $75!

The thing that makes me think it wasn't so much stress as a disease, is when they came, both of them, they didn't seem stressed. They were swimming around happily and not sitting at the bottom of the tank like some fish I've had after just a car drive home. The first one that died was a little faded after we unpacked him but came back to full colour within a few minutes.

Yes, I agree with you, it is a lot of money for a fish, especially a fighting fish, but these guys were nothing like I've seen before at the pet shop, but my fish was a show halfmoon tail - he's actually the fish I have as my avatar. They're normally about $40 sick at a pet shop around here. I hate seeing them in little sauce containers and half dead. They don't bother with heaters or anything with them, even in winter. It's sad.

What more about tank prep should I read about other then the cycling? The thing that's getting me so confused right now is, I'm doing things how I used to and got very few problems compared to now. The most I got before was bringing home disease with new fish. I'm really starting to wonder about our water. Our third fighter has gone quiet now and we just changed his water the other day. . . He was fine before that and then the day after. It was yesterday he got quiet. We've had him for three weeks now. We've slowly put up the tank temp from 22.7 to 25.6C

Where did you get your horse from? That's extremal cheap compared to out here. They start at $100 if there's something seriously wrong with them. I've had three horses now and they've all been around the $2,000 mark. . .

Either way, whether they died from a disease or stress, what should I do with the snail and water plants? This is also for future issues as I've just thrown out perfectly good plants before with not knowing what to do with them. Does rinsing them off in water wash all the diseases away with it? Or does the plants/snail need treatment also?

 

[exhumed07]

60 bucks for a betta is just robbery lol, i can get a betta in nearly any shade of color and pretty much any style for about 5 bucks from my lfs, i can agree box pet stores don't take great care of them and have limited veriety but still u got robbed. and stress can bring on deseases. it lowers the immune system.

as for the horses it's easy to get them for 100 or so. got rescue horses and you can even buy wild mustang colts for 200 bucks. just have to know where to look and remember, pedigre isn't everything. u want a race horse sure spend a few hundred grand on a horse, but if u just want a good horse to ride and enjoy, get a rescue horse. no different then rescue dogs and cats at times.

the plants should be fine as well as the snail as long as the fish in the other tanks are not stressed or anything. and remember, just because the fish show up fine does not mean that they cannot become stressed a few days to a couple weeks later either due to temp, or water imbalances, or even with bettas, keeping anything brightly colored nearby it can stress them. and also i agree with thyra. make sure u have all your ducks in a row before u spend more money on fish.

 

[Sky Diamond]

lol I knew it was expensive, I've had a heap of fighters before. Bettas over here, just the plain ones start at $11 in my state. Other states around $20. I bought mine over the net through videos and where I got them from was an expensive area and they were also imported from Thailand. They seemed more touchy though.

My first horse was a Shetland, second Welsh cross and my latest guy a Paint Quarter horse. Normally over here anything quiet to ride costs $2,000 to $12,000 and with already having health issues that's what I needed.

Great thank you.

 

[Thyra]

This is the way we were taught in 4-H: All horses are worth the same - what the going price per pound is for meat. What makes them worth more is their training. Personally I would also add breeding, but even then you can't count on them being like their sire and dam.

Sky, you seem to have unlimited funds for fish, but lack equipment. You apparently don't even own a tank suitable in size for the fish you want. You definitely need something in the 30 gallon range. I wouldn't recommend SW until you conquer the FW problems you are having. Also, usually people that buy those expensive fish are planning to breed them, and honestly, from all the things you have said I don't think you are ready to take that project on. If you have read at all about it you would realize how labor intensive it is - you could need as many as 50 - 100 separate containers all that would need very frequent water changes. And have you considered how you would market the fry? There is a lot of competition out there and shipping is also problematic. BTW - weren't those two bettas that died guaranteed in any way?

 

[OrangeCones]

I've had a heap of fighters before.

What happened to the heap of fighters?

 

[Sky Diamond]

This is the way we were taught in 4-H: All horses are worth the same - what the going price per pound is for meat. What makes them worth more is their training. Personally I would also add breeding, but even then you can't count on them being like their sire and dam.

Sky, you seem to have unlimited funds for fish, but lack equipment. You apparently don't even own a tank suitable in size for the fish you want. You definitely need something in the 30 gallon range. I wouldn't recommend SW until you conquer the FW problems you are having. Also, usually people that buy those expensive fish are planning to breed them, and honestly, from all the things you have said I don't think you are ready to take that project on. If you have read at all about it you would realize how labor intensive it is - you could need as many as 50 - 100 separate containers all that would need very frequent water changes. And have you considered how you would market the fry? There is a lot of competition out there and shipping is also problematic. BTW - weren't those two bettas that died guaranteed in any way?

Ah yeah, that's a lot different out here. Horses are worth what breeding, training and handling they've had, and also personality. A very quiet show pony that has decent breeding as well as winnings and handling can go for $15,000+ out here. It's pretty crazy really. . .

