My Mollies are Dying

[aryle85]

I have had 4 pregnant mollies in the past, I haven't had any of then make it through birth. They die before. None of them showed any adverse symptoms. I currently have a pregnant black Molly and she is huge! She is so big that her scales are sticking out. Is there anything I can do to help her through her pregnancy? I have her in a netted breeder box.

Gh 30
Kh 240
Ph 8
No2 0
No3 80

Added AmQuel Plus Ammonia Deyoxifier after reading since nitrates are high. I left for the weekend and when I came home I had a dead molly, another pregnant one who didn't make it.

55 gal tank with 1 gourami, 2 iridescent sharks, 2 bala sharks, 1 angelic catfish, 2 silver dollars, 2 small algea eaters, 1 rainbow shark, and 6 mollies - 2 male and 4 female

All my fish are fine but recently one of my male mollies has been swimming heads up. What is going on with my tank?

 

[FreshyFresh]

Welcome.

The fact you show no nitrites (your No2 I presume) is great.

I guess nitrates is No3? 80ppm is a bit high and signifies you need to do more water changes. Do you do weekly water changes of atleast 10%?

Do you measure for ammonia? If so, is it 0ppm?

IMO, all the hardness and pH tests are meaningless unless it's a special breeding project you're after.

 

[aryle85]

Welcome.

The fact you show no nitrites (your No2 I presume) is great.

I guess nitrates is No3? 80ppm is a bit high and signifies you need to do more water changes. Do you do weekly water changes of atleast 10%?

Do you measure for ammonia? If so, is it 0ppm?

IMO, all the hardness and pH tests are meaningless unless it's a special breeding project you're after.

Thank you for the welcome!

I change my water biweekly. I do sightly less than 50% is that too much? I add about 10% every 3-4 days when the water level drops.

My test kit is only the basic kind, but I went to the lps and they tested. I was told my ammonia was high, I used AmQuel Plus Ammonia Deyoxifier. Only added ph balancer and detoxifier 3 hours before I did the reading.

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Welcome to the forums ! I wish your reason for posting was happier, however I wish you the best of luck in advance.

There are a couple of things I would add to FF. There are occasions where a Molly will give birth to a double or triple batch of fry, however it usually does not make their scales stand out. If your fish look a bit like a pine cone it is most likely a bacterial infection called dropsy How to Diagnose and Treat Dropsy in Aquarium Fish in addition, having 4 mollies that appear pregnant then die, makes me believe this is actually dropsy vs pregnancy

Picture of a fish with dropsy http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/photos/dropsey_fish-250.jpg

Unfortunately if your other mollies were pine cone like as well you may need to treat your entire tank to solve the problem. The issue with this however is your gourami and catfish are sensitive to salt, so you would need to keep that in mind if you decide they might have dropsy.

In addition to this your Nitrates (No3) is 2x what it should be max, was your tank fully cycled ? a 50 % water change should not cause harm, however for your nitrates to be that high with such frequent water changes makes me think something is a miss.

Your goal is to have:
0 ppm Ammonia
0 ppm Nitrites
< 40 ppm Nitrates

Everyone here usually recommends API's Freshwater Master test kit, as do I. It will give you all the readings for the Nitrogen cycle, and low \ high ph of your tank, for about $20. There are lots of online retailers if that is an option for you.

Side note: Most likely the same dechlorinator you use to remove chlorine from your tank will also reduce \ remove ammonia as long as it treats for chloramine, as chloramine is a derivative of ammonia use to prevent bacteria from growing in city water.

 

[aryle85]

Welcome to the forums ! I wish your reason for posting was happier, however I wish you the best of luck in advance.

There are a couple of things I would add to FF. There are occasions where a Molly will give birth to a double or triple batch of fry, however it usually does not make their scales stand out. If your fish look a bit like a pine cone it is most likely a bacterial infection called dropsy How to Diagnose and Treat Dropsy in Aquarium Fish in addition, having 4 mollies that appear pregnant then die, makes me believe this is actually dropsy vs pregnancy

Picture of a fish with dropsy http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/photos/dropsey_fish-250.jpg

Unfortunately if your other mollies were pine cone like as well you may need to treat your entire tank to solve the problem. The issue with this however is your gourami and catfish are sensitive to salt, so you would need to keep that in mind if you decide they might have dropsy.

