30 gal wall Partition

[Iggy]

Questions:
1. What glass thickness did you use?
2. Where did you get the Silicone and what brand is it?
3. What kind (wattage) heater do you have (if you have one?)

Cycling:
- No fish-store company in Edmonton worries about a proper fish cycle Randy. Not a single one. You can use any fish or do a cycle without fish (better because no fish loss)
- Some fish are better for cycling, Danios seem to be the fish of choice because they are hardier than most others and not as messy as goldfish.

 

[nynick]

If you want to cycle it faster (4-6 days) you can use regular Miraclegro. 3 drops per 5 gallons per day will get your nitrates and ammonia up there enough to get the bacteria growing. It also gives the plants a good start in life.....DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU HAVE SENSITIVE FISH!!!!

 

[FroggyFox]

Originally posted by instant
Hey froggy, what is wrong with cycling rasboras? the grumpy sales guy at big als said they would be fine...

The grumpy sales guy sounds like he need some sunshine up his...yeah In my experience rasboras are great little fish, but best added after the cycling process and to an established planted tank. They're sensitive to changes in water chemistry...and you'll actually see their colors dull when the nitrates go up...its amazing. I have heard people say that they are hardy and good for cycling...personally thats just not the experience I've had with them though

Originally posted by nynick
If you want to cycle it faster (4-6 days) you can use regular Miraclegro. 3 drops per 5 gallons per day will get your nitrates and ammonia up there enough to get the bacteria growing. It also gives the plants a good start in life.....DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU HAVE SENSITIVE FISH!!!!

...never heard about this miraclegro to cycle...why would that work better? I'll go look it up...but aren't there fertilizers etc in it? Never crossed my mind that it might not be toxic for fish like most things. You say it gets the nitrates up? Why would that help with the cycle...seems like just doing normal ammonia/fishless cycling that could be plant friendly (assuming its not toxic for fish) With an unplanted tank we work to keep the nitrates DOWN not up...

 

[nynick]

The problem with cycling an empty or half empty tank is that there arent enough ammonia and nitrate around for the bacteria to grow. Cycling an empty tank is almost useless unless you feed it with something. You can use fishfood but it is so much easier to use miraclegro (and faster!!!) For the nitrifying bacteria to grow there must be nitrates present right, there is no source for nitrates in an empty or sparsley populated tank so after 4 weeks off cycling very little has happened compared to 4 days with miracle gro. By the way high levels of miracle gro (or low in some cases, like high PH tanks) is very toxic to fish due to it's high ammonia and nitrate levels including Urea.

You wrote "You say it gets the nitrates up? Why would that help with the cycle"
That is the whole point of cycling, getting the nitrates up and then wait for the bacteria to grow in and bring it down again!!

You wrote "With an unplanted tank we work to keep the nitrates DOWN not up..."
hehehe, You don't say.

 

[instant]

Miracle grow - sounds like something I used for my plants in high school. Anyway, I would be willing to give it a try. Has anyone had any experience with it??

I check my ammonia and nitrites everyday. I always get readings of 0! very boring, the chemist in me wants something to happen.

I bought a 100watt heater for $36. I am not sure of the name but the friendly guy at big als handed me the air pump, and heater and said "hear ya go, don't give me any lip - these are the best products for the money" - my kind of sales guy

I just bought a $6 tube of aquarium silicone from Als. I understand that I could have used other non aquarium stuff but it was not worth my time to research it. Besides I only used 3/4 of the tube that I bought - anyone need some silicone - free!

The glass I used is 3/8 thick. the 1/4 inch stuff is half the price and easier to get but everyone said to use the thick stuff.

There is a very strong feeling out in the fish world that anything over 19" tall should be 3/8 - no matter how wide the tank is Since I got a good deal I went with it. I still think 1/4 would have been fine.

