death after water change
- Thread starter exhumed07
- Start date
wow i agree, must be something with dissolved gasses.
you are saying that guppies didnt die in a test with an un-kinked hose?
i will attempt an explanation. it all has to do with concentrations inside the fish vs outside the fish. fish have a certain concentration of gasses such as nitrogen inside them. if your well water has a naturally high concentration of dissolved nitrogen (be it nitrates or N2 gas) having those micro bubbles there would raise the concentration even higher since we know the smaller the bubble the more can dissolve into the water due to surface area and greater contact with the water. this causes a big concentration difference between fish tissue and outside. that concentration difference alone causes a damaging reaction to happen - the bends phenomenon.
I am sure OC can explain this to you better haha!
you are saying that guppies didnt die in a test with an un-kinked hose?
i will attempt an explanation. it all has to do with concentrations inside the fish vs outside the fish. fish have a certain concentration of gasses such as nitrogen inside them. if your well water has a naturally high concentration of dissolved nitrogen (be it nitrates or N2 gas) having those micro bubbles there would raise the concentration even higher since we know the smaller the bubble the more can dissolve into the water due to surface area and greater contact with the water. this causes a big concentration difference between fish tissue and outside. that concentration difference alone causes a damaging reaction to happen - the bends phenomenon.
I am sure OC can explain this to you better haha!
Guppies were fine for 2 hours unkinked. I drained the tank and then filled it half way and made sure my temps matched. then I put the Guppies in and let them be for half an hour. then to simulate the water change I started to fill the tank but kinked the hose till I got that fog of bubbles. one guppie died before the tank got full and could easily see bubbles in its tail. 2 others died within 5 minutes of the tank being full. I had one survive.
like i said his well water must have high dissolved gas concentrations - he said it too before. the micro bubbles aggravate the problem because they put even more gasses into the water. maybe we are dealing with nitrogen in particular because it is the most abundant gas. would certainly explain the fish dying quick from bends.
No matter who said what before, I'd be very concerned about that well water. Exhumed, I'm sure you know that if you have higher than normal nitrogen levels in your well then they are leaching in from the surrounding soil. Obviously what is happening to your fish is not normal in this hobby. And well water is notorious for having high nitrates from farm run off. Must be why your planted tanks do so well. I would take this seriously and want the issue resolved for my own health. If you have nitrates coming in, which are harmful in and of themselves, then you don't know what other chemicals the ground may be leaching. My point is its not normal and shouldn't be shrugged off as only harmful when under pressure. It could be very serious in the long term.
My brother in law actually had his well water tested for nitrates before their new baby was born, as high nitrogen is associated with infant deaths from basically the bends. Turns out they were coming in high, like 50m/L. So they installed an aerator that brought it down to zero. Dissolved gas may be the issue but the source is that well since they are susceptible to just about every environmental shift that occurs.
My brother in law actually had his well water tested for nitrates before their new baby was born, as high nitrogen is associated with infant deaths from basically the bends. Turns out they were coming in high, like 50m/L. So they installed an aerator that brought it down to zero. Dissolved gas may be the issue but the source is that well since they are susceptible to just about every environmental shift that occurs.
Unlikely to be the case unless he has an aerator or something like it that removes the nitrates from his water. The Illinois EPA even admits that it is a common contaminate.
Well Water Testing
Tap water can be high in nitrate too. Mine comes in around 10ppm and I have used hoses to fill my tanks every week for two years using one of those self draining hoses that has a smaller line and puts extra pressure on the water, however never experience anything like what Exhumed is going through.
Here's another source with some good graphics that put Illinois (along with the rest of farm country) ground water at high risk for nitrate contamination. This site defines that as an area of 9 to 24 percent of wells that exceed drinking standards. So he basically has a 1 in 4 shot of having a bad well.
National look at nitrate contamination of Ground Water
Exhumed, do you know the depth of your well? It seems the depth has a bit to do with the level of possible contamination.
FWIW that first site I gave from the IEPA has a number that you can call to get your well tested. You may want to think about doing that.
Well Water Testing
Tap water can be high in nitrate too. Mine comes in around 10ppm and I have used hoses to fill my tanks every week for two years using one of those self draining hoses that has a smaller line and puts extra pressure on the water, however never experience anything like what Exhumed is going through.
Here's another source with some good graphics that put Illinois (along with the rest of farm country) ground water at high risk for nitrate contamination. This site defines that as an area of 9 to 24 percent of wells that exceed drinking standards. So he basically has a 1 in 4 shot of having a bad well.