In addition to this your Nitrates (No3) is 2x what it should be max, was your tank fully cycled ? a 50 % water change should not cause harm, however for your nitrates to be that high with such frequent water changes makes me think something is a miss.

Your goal is to have:
0 ppm Ammonia
0 ppm Nitrites
< 40 ppm Nitrates

Everyone here usually recommends API's Freshwater Master test kit, as do I. It will give you all the readings for the Nitrogen cycle, and low \ high ph of your tank, for about $20. There are lots of online retailers if that is an option for you.

Side note: Most likely the same dechlorinator you use to remove chlorine from your tank will also reduce \ remove ammonia as long as it treats for chloramine, as chloramine is a derivative of ammonia use to prevent bacteria from growing in city water.

This is the first time I've seen any of the pregnant mollies look like this. I told the owner at my lps about this...I wonder why he didn't think of dropsy. If it was in fact dropsy, would removing the infected fish to my hospital tank help it from transferring to my healthy fish? Also is it possible for this only to affect one breed?

 

[Thyra]

Welcome! It is my opinion that putting pregnant fish in a breeder's net or box just stresses them out and can cause death. Any amount of ammonia or nitrite can be deadly to fish. Trying to change your pH is also stress causing - it rarely works and you are constantly changing it by adding unnecessary chemicals. Until you get your ammonia and nitrite at zero you need to be doing daily water changes of at least 50%. Until you get this under control don't worry about the fry. As long as you have some hiding places some will survive and you aren't really ready for a crowd.

 

[OrangeCones]

Lots of incompatablie fish...and some are real tank-busters!

 

[aryle85]

Welcome! It is my opinion that putting pregnant fish in a breeder's net or box just stresses them out and can cause death. Any amount of ammonia or nitrite can be deadly to fish. Trying to change your pH is also stress causing - it rarely works and you are constantly changing it by adding unnecessary chemicals. Until you get your ammonia and nitrite at zero you need to be doing daily water changes of at least 50%. Until you get this under control don't worry about the fry. As long as you have some hiding places some will survive and you aren't really ready for a crowd.

So should I remove the possibly infected fish?

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

Without a pic it's hard to tell, and if the other mollies didn't show signs like her, I'd spend an hour or two researching the issue, and then follow my gut on what to do, if you think it's dropsy, then yes, place her in her own bowel, and treat her.

But I agree with Thyra, stabilize your community tank, one fish now is better vs the entire tank in a week or two.

 

[aryle85]

Lots of incompatablie fish...and some are real tank-busters!

OrangeCones can you elaborate on this? Obviously I don't know what you mean or I wouldn't have put them together in the first place...

 

[aryle85]

Without a pic it's hard to tell, and if the other mollies didn't show signs like her, I'd spend an hour or two researching the issue, and then follow my gut on what to do, if you think it's dropsy, then yes, place her in her own bowel, and treat her.

But I agree with Thyra, stabilize your community tank, one fish now is better vs the entire tank in a week or two.

The black on is the possibly pregnant possible dropsy. I have had her for about 6 monthes. The white on is a male. He started swimming heads up yesterday, and has lost a lot of weight. I have had him since the beginning, about 2 and a half years.

 

[OrangeCones]

Definately dropsy, and she's in advanced stages of kidney failure now. Her kidneys can't regulate the water in her body anymore, which is why she's now bloated. Dropsy is NOT contagious as so many think, as its not a disease. It is caused by poor water quality that she and the other are swimming in. Some never show signs of it, some 'waste away' which is what looks like is happening to the male molly.

Water changes, water changes, water changes!

 

[aryle85]

I transferred both infected fish to my hospital tank. I am treating with Maracyn Two and salt. As for my community tank, I did a 50% water change and tested with my new API Master Test Kit I just bought. As of 10 minutes ago my ammonia is reading 0, nitrite is .25, and nitrates are at 20.

 

[OrangeCones]

The fish are not 'infected.'

Good luck with your fish!