Randy

 

[FroggyFox]

Originally posted by nynick
The problem with cycling an empty or half empty tank is that there arent enough ammonia and nitrate around for the bacteria to grow. Cycling an empty tank is almost useless unless you feed it with something. You can use fishfood but it is so much easier to use miraclegro (and faster!!!) For the nitrifying bacteria to grow there must be nitrates present right, there is no source for nitrates in an empty or sparsley populated tank so after 4 weeks off cycling very little has happened compared to 4 days with miracle gro. By the way high levels of miracle gro (or low in some cases, like high PH tanks) is very toxic to fish due to it's high ammonia and nitrate levels including Urea.

You wrote "You say it gets the nitrates up? Why would that help with the cycle" That is the whole point of cycling, getting the nitrates up and then wait for the bacteria to grow in and bring it down again!!

You wrote "With an unplanted tank we work to keep the nitrates DOWN not up..." hehehe, You don't say.

Hey now, please dont patronize me nick. A fishless cycle is when you use ammonia to raise the level of ammonia...so that the bacteria have something to feed on and convert the ammonia to nitrites. THEN some more bacteria grow to convert those nitrites to nitrates.

MY POINT was that why would you put nitrates in the water when what you need are nitrites. Nitrates only go away when you do water changes or when they are absorbed by plants. So NO you dont need nitrates to cycle a tank.

 

[nynick]

Regarding the thickness off the glass:

If you ever think "hmmm, I wonder if this thinner glass is enough or if I really need the thicker one" always spend the extra money on the thicker. I didn't once when I was new to the hobby many years ago and it cost me over $6000 to replace the floor. Lucky I had saved 10 bucks on the glass, hehehe, to help me pay for it. This was over 15 years ago but it still stings when I think about it.

 

[nynick]

You dont have to worry so much about nitrites when cycling as long as you have ammonia and urea present it will turn to Nitrite and give you the complete cycle. Nitrates will be the end result from both miraclegro and ammonia with MG having the added bonus that it has both macro and micro nutrients for plants and algae to work better on removing the Nitrates. If you only use ammonia your cycling will still be fast but you will lack the nutrients to complete the circle. I have done miracle gro cycling for 15 years and trust me it works better than plain ammonia and is really amazing when combined with some hygro's! You end up with a system that needs less water changes in the first few months.

regarding the patronizing, I promise not to patronize you if you promise me the same.....do you remember this....."With an unplanted tank we work to keep the nitrates DOWN not up..."

 

[Leopardess]

made my point to whom it was aimed...edited

 

[Purple]

so - tell me nynick - just how much of this MG do you sell ?

 

[Iggy]

Randy, skip the Miraclegrow, your fish will do the work for you, just don't add any more till your nitrites spike then drop down to 0 again. Trust me, it will happen in a few weeks.

You can test only for Ammonia the first couple weeks, then test for Nitrites every other day in about two weeks. Nitrites will not appear in any large quantity till the ammonia cycle is well underway anyway (nitrites are produced by the ammonia-eating bacteria)

Do 1/4 water changes every 3 days to reduce the stress during cycle on the fish. You can also go to PJ's pet center (34th Ave and Gateway) and buy the 'cycled ceramic disks' that you can add to your canister filter to reduce the cycle spike.

3/8" is perfect, anything less would have bowed out. What did you spend on glass - $300 you say... where did you get that price because everyone I called in the area is a heck of a lot more.

I'll take that free tube of silicone.. with 14 tanks it might come in handy

The nice guy at Big Als (glasses and thin right) is good for supplies advice. Thats a fair price for a quality 100w submersible heater.

Now that the sale is over at Big Als, I highly recommend you buy your supplies at 'Dads Fishroom' on 81st Ave and 99th Street. Henry owns the store (for 30+ years) and has the best supply prices in town. Big Als and Petsmart are good too... Petcetera is the worst for supplies but the best for fish (2 for 1).

 

[Gomer]

Since I have no relevent experience in both starting up tanks nor planting them, please ignore all my comments. I post purely to humor you all with my ignorance

First the ingredients of MG:
(NH4)2SO4, NH4Cl, P2O5, K2O, (NH4)3PO4 ...these are most of the relevent ones that I could find.