National look at nitrate contamination of Ground Water
Exhumed, do you know the depth of your well? It seems the depth has a bit to do with the level of possible contamination.
FWIW that first site I gave from the IEPA has a number that you can call to get your well tested. You may want to think about doing that.
I tested with a test kit and my tank test kit comes out at 0ppm. and my well is 556 feet. also i'm not agreeing that it is nitrogen trapped in the water. i'm just saying some gas. for all we know it could be xenon neon or oxygen. I'm exagerating with the first 2 but u get my point. and i know a town 10 miles away thats inside the mississippi river valley have lead, sulfer, and nitrogen in their water. but their water comes from the river and seeps into the ground so there is alot of farm runoff as well as other problems. i think my aunts well is 30 feet deep. and i know when we had to deepen our well, cause the water table dropped, our aquafer is in a coal bed. i don't recall our family ever testing our water but we know of some local people not to far away testing cause of the baby thing, we never heard anything bad about it. and in a small town of about 90 people, if there was an issue it wouldn't take long for news to get around.
Fishdad i will give them a call and see about having the water tested on monday. I've honestly never thought about it. also i've been keeping fish for about 12 years now and it was only recently that i had that issue.
Also i don't want anyone to think i'm blowing off things or in denial about this stuff that has been mentioned. I am listening
Fishdad i will give them a call and see about having the water tested on monday. I've honestly never thought about it. also i've been keeping fish for about 12 years now and it was only recently that i had that issue.
Also i don't want anyone to think i'm blowing off things or in denial about this stuff that has been mentioned. I am listening
That's pretty deep. You should be free and clear of contaminants. Before you call them you should read this article I just found. It might give you some good questions to ask - pretty frightening really. It talks about geological elements and chemicals that can leach into a deep well too.
It's elemental: Many private wells across U.S. are contaminated with arsenic and other elements — Environmental Health News
I wonder if something could have changed geologically in your area. Fracking or blasting or something.
Here's something you could try in the mean time if your up for it. Buy some distilled water and pump it water into the same tank with a guppy or two. Try to recreate the same scenario with purified water and see if you get the same results. That will tell us a lot.
It's elemental: Many private wells across U.S. are contaminated with arsenic and other elements — Environmental Health News
I wonder if something could have changed geologically in your area. Fracking or blasting or something.
Here's something you could try in the mean time if your up for it. Buy some distilled water and pump it water into the same tank with a guppy or two. Try to recreate the same scenario with purified water and see if you get the same results. That will tell us a lot.
20 miles isn't that far. When it comes to what blasting can do to well water the possibilities are endless. Who knows what underground streams exist at those depths.
I worked with some fracking guys here in Cleveland actually. They were shipped in to help us on our tunnel project. We are drilling 40' wide tunnels over 200' below the surface, even underneath lake Erie. I was only there to pour sidewalks for the workers to walk on but they tell me that they are making well over 100K. Not a family mans gig though, they work 7/10's. Check this out ...
That's 200' below ground. The hole is 40' wide. Freaked me out to be down there.
I worked with some fracking guys here in Cleveland actually. They were shipped in to help us on our tunnel project. We are drilling 40' wide tunnels over 200' below the surface, even underneath lake Erie. I was only there to pour sidewalks for the workers to walk on but they tell me that they are making well over 100K. Not a family mans gig though, they work 7/10's. Check this out ...
That's 200' below ground. The hole is 40' wide. Freaked me out to be down there.
if i recall this aquafer goes all the way to the great lakes. it covers about half the eastern great plaines.
As for the fracking my brother consistanly pulls 90 hour weeks. last week he was on site for 57 hours getting 5-10 min naps when he could in the truck. he has a new baby boy that was born in april. he is planning on doing this for a couple years when he wont remember that dad is gone so long. save up enough money to get a good house paid for and get all setup. which i think is a good plan. I just have a gf and she is up for it if i can get the job. so maybe. but then again my uncle is starting up a masonry company which is what i went to school for so i might try to get work with him.
But in any event i'll have my water checked out and see if there is anything odd or bad with it.
As for the fracking my brother consistanly pulls 90 hour weeks. last week he was on site for 57 hours getting 5-10 min naps when he could in the truck. he has a new baby boy that was born in april. he is planning on doing this for a couple years when he wont remember that dad is gone so long. save up enough money to get a good house paid for and get all setup. which i think is a good plan. I just have a gf and she is up for it if i can get the job. so maybe. but then again my uncle is starting up a masonry company which is what i went to school for so i might try to get work with him.
But in any event i'll have my water checked out and see if there is anything odd or bad with it.