Actually, it's both ways. I just lack the availability of decent equipment around here. Three pet shops over an hours radius and they only stock Aqua One and Marina heaters, both which I've found faulty. I'm looking at buying my things online now.

I only buy the tanks my parents will allow me to have. I'm eighteen and my mum hates big tanks as she thinks they're harder to look after and she worries about leaking tanks and when we go away - even know we haven't gone anywhere for about four years now. . . I'd be happy to have a six foot tank if I could. . . It's not like I can't afford it as I pay for all my fish and the stuff I need. I even have more then one spare of almost everything - filters, heaters, food, tank cleaners, treatments - which I've bought just in case as I'm out of town - replacement filter pieces, etc. I have a large box for it all and not all of it fits in. . .

I wouldn't recommend SW until you conquer the FW problems you are having.

Sorry but what do you mean by SW and FW? I'm not too familiar with those terms. I have thought about breeding them, though I wasn't going to temp it with these fish - one male was mine, the one that is dull now is my mother's and the first one that died was my aunts I was looking after until she goes back home. I'd buy a cheap male until I knew what I was doing in case I mucked something up and lost him.

I have heard you need huge tanks to breed them, though I've seen experts I know on youtube put babies in tanks about 40 litres and grow them out, though there weren't that many that they would need anything more than 100 litres if that. So I'm not too sure what goes on there, but either way I'm not planning on doing that any time soon. If I did breed Bettas, I would probably advertise them on the net, Gumtree, youtube, etc. There's a massive demand for flashy ones such as what I've bought out here. I agreed to a DOA - Dead Upon Arrival with the seller, but there wasn't any guarantee after the first day sadly.

We're starting to believe it is our water that is the problem. The fish we've had for three weeks now was dull for the past two days - since we changed the water - and tonight we changed it again and used the bought filtered water and he seems a little better.

What happened to the heap of fighters?

I've had heaps over the years, they either died months after I got them from the same glue fin stuff, fin rot, bacterial cut one got after he jumped out of the tank from the mantel - though he landed on a bag that was inflated thankfully and I was there and seen him do it - and then old age or just suddenly died over night with no signs of sickness. Most of our Bettas have died of old age and not had any problems with them during the time we've had them. We've only really had serious problems with them now and I'm not doing anything different than I used to apart from using different water.

 

[Thyra]

FW - freshwater SW - saltwater. If you will do some reading you can find a lot of info on breeding bettas. You can only grow them out together for a short while and then the males are each put in a separate container until they are large enough to sell. Why don't you go to Aquadvisor.com and plug in your equipment and then see how many fish you can put in the size tanks you have and what kind of fish are compatible. A 38L tank will not work for most of the fish you have been mentioning - it is definitely too small for even one angel. Filtration does not increase the capacity of a tank by much - if any because the thing when you over stock is ROOM. Some fish simply need more room than others. Mollies are a good example. A large tank is much less work. The hardest tank I have taken care of was a 2.5gallon and in 2nd place was a 5 gallon. The easiest is my 30 gallon. Two things, though. are extremely important - what you set the tank on and to have it absolutely level - both front to back and side to side. And another bit if advice - make sure when you level its from the floor. If you just level the tank it will put pressure on the seams.

 

[Sky Diamond]

FW - freshwater SW - saltwater. If you will do some reading you can find a lot of info on breeding bettas. You can only grow them out together for a short while and then the males are each put in a separate container until they are large enough to sell. Why don't you go to Aquadvisor.com and plug in your equipment and then see how many fish you can put in the size tanks you have and what kind of fish are compatible. A 38L tank will not work for most of the fish you have been mentioning - it is definitely too small for even one angel. Filtration does not increase the capacity of a tank by much - if any because the thing when you over stock is ROOM. Some fish simply need more room than others. Mollies are a good example. A large tank is much less work. The hardest tank I have taken care of was a 2.5gallon and in 2nd place was a 5 gallon. The easiest is my 30 gallon. Two things, though. are extremely important - what you set the tank on and to have it absolutely level - both front to back and side to side. And another bit if advice - make sure when you level its from the floor. If you just level the tank it will put pressure on the seams.

Well I am looking at a three foot tank for my axolotls which would give me my 60 litre tank for my Angel Fish, but I'm sure if he will be able to go in with the fish I want to keep after he grows more. How do you find it easier to look after? My 60 litre tank seems to be the hardest I've had so far.

Oh right. . . our house is uneven. . . I can see it where my sixty litre tank is now and you could see it in our old 90 litre that was setup in another part of the house. . .

 

[OrangeCones]

I've had heaps over the years, they either died months after I got them from the same glue fin stuff, fin rot,

I've never had any issues in the past though, which is what confuses me the most.

Never had any issues, but prior bettas have died from 'glue fin stuff, fin rot'...Those seem to be issues.

The keys are: keep the temperature right for the species and keep the water clean. Until the tank has completed it nitrogen cycle, don't overstock or overfeed.