 

[Rotaripsnoc]

I would disagree OC, but also agree. Dropsy is almost always the result of a bacterial infection, however the bacteria that can cause the problem are nearly always found in an aquarium, it is only when the fish are stressed and their slime coat \ immune system is compromised that the bacteria can set in and the fish suffer dropsy as an side effect.

So it's not as though the infected fish is going to spread the problem, however it does tell you that you have several bacterial cultures in your tank, if your fish become injured due to aggression or stressed from being chased they risk developing dropsy also.

To quote a reference I use often

It is little wonder you are confused. This is one of those instances where there is some truth in everything you have heard. Let's try to clarify things a bit. Dropsy is not a single disease (although you may find occasional references to a disease known as abdominal dropsy of cyprinids — carps and minnows). It is a condition produced by any one of a number of diseases. Thus, observing dropsy does not lead to an obvious diagnosis or treatment.

Dropsy — referred to in professional texts as ascites — is the accumulation of fluids in the visceral cavity of a fish. This fluid buildup causes the abdomen to swell. In severe cases the distention is so great that the scales stand out from the body. When viewed from above the fish takes on a pine cone-like appearance.

In North American ponds, the most common cause of dropsy is internal bacterial infection. Several bacterial diseases — including aeromonad disease (Aeromonas hydrophila), pseudomonad septicemia (Pseudomonas fluorescens) and vibriosis (Vibrio anguillarum) — can result in dropsy. To the best of my knowledge, studies of animals involved in outbreaks of disease among koi on the east and west coasts of the United States all revealed one of these bacterial causes.

The bacteria that cause these diseases are ubiquitous to the aquatic environment. Therefore, in an otherwise healthy fish population, any of these bacteria may be present without the fish showing any signs of disease. The delayed appearance of disease is especially likely in water temperatures below 60 degrees Fahrenheit. However, stressing the animals — which may include merely adding new fish to an existing community — can result in a sudden deadly outbreak. Bacterial-induced dropsy in koi and goldfish occurs most often in spring as water temperatures rise. It may also appear at any time during the year after extensive handling or overcrowding.​

The full article is here: Causes of Dropsy Symptoms

Now that you have a good way to test your water, you can work on making your tank better. Don't be afraid of changing too much water, as long as your fish are covered with water they will be fine. Also you may want to test your tap to see what it's natural level of nitrates are. I found out the hard way that my tap has nitrates ranging 5-10 ppm, which led me to believe my tank had cycled before it had.

Isolating them is a good idea so you can treat them, and not have to medicate the rest of the tank. Salt will help counter any nitrates in their tank, and stimulate their slime coat to grow thicker, and the antibiotics could help them recover. As OC said they are in the late stages of the problem.

You may want to pick up some melafix in the future, it is a natural tea extract that helps fish heal faster, it is good for fin rot, open sores, etc.

 

[aryle85]

Both mollies passed away tonight...

 

[FreshyFresh]

Both mollies passed away tonight...

Awe..

Well, if nothing else, take it as a learning experience.

The fact you showed nitrites in your tank is not a good thing. It's generally representative of a tank that was not properly cycled or may be in the midst of a mini-cycle induced by adding more fish to the tank than your beneficial bacteria colony are used to handling.

Any time you see ammonia or nitrites in the tank, you need to do water changes until they're both 0ppm, 0ppm.

 

[Nave]

I'm courious as to what filtration you have and are using on your tank and how many gallons the tank is? Do you have more then one filter? If so do you clean them at the same time?

 

[Nave]

Sorry I miss the 55 gal you spoke of. I see that you have a lot of fish that can get fairly large I don't know how big the bala and iridescent you have are but if you don't have enough filtration for an "overstocked" tank there may be an overload going in for the beneficial bacteria and it can keep up. That is what may be causing the nitrite spike.

I see its been a couple says since the last post and sorry to hear about the loss you had and hope things are looking up for you and your tank. But still post what you are running filter wise as it may help the next person experiencing a problem.

 

[aryle85]

I have one marineland filter and one aqueon on a 55 gal tank. I've never "cleaned" them just change the filters and yes I change them at the same time.