"The problem with cycling an empty or half empty tank is that there arent enough ammonia and nitrate around for the bacteria to grow."

ok, the ammonia part has been cleared up, but the bacteria we are interested in (there are 2 type) DO NOT USE NITRATE. When we cycle, we are FIRST establishing a colony of bacteria that can convert ammonia to nitrite. THEN we establish a SECOND colony of DIFFERENT bateria to convert nitrite to nitrate. There are some types of bacteria that convert nitrate to N2, but we don't need to go there in the normal aquarium.


"For the nitrifying bacteria to grow there must be nitrates present right"

Wrong. ...see above. ...oh..and do notice that there is NO nitrate in the ingredients that I can find for miracle grow. Nitrate is NO3+. Ammonia is NH3. Ammonium is NH4+. Ammonium salts that are soluble (depending on their dissociation constants) will form ammonia and OH- ...the extent is determined by Kd.

"so after 4 weeks off cycling very little has happened compared to 4 days with miracle gro."

even in a sparcely populated tank, A WHOLE LOT can happen then with 4 days of miracle grow. Remember, you need the bacteria colony to reach appreciable levels before you notice anything. That is the only reason people dump in biospira and get results in a couple days.


By the way high levels of miracle gro (or low in some cases, like high PH tanks) is very toxic to fish due to it's high ammonia and nitrate levels including Urea.


I guess then high pH cichlid tanks are full of dead fish.
so..are you about to calculate for us what the proper dosing is for this MG magic? and Urea is NEITHER ammonia NOR nitrate. Urea is a dimethyl ketone with the methyl groups replaced with nitrite groups.


That is the whole point of cycling, getting the nitrates up and then wait for the bacteria to grow in and bring it down again!!

umm..you mean nitrite?....hmmm...see above again. and not just nitrITE...but also ammonia..


You dont have to worry so much about nitrites when cycling as long as you have ammonia and urea present it will turn to Nitrite and give you the complete cycle

umm..ya you do. Nitrite is pretty leathal to fish. nitrATE is the end of the cycle.

If you only use ammonia your cycling will still be fast but you will lack the nutrients to complete the circle.

hmm..cycle. ammonia-->nitrite-->nitrate. each step requires DIFFERENT bacteria. since many of us use ammonia in a fishless cycle, I guess we all are lacking nutrients and all have never cycled a tank.

You end up with a system that needs less water changes in the first few months.

well..when fishless cycling, you DON"T do water changes. since you are using MG which has unspecified trace nutrients, I guess we have nothing to worry about as far as heavy metal buildups?


oh...and let me get out the stop watch to see how quick I get a cloud of greenwater (algae) when I try and fertalize my plants with MG

 

[nynick]

Nyick...froggy is a bit of our resident cycle person.
1. I am glad for him. I am also good at this since I have been in the hobby for a long time. The person who told me this little trick is a fish importer in Hamburg/Germany that has been dealing with wild caught stock since the 50’s and he is unbelievably good.

im also curious as to why you would think miracle grow works faster? NOt to mention its toxicity to fish. I do not think I'd like to be adding the chemical additives in MG to my tanks. Also, it would add unneeded fertilizers to the tank. you don't need the plants to be growing super-well while you are cycling....that would only boost their absorption of the ammonia/nitrites/trates. Which is what you don't want. What are you talking about "you will lack the nutrients to complete the circle?" The only nutrients needed for the nitrogen cycle is ammonia...which pure ammonia provides.
2. Ammonia is not the only nutrient needed for the nitrogen cycle. This cycle is natural and there isn’t a thing in nature that can live off ammonia alone. I am not in any way saying that MG is a complete source of nutrients for this but it is much better than just ammonia since it helps basically everything (but fish) get on to a head start.


Bacteria can only colonize so fast. Fishless cycling is done with ammonia for a reason. Adding pure ammonia to the tank is the most natural way to do is (fish excrement is ammonia).
3. Bacteria can grow very fast or very slow and fish excrement contains a lot more nutrients than ammonia.


You mentioned that MG will get your nitrates and ammonia up there...what good will the nitrates do you other than to dirty the water quicker? They are the end waste product of the cycle...what you need is ammonia...not nitrate.
4. The end product is supposed to be carbon or oxygen or another non-toxic substance. Nitrate is toxic to fish and in high enough dose even to plants and there are plenty of both plants and, contrary to popular, belief bacteria that will turn this nitrate in to a harmless substance.

I fishless cycled my 55 gallon planted tank using ammonia. It cycled fully in one week. How much faster can you get?
5. 4 days minimum but that is not the point, this method just works better.

I'll probably be adding to this as I have more time to think.

Also, nynick, coming to our b oard and patronizing our senior members gets you off on a very bad start imo. Just a thought.
6. Writing “just a thought” does not change the fact that this has nothing to do with you.

 

[Leopardess]

edited to bring th thread back to instant

 

[Gomer]

and instant. while I am not a big fan of plastic "toys" in tanks...I do like what you have done!...you think they will let me cut a hole in my apartment wall?

 

[Iggy]

Randy, sorry for the confusion with the above posts. As you can see, people are passionate about this hobby on this board.

Everyone else, this is a freshwater fishtank showcase thread, not a cycling thread right? Randy is brand new and this is not as helpful and straightforward a thread for a new guy right?

For now, Randy has fish and that will the do the trick for cycling. if he does water changes, and gets his hands on some pre-cycled media and test the water every now and then to make sure the levels don't spike to high, all will be fine.

If anyone else wants to post more on ths subject, please start a new thread, this one is getting way off topic right?

 

[nynick]

I don't know why you guys are going on like this, I thought I was giving a time honored tip to help people cycle their tanks faster and with a product avaliable inexpensively in every super market all over the world. If you want to cycle with ammonia or with junk fish is all up to you. I have done it this way for many years and I find that it works better and a bit faster than ammonia and a lot faster that with fish, that's it.

Take my advice or don't......It is none of my business you have a free will but please do not be nasty to me.

 

[FroggyFox]

First of all...I am a SHE.

Secondly, nynick...you dont know this since you've not been around long, but Gomer is our resident chemist/plant dude...take a look at what he said because its better than most of us could put it. He knows his stuff and btw Gomer thank you for looking up the ingredients and putting everything logically like you're so great at (when you're not being a smart-alec...NO I dont think your apartment complex...or your wife would appreciate the hole in the wall...)

Thirdly, how are we supposed to know who you are or take any of your 'tips'? You just started here TODAY and are spouting off ideas that you can't logically back up and throwing your advice around like you are the end all be all of the fish world. I would suggest reading around a bit, letting us know your experience...maybe start a thread in the introduction section about yourself? Everything on this board pertains to all of us. We generally welcome members by saying "welcome to the tank".

My initial post was not patronizing you nor attacking you in any way, and I dont feel I was out of line. I was asking you to back up logical parts of the cycle that you feel is helped or sped up by using miracle grow instead of normal ammonia...because it was an idea that I hadn't ever heard. Which, consequently, you still haven't done. Instead you attacked my friends and myself...and didn't even TRY to understand where we were coming from.

I wish this was in a different thread because I feel bad that we've hijacked Instant's thread about his very cool project. I apologize Instant.

 

[Leopardess]

Yes, sorry instant! I do like what you've done though. Like gomer, I'm not a personal fan of plastic decos, but they do look good how you've used them

Now I've got to figure out how to convince my landlord that a hole in the wall that size would be an improvement

 

[catfishmike]

whoa!jeze louise ya'll need to calm down.first off as stated by iggy this is a most grevious thread jack and i think the real point at hand is instant and his beautiful tank.let us get back to instant and his tank,which btw will cycle eventualy in good time.despite that we live in the age of fishless cycle there are still the uninitiated and they are not aware of the cycle.and not everyone's fish will die because the are in a uncycled tank.and instead of telling someone that they must do a damn chemistry course so that they can have a fish tank is kinda pretentious.why not just try to point him in the right direction or just tell him"change 25% of the water each week" now if everyone wants to discuss the merits of meriacal grow in fish tanks start another thread.i mean